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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On January 19 2018 08:41 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 08:25 Doodsmack wrote:On January 19 2018 08:09 Danglars wrote:On January 19 2018 07:13 Plansix wrote:On January 19 2018 06:59 Danglars wrote:On January 19 2018 06:39 Gorsameth wrote:On January 19 2018 06:32 Danglars wrote:On January 19 2018 06:17 Doodsmack wrote:
Adding to Mueller’s obstruction case files. The House investigation is different from the Mueller investigation. House holds him in contempt if they feel like it. Doodsmack's point (I assume) is that if there is going to be a charge for Obstruction of Justice this will be one of many examples given where Trump tried to undermine the investigations running against him. That fits no legal definition of obstruction of justice. Trying to overrule a claim for executive privilege is a very different thing. It would be supporting evidence to prove the president’s mind set to hinder the investigation. The Mueller investigation is not being run through Congress. He has not done so (to my knowledge) in the Mueller investigation, and its reported that Bannon will freely answer Mueller’s deputies. He can assert it freely to protect executive branch rights, under separation of powers, without worry. It’s up to Congress to prove that it doesn’t apply. Considering that Mueller requested documents on Trump’s efforts to blunt the media stories on Don Jr’s meeting it seems that he might be interested in anything related to blocking information regarding the issue. Certainly not proof of obstruction in itself. But I’ll bet it will be collected by Mueller. The key phrase is “Mueller requested documents,” which is different than “Congress subpoenaed testimony.” The second one has no bearing on obstruction of justice. We have a great deal more precedent on justice department/independent counsel vs executive privilege, even if obstruction of justice is still a high bar to clear in that case (look at statute to see).
I’m saying that if Mueller requested documents on Trumps media statement re the Don Jr meeting, and he requested those documents for an obstruction investigation, that too seems unrelated to Trump obstructing a legal investigation; Trump would only be “obstructing” a media “investigation” in that instance. So it seems conceivable that Mueller would request documents on the seemingly unrelated issue of Trump’s actions with Congressional investigations. In the end we are both speculating I guess.
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On January 19 2018 08:53 Introvert wrote:
Earlier tweet, but I like the honesty here:
Well now it is the case, if the gov shuts down its harder to put it on the R
Before the Fcaucus was on board dems could argue that is what not them doing it
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On January 19 2018 09:02 IyMoon wrote:Well now it is the case, if the gov shuts down its harder to put it on the R Before the Fcaucus was on board dems could argue that is what not them doing it
It's still not them doing it. It takes a simple majority. Republicans have a simple majority. There is no reason democrats need to get onboard just because Republicans can't get their whole party in line. That's just the incompetence of the Republican whip.
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On January 19 2018 09:13 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:02 IyMoon wrote:Well now it is the case, if the gov shuts down its harder to put it on the R Before the Fcaucus was on board dems could argue that is what not them doing it It's still not them doing it. It takes a simple majority. Republicans have a simple majority. There is no reason democrats need to get onboard just because Republicans can't get their whole party in line. That's just the incompetence of the Republican whip.
I thought they needed 60 for the CR?
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So did they get defense spending or entitlement cuts in exchange? My moneys on: they buckled for peanuts to put this on Dems and go to bat again in a couple months.
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Doesn't he know that states' rights is a dog whistle? For shame!
Meanwhile of course complying with the feds on federal immigration law is not cool therefore we need sanctuary states to prevent even private citizens or businesses from cooperating.
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On January 19 2018 09:18 Danglars wrote:So did they get defense spending or entitlement cuts in exchange? My moneys on: they buckled for peanuts to put this on Dems and go to bat again in a couple months.
Meadows got a call from Trump, they live in Trumpy districts. I think that plus what you mentioned is important. They are worried about PR, and perhaps they think there is a DACA deal they could get behind coming later if fire is sustained on the Democrats.
I mean we have Democrats going to bat for non-citizens after telling us how awful and terrible government shutdowns are. It's hilarious if the GOP can message right.
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On January 19 2018 09:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:13 Acrofales wrote:On January 19 2018 09:02 IyMoon wrote:Well now it is the case, if the gov shuts down its harder to put it on the R Before the Fcaucus was on board dems could argue that is what not them doing it It's still not them doing it. It takes a simple majority. Republicans have a simple majority. There is no reason democrats need to get onboard just because Republicans can't get their whole party in line. That's just the incompetence of the Republican whip. I thought they needed 60 for the CR?
Its a regular spending bill. 60 to clear the senate to break filibuster.
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Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes.
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On January 19 2018 09:19 Introvert wrote:Doesn't he know that states' rights is a dog whistle? For shame! Meanwhile of course complying with the feds on federal immigration law is not cool therefore we need sanctuary states to prevent even private citizens or businesses from cooperating.
not sure how that point on sanctuary states makes sense given the actual legalities involved, and the typical actual case of a "sanctuary" state.
doesn't matter much though, your post sounds mostly to be humorous.
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On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes.
You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad.
I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more."
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On January 19 2018 09:30 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:19 Introvert wrote:Doesn't he know that states' rights is a dog whistle? For shame! Meanwhile of course complying with the feds on federal immigration law is not cool therefore we need sanctuary states to prevent even private citizens or businesses from cooperating. not sure how that point on sanctuary states makes sense given the actual legalities involved, and the typical actual case of a "sanctuary" state.
