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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On January 19 2018 02:50 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 02:47 Simberto wrote:
Firstly, the POTUS lies basically whenever he opens his mouth. That is a problem.
No, he doesn't always lie. In general, politicians lie a lot. including the word "basically" is obfuscation.
Ok, i agree that that was slightly hyperbolic. I guess we can assume that he sometimes doesn't lie when talks.
However, we are talking about a man who claims that it doesn't rain while it does, in fact, rain. So i would say that the amount of lies by Trump is still a problem. Even if he does in fact sometimes not lie.
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On January 19 2018 02:43 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 02:34 Excludos wrote:On January 19 2018 02:32 IgnE wrote:On January 19 2018 01:33 KwarK wrote:
Firstly, obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it. And secondly, it's the lying about obesity that we're harping on here. We didn't see FDR lying about being in a wheelchair. damn kwark, "obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it." i thought you'd be down with body positivity Bit offtopic: It's entirely possible to be overweight and be fine with it. Doesn't mean it's not a objectively negative trait. I honestly wouldn't care too much about Trump being overweight if the rest of his health wasn't deteriorating and he keeps lying about it. so you're pointing out that not all fat people hate themselves for being fat? "yeah, you know if you're fine with it then you're fine with it, as long as we all agree that it's objectively negative, and otherwise undesirable." isn't this precisely an instance where the doctor says, "hey however much Trump weighs, he's in good, or even excellent, health." are we not to trust Obama's former doctor?
It's possible to be overweight and not have it be the end of the world. Few (none) are perfect. Some are fat, some smoke, some (me) still have pimples nearing the age of 30. It's not positive traits, but it doesn't mean you (or others) have to hate yourself for it. That is exactly what I said, yes. And if Trump just said "Yeah, I guess I got a bit of a belly" and he didn't show other signs of severe health deterioration, then no one would care (That said I do think the president is suppose to be a role model for the rest of the country, so him being in a good shape definitively would be a big plus). The problem is his constant lying about it!
And no, I don't trust "Obama's former doctor". I don't give a shit who he served before, the "doctor" obviously faked Trump's examination to the point of laughability. They didn't even try to hide it.
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On January 19 2018 02:52 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 02:38 NewSunshine wrote:
Because we all know about the looming threat of Mexican terror.
If I had to roll my eyes at that, they'd fall right out of my head. Your daily reminder that if Trump says something, you can safely and firmly believe exactly the opposite, and be ok. I don't know what planet he and his supporters live on. Mexico far and away leads the OECD for homicides, it's consumed by cartel violence - who exist because of drugs, the markets for which are also in the US - and government corruption. It's not a safe place and that is part of why people like to migrate north. It's not wise to incorporate into a worldview the reflex that nothing Trump says could have any overlap with the truth even if you dislike him.
To be far to Mexico, after decades of asking for them to take the fight to the drug cartels, they did it. And it has been a blood bath and still is. Most of the funding comes from selling drugs to the US. And our fire arms industry has supplied a healthy number of the guns too, though mostly illegal means. Many of the factors that allow the cartels to exist are well beyond Mexico’s control and at a scale they could never deal with.
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On January 19 2018 02:50 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 02:47 Simberto wrote:
Firstly, the POTUS lies basically whenever he opens his mouth. That is a problem.
No, he doesn't always lie. In general, politicians lie a lot. Some are better at not getting caught. including the word "basically" is obfuscation.
That is a shit defense and you know it. First off politicians doesn't actually lie a lot, but they keep their wordings purposely obtuse and hold back information. That can be as bad as lying at times, but mostly it's to keep their ass safe in case someone calls them out on it. If you lie, you're wrong, but if you're just obtuse, you can say "Well I didn't really say/mean that". And it also let's them change their minds on a subject later if they desire.
Trump lies, on basically everything. According to politifact, his "Mostly false", "False" and "pants on fire" comments combine makes up 69%(!!) of everything he's stated. That's fucking ridiculous. Compared to Obama who's same number is 26% (And only 2% are outright pants on fire lies while in Trump's case it's 15%). This isn't a case of "politicians lie a lot", it's a case of "If I woke up and Trump told me the sky was blue, I'd bring an umbrella".
