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On July 29 2017 07:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Trump's apparently impressed by the Duterte mode of policing
Hes praised him multiple times and invited him to come visit the White House.
We know he likes him. We know he likes most Authoritarians.
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The Trump administration would be pretty scary if they were more competent.
He makes it quite clear that he doesn't actually want to be president, he wants to be dictator. The constant dumpster fire is probably the result of him figuring out that president does not actually mean dictator, and that he can not in fact do whatever he likes. We see a man who has never had to deal with things not going his way before freak out once he notices that he can't control everything just by being rich and a bully.
If things keep going like they currently do, he might even have to realize that he is not as smart as he thinks he is. But i am pretty sure he will keep finding a way to blame others for his failure to achieve basically anything he wanted to when becoming president, and especially to actually improve things. But i might be wrong, maybe he is fine with presiding over a dumpster fire while leeching money into his own pockets.
No matter, we should probably be thankful for his incompetence.
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On July 29 2017 06:59 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 06:56 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 06:21 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 06:14 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine". A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it. if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse. I didn't forget about you buddy. Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik. People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect. their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense. i never said get rid of the FDA . . . You're advocating for people taking substances for health purposes that are entirely unregulated based upon "rational people would have known there were risks" to consuming supplements. At the very least that's bypassing the FDA. i shouldnt have to repeat this but i am asking for STRICTER controls. I want the bottle to contain what it says it contains. right now its the wild fucking west. insofar as you think adults shouldnt be allowed to take plant extracts if they want to, i think thats nuts. bodily autonomy Sure, bodily autonomy. But then we should still be clearly telling them what they are taking. Not trying to sneak by hazardous materials without informing them you know? And not by just putting the latin name on the label. But on actual possible side effects.
sure ok. i dont have a problem w that
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Where did this strange idea that RP was the only one keeping Sessions around come from?
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On July 29 2017 07:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Trump's apparently impressed by the Duterte mode of policing
Davou City used to be the criminal cesspool of the Philippines. Today it's one of their safest cities thanks to Duerte. Would you prefer the limp-wristed Obama approach to stopping violent crime?
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On July 29 2017 07:32 Lionsguard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 07:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Trump's apparently impressed by the Duterte mode of policing Davou City used to be the criminal cesspool of the Philippines. Today it's one of their safest cities thanks to Duerte. Would you prefer the limp-wristed Obama approach to stopping violent crime?
Yes
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On July 29 2017 07:32 Lionsguard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 07:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Trump's apparently impressed by the Duterte mode of policing Davou City used to be the criminal cesspool of the Philippines. Today it's one of their safest cities thanks to Duerte. Would you prefer the limp-wristed Obama approach to stopping violent crime?
yes; because it's vastly superior. most parts of the US aren't in the kind of position bad enough to possibly justify that level of extreme action as occurred in davao.
limp-wristed also sounds like you just have a bias and don't understand the actual realities of dealing with crime all that well.
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Looks like his ex-wife isn't trying to suck his dick either.
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On July 29 2017 07:32 Lionsguard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 07:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Trump's apparently impressed by the Duterte mode of policing Davou City used to be the criminal cesspool of the Philippines. Today it's one of their safest cities thanks to Duerte. Would you prefer the limp-wristed Obama approach to stopping violent crime? The Magna Carta, clause 39 from 1215 which establishes Due Process and most of Western civilization since says "yes, we do".
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United States44286 Posts
On July 29 2017 06:56 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 06:21 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 06:14 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.
personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis. The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine". A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it. if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse. I didn't forget about you buddy. Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik. People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect. their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense. i never said get rid of the FDA . . . You're advocating for people taking substances for health purposes that are entirely unregulated based upon "rational people would have known there were risks" to consuming supplements. At the very least that's bypassing the FDA. i shouldnt have to repeat this but i am asking for STRICTER controls. I want the bottle to contain what it says it contains. right now its the wild fucking west. insofar as you think adults shouldnt be allowed to take plant extracts if they want to, i think thats nuts. bodily autonomy
We've never allowed companies to avoid responsibility for what people do with their products before, not sure why you think we should start now. If you sell a dangerous product you can't hide behind "bodily autonomy" and insist that if one of your customers gets hurt then clearly they made a deliberate choice to exercise their autonomy through hurting themselves.
As for "plant extracts", chemicals are chemicals. Slapping a "ALL NATURAL" sticker on the side of the bottle doesn't change the contents, it shouldn't change the legality.
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United States44286 Posts
On July 29 2017 07:35 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 07:32 Lionsguard wrote:On July 29 2017 07:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Trump's apparently impressed by the Duterte mode of policing Davou City used to be the criminal cesspool of the Philippines. Today it's one of their safest cities thanks to Duerte. Would you prefer the limp-wristed Obama approach to stopping violent crime? Yes
Obviously yes lol. All the Philippines has done is hand badges to the criminals and legalize murder. That's not a reduction in violent crime, that's a reduction in enforcement.
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On July 29 2017 07:44 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 06:56 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 06:21 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 06:14 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine". A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it. if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse. I didn't forget about you buddy. Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik. People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect. their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense. i never said get rid of the FDA . . . You're advocating for people taking substances for health purposes that are entirely unregulated based upon "rational people would have known there were risks" to consuming supplements. At the very least that's bypassing the FDA. i shouldnt have to repeat this but i am asking for STRICTER controls. I want the bottle to contain what it says it contains. right now its the wild fucking west. insofar as you think adults shouldnt be allowed to take plant extracts if they want to, i think thats nuts. bodily autonomy We've never allowed companies to avoid responsibility for what people do with their products before, not sure why you think we should start now. If you sell a dangerous product you can't hide behind "bodily autonomy" and insist that if one of your customers gets hurt then clearly they made a deliberate choice to exercise their autonomy through hurting themselves. As for "plant extracts", chemicals are chemicals. Slapping a "ALL NATURAL" sticker on the side of the bottle doesn't change the contents, it shouldn't change the legality.