The Democrats believe that the federal government is supreme in immigration until they don't, so they then pass sanctuary laws.
And the AG of CA just said this:
The state’s top cop issued a warning to California employers Thursday that businesses face legal repercussions, including fines up to $10,000, if they assist federal immigration authorities with a potential widespread immigration crackdown.
“It’s important, given these rumors that are out there, to let people know – more specifically today, employers – that if they voluntarily start giving up information about their employees or access to their employees in ways that contradict our new California laws, they subject themselves to actions by my office,” state Attorney General Xavier Becerra said at a news conference. “We will prosecute those who violate the law.”
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article195434409.html
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On January 19 2018 09:31 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes. You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad. I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more."
do you have a citation for that? (this cr being clean, and the dems opposing it)
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On January 19 2018 09:31 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes. You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad. I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more."
But since Trump blew up the deal he said he would sign, the democrats dont trust that it will get done. And they don’t trust this funding measure because the conservatives in the house pushed Trump to kill the deal. They don’t get to kill the Durbin deal and then offer some garbage in exchange.
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On January 19 2018 09:34 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:31 Introvert wrote:On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes. You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad. I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more." do you have a citation for that? (this cr being clean, and the dems opposing it)
It's clean, it contains no DACA language. Which is the issue the Dems are up in arms about.
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On January 19 2018 09:37 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:34 zlefin wrote:On January 19 2018 09:31 Introvert wrote:On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes. You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad. I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more." do you have a citation for that? (this cr being clean, and the dems opposing it) It's clean, it contains no DACA language. Which is the issue the Dems are up in arms about.
Yep, because how conservatives killed the deal by telling the president to shoot it down. Conservatives are never going to let DACA pass, so the Democrats aren’t going to vote for their CR.
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On January 19 2018 09:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:31 Introvert wrote:On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes. You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad. I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more." But since Trump blew up the deal he said he would sign, the democrats dont trust that it will get done. And they don’t trust this funding measure because the conservatives in the house pushed Trump to kill the deal. They don’t get to kill the Durbin deal and then offer some garbage in exchange.
It wasn't just the House that killed that horrendous compromise. Trump was being Trumpy when he said he trusted the people in the room. As even this thread knew, the deal was all Democrat wants and fig leaves for the 3 GOP amnesty lovers that were part of the "gang of six."
But sure, that destroyed all hope. Now the only option is to demand even more from Republicans while giving up nothing.
On January 19 2018 09:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:37 Introvert wrote:On January 19 2018 09:34 zlefin wrote:On January 19 2018 09:31 Introvert wrote:On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes. You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad. I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more." do you have a citation for that? (this cr being clean, and the dems opposing it) It's clean, it contains no DACA language. Which is the issue the Dems are up in arms about. Yep, because how conservatives killed the deal by telling the president to shoot it down. Conservatives are never going to let DACA pass, so the Democrats aren’t going to vote for their CR.
If there is real change to security and chain migration you bet your rear they would vote for it. And they can use Trump as cover too.
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So wait, why not vote for this? What's still in it that's shitty?
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On January 19 2018 09:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:35 Plansix wrote:On January 19 2018 09:31 Introvert wrote:On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes. You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad. I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more." But since Trump blew up the deal he said he would sign, the democrats dont trust that it will get done. And they don’t trust this funding measure because the conservatives in the house pushed Trump to kill the deal. They don’t get to kill the Durbin deal and then offer some garbage in exchange. It wasn't just the House that killed that horrendous compromise. Trump was being Trumpy when he said he trusted the people in the room. As even this thread knew, the deal was all Democrat wants and fig leaves for the 3 GOP amnesty lovers that were part of the "gang of six." But sure, that destroyed all hope. Now the only option is to demand even more from Republicans while giving up nothing. Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 09:39 Plansix wrote:On January 19 2018 09:37 Introvert wrote:On January 19 2018 09:34 zlefin wrote:On January 19 2018 09:31 Introvert wrote:On January 19 2018 09:25 Plansix wrote:
Last I checked Americans citizens overwhelming supported DACA. Trump and the conservatives are not the be trusted to follow through on any clean deal down the line, so this is how the popular program gets put back in place.
Edit: that is what I thought. The GOP has to compromise if they want democrat’s votes. You seem confused, this CR says nothing about DACA either way but the Democrats oppose it. A "clean" deal exactly what the Democrats want. They could fund everything for 3 more weeks while they continue to hash it out, but apparently that's bad. I am amused though how, without fail, no matter the circumstances, year after year, you can always come around to "it's the Republicans who have to give up more." do you have a citation for that? (this cr being clean, and the dems opposing it) It's clean, it contains no DACA language. Which is the issue the Dems are up in arms about. Yep, because how conservatives killed the deal by telling the president to shoot it down. Conservatives are never going to let DACA pass, so the Democrats aren’t going to vote for their CR. If there is real change to security and chain migration you bet your rear they would vote for it. And they can use Trump as cover too.
Basic negotiations man. Can't put a Coke on the shelf for $1 and then swap it for Prune Juice at the register and expect people to still buy it.
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EPT