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On January 19 2018 02:54 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 02:43 IgnE wrote:On January 19 2018 02:34 Excludos wrote:On January 19 2018 02:32 IgnE wrote:On January 19 2018 01:33 KwarK wrote:
Firstly, obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it. And secondly, it's the lying about obesity that we're harping on here. We didn't see FDR lying about being in a wheelchair. damn kwark, "obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it." i thought you'd be down with body positivity Bit offtopic: It's entirely possible to be overweight and be fine with it. Doesn't mean it's not a objectively negative trait. I honestly wouldn't care too much about Trump being overweight if the rest of his health wasn't deteriorating and he keeps lying about it. so you're pointing out that not all fat people hate themselves for being fat? "yeah, you know if you're fine with it then you're fine with it, as long as we all agree that it's objectively negative, and otherwise undesirable." isn't this precisely an instance where the doctor says, "hey however much Trump weighs, he's in good, or even excellent, health." are we not to trust Obama's former doctor? It's possible to be overweight and not have it be the end of the world. Few (none) are perfect. Some are fat, some smoke, some (me) still have pimples nearing the age of 30. It's not positive traits, but it doesn't mean you (or others) have to hate yourself for it. That is exactly what I said, yes. And if Trump just said "Yeah, I guess I got a bit of a belly" and he didn't show other signs of severe health deterioration, then no one would care (That said I do think the president is suppose to be a role model for the rest of the country, so him being in a good shape definitively would be a big plus). The problem is his constant lying about it! And no, I don't trust "Obama's former doctor". I don't give a shit who he served before, the "doctor" obviously faked Trump's examination to the point of laughability. They didn't even try to hide it.
You keep saying deteriorating and lying, what specifically did you see to that effect?
He's been consistent about saying he wants to lose a little weight although not following through, because he's not a fan of exercise, because it takes effort you could be spending on other things, and changing your diet is much easier because you have to eat anyway:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 19 2018 03:01 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 02:54 Excludos wrote:On January 19 2018 02:43 IgnE wrote:On January 19 2018 02:34 Excludos wrote:On January 19 2018 02:32 IgnE wrote:On January 19 2018 01:33 KwarK wrote:
Firstly, obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it. And secondly, it's the lying about obesity that we're harping on here. We didn't see FDR lying about being in a wheelchair. damn kwark, "obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it." i thought you'd be down with body positivity Bit offtopic: It's entirely possible to be overweight and be fine with it. Doesn't mean it's not a objectively negative trait. I honestly wouldn't care too much about Trump being overweight if the rest of his health wasn't deteriorating and he keeps lying about it. so you're pointing out that not all fat people hate themselves for being fat? "yeah, you know if you're fine with it then you're fine with it, as long as we all agree that it's objectively negative, and otherwise undesirable." isn't this precisely an instance where the doctor says, "hey however much Trump weighs, he's in good, or even excellent, health." are we not to trust Obama's former doctor? It's possible to be overweight and not have it be the end of the world. Few (none) are perfect. Some are fat, some smoke, some (me) still have pimples nearing the age of 30. It's not positive traits, but it doesn't mean you (or others) have to hate yourself for it. That is exactly what I said, yes. And if Trump just said "Yeah, I guess I got a bit of a belly" and he didn't show other signs of severe health deterioration, then no one would care (That said I do think the president is suppose to be a role model for the rest of the country, so him being in a good shape definitively would be a big plus). The problem is his constant lying about it! And no, I don't trust "Obama's former doctor". I don't give a shit who he served before, the "doctor" obviously faked Trump's examination to the point of laughability. They didn't even try to hide it. You keep saying deteriorating and lying, what specifically did you see to that effect? He's been consistent about saying he wants to lose a little weight although not following through, because he's not a fan of exercise, because it takes effort you could be spending on other things, and changing your diet is much easier because you have to eat anyway: + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uHgc-Ma1Uo
First off you're linking to Dr. Oz. That should be an immediate red flag to anyone. I'm not going to watch the video simply because I like having hair on my scalp, but I'll take your words for Trump saying he wants to lose weight. Hey that's a good thing! Not following through on it on the other hand doesn't..but again I wouldn't really hold it against him if he didn't lie all the time.
Now for the first question:
When I say his health is deteriorating, I'm mostly focusing on his mental health. While nothing is confirmed, he's starting to get some weird habits which indicates Alzheimer; constantly repeating himself, loss of motor functions, not able to do simple tasks like drinking water, etc. There have been a multitude of articles about this, and it doesn't help that Trump as an answer proclaimed himself a "stable genius" (in the midst of a bunch of gibberish mind you). A stable person or a genius would never state anything along those lines.
Then there's the healthcheck itself:
“It is called genetics ... ” Jackson said. “Some people have just great genes. I told the president that if he had a healthier diet over the last 20 years, he might live to be 200 years old.”
Does this seem in any way even related to reality to you? Trump in "excellent" shape despite being greatly overweight, "might have lived to 200 years old". This is North Korea levels of ridiculousness. And of course Trump suddenly grew in size because, quite randomly, if he was one inch shorter he would be considered "obese". This isn't a health checkup, this is a farce attempting to cover up a serious concern.
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Politicians lie about as much as attorneys lie + Show Spoiler +(most of them are attorneys. The joke is good, don’t @ me)
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On January 19 2018 02:43 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 02:34 Excludos wrote:On January 19 2018 02:32 IgnE wrote:On January 19 2018 01:33 KwarK wrote:
Firstly, obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it. And secondly, it's the lying about obesity that we're harping on here. We didn't see FDR lying about being in a wheelchair. damn kwark, "obesity is a negative trait, no matter how you paint it." i thought you'd be down with body positivity Bit offtopic: It's entirely possible to be overweight and be fine with it. Doesn't mean it's not a objectively negative trait. I honestly wouldn't care too much about Trump being overweight if the rest of his health wasn't deteriorating and he keeps lying about it. so you're pointing out that not all fat people hate themselves for being fat? "yeah, you know if you're fine with it then you're fine with it, as long as we all agree that it's objectively negative, and otherwise undesirable." isn't this precisely an instance where the doctor says, "hey however much Trump weighs, he's in good, or even excellent, health." are we not to trust Obama's former doctor?
You can be obese and be fine with it. You cannot be obese and healthy.
Just as people can have cancer and be fine with it.
If "objectively negative" in the context of health is "unhealthy" then being obese is "objectively negative".
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On January 19 2018 01:48 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 01:14 Doodsmack wrote:
Trump has taken at least three different positions recently on what legislation he would be willing to sign when t comes to DACA. I wonder what's really keeping the incompetent senate GOP in McConnell and Graham from managing to achieve one of those options.
Those two also have to contend with the Democrats, who are empowered by Trump’s flip flopping. Some of Trump’s conflicting positions on this issue favor the Democrats.
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They did exactly what Trump asked for and he shot it down. The leadership can’t do much if the conservative wing is willing to undercut any deal they make.
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Would it not be amazing if we had a form of Government that if it failed to fund itself new elections would happen?
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Right now the House basically has all the disadvantages of having three parties without any of the benefits of it, where the smallest party is hell-bent on not giving an inch to the plurality one (okay, I'm not actually sure if the non-Freedom Caucus R's are bigger than the Democrats, but whatever).
Two and a Half Parties sitcom when?
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You can’t have a faction of a political party whose sole purpose is to make sure no one can work with the opposing party. Well you can, but at some point the lights turn off. It is why the RINO thing is so funny. Or calling some senators “not real conservatives” because they dare to work with Democrats.
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it's one of my considered constitutional amendments, in its harshest version at least; I don't mind having a super harsh system when it comes to this.
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On January 19 2018 02:42 JimmyJRaynor wrote:it was bad having two 70 year olds run for Prez. you know their future health will be a big concern. even if a 70 year old is in very good health any prognosticator looking to score points has a safe bet proclaiming their health will experience a sharp decline. Reagan was dogged by the "Iran Contra" affair and responded with "i don't remember" ... his "i don't remember" was met with heavy skepticism.... by 1988 he truly didn't remember... hell, he couldn't remember anything. 
Reagan was a good president internationally though. Beating communism is good.
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Reagan didn't beat communism, communism beat communism. Where did you learn otherwise?
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Even America public schools don’t teach that, which is staying a lot.
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Reagan had the arms race but that was simply the last straw that broke the grand internationals back.
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On January 19 2018 05:27 farvacola wrote:
Reagan didn't beat communism, communism beat communism. Where did you learn otherwise?
How long could’ve the Soviet Union have limped along with their powerful military and coercion? That part is very much disputed and Reagan’s role is underrated by most liberals I talk to.
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United States42656 Posts
On January 19 2018 05:53 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 05:27 farvacola wrote:
Reagan didn't beat communism, communism beat communism. Where did you learn otherwise? How long could’ve the Soviet Union have limped along with their powerful military and coercion? That part is very much disputed and Reagan’s role is underrated by most liberals I talk to.
They still had a powerful military when they collapsed. Nobody was predicting the fall of the Berlin Wall before it happened.
It collapsed because the will to keep it together through force collapsed. Ideological bankruptcy.
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EPT