Indeed. If i buy something in a store, and use it the way it i am supposed to, it should not kill me. If there is the danger that it might kill me, it should definitively tell me so, very clearly.
If i use it in some incredibly stupid way that it was never thought to be used as (like eating batteries or something like that), and then get killed by it, that is obviously a different situation.
And i am very often amazed by the very persistent idea that if something is "natural" (whatever that even means), it can not be dangerous, and is actually good for you. Belladonna is natural. Fly Amanita is natural. Poison dart frogs are natural. Rattlesnakes are all natural. Death cap is natural. Anthrax is all natural too.
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On July 29 2017 07:44 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 06:56 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 06:21 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 06:14 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine". A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it. if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse. I didn't forget about you buddy. Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik. People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect. their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense. i never said get rid of the FDA . . . You're advocating for people taking substances for health purposes that are entirely unregulated based upon "rational people would have known there were risks" to consuming supplements. At the very least that's bypassing the FDA. i shouldnt have to repeat this but i am asking for STRICTER controls. I want the bottle to contain what it says it contains. right now its the wild fucking west. insofar as you think adults shouldnt be allowed to take plant extracts if they want to, i think thats nuts. bodily autonomy We've never allowed companies to avoid responsibility for what people do with their products before, not sure why you think we should start now. If you sell a dangerous product you can't hide behind "bodily autonomy" and insist that if one of your customers gets hurt then clearly they made a deliberate choice to exercise their autonomy through hurting themselves. As for "plant extracts", chemicals are chemicals. Slapping a "ALL NATURAL" sticker on the side of the bottle doesn't change the contents, it shouldn't change the legality.
Didn't someone just post how cigarettes kill half of it's users if used as intended?
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Pretty sure Igne doesn't have a problem with the label telling you it will fucking kill you, like a pack of cigarettes does here. It will kill me, but i can buy it if i want to. Anyways he was talking about that many of those products don't actually have what they advertise on the label.
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On July 29 2017 07:44 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 06:56 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 06:21 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 06:14 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine". A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it. if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse. I didn't forget about you buddy. Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik. People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect. their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense. i never said get rid of the FDA . . . You're advocating for people taking substances for health purposes that are entirely unregulated based upon "rational people would have known there were risks" to consuming supplements. At the very least that's bypassing the FDA. i shouldnt have to repeat this but i am asking for STRICTER controls. I want the bottle to contain what it says it contains. right now its the wild fucking west. insofar as you think adults shouldnt be allowed to take plant extracts if they want to, i think thats nuts. bodily autonomy We've never allowed companies to avoid responsibility for what people do with their products before, not sure why you think we should start now. If you sell a dangerous product you can't hide behind "bodily autonomy" and insist that if one of your customers gets hurt then clearly they made a deliberate choice to exercise their autonomy through hurting themselves. As for "plant extracts", chemicals are chemicals. Slapping a "ALL NATURAL" sticker on the side of the bottle doesn't change the contents, it shouldn't change the legality.
this is beyond obvious but "legality" is a social construction not a transcendental imperative. calling something "chemicals" widespread yet only something i ever see from people who have no understanding of biochemistry
yeah there are consumer protection laws but the whole pharmaceutical industry is built on telling people that drug X will fix their problem without worrying too much about the potential side effects. that it comes w a doctor's orders isnt much of a safeguard.
food is chemicals too but i dont see too much concern over marking products with high fructose corn syrup that the added HFCS is contributing to their early mortality and deteriorating their quality of life in numerous ways from weight gain to hormonal changes to sensory perception.
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On July 29 2017 07:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2017 07:44 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 06:56 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 06:21 KwarK wrote:On July 29 2017 06:14 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
[quote]
A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it. if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse. I didn't forget about you buddy. Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik. People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect. their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense. i never said get rid of the FDA . . . You're advocating for people taking substances for health purposes that are entirely unregulated based upon "rational people would have known there were risks" to consuming supplements. At the very least that's bypassing the FDA. i shouldnt have to repeat this but i am asking for STRICTER controls. I want the bottle to contain what it says it contains. right now its the wild fucking west. insofar as you think adults shouldnt be allowed to take plant extracts if they want to, i think thats nuts. bodily autonomy We've never allowed companies to avoid responsibility for what people do with their products before, not sure why you think we should start now. If you sell a dangerous product you can't hide behind "bodily autonomy" and insist that if one of your customers gets hurt then clearly they made a deliberate choice to exercise their autonomy through hurting themselves. As for "plant extracts", chemicals are chemicals. Slapping a "ALL NATURAL" sticker on the side of the bottle doesn't change the contents, it shouldn't change the legality. Didn't someone just post how cigarettes kill half of it's users if used as intended?
Which is why in parts(most/all?) of Europe it is required to mention that on the label.
Which is what we are talking about.
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On July 29 2017 08:01 Godwrath wrote:
Pretty sure Igne doesn't have a problem with the label telling you it will fucking kill you, like a pack of cigarettes does here. It will kill me, but i can buy it if i want to. Anyways he was talking about that many of those products don't actually have what they advertise in the label.
Yeah, I mean both Tobacco Products and Alcohol products are not required to tell you what is in them either. But my point was more to the whole not letting people sell products intended (or unavoidably, depending on your perspective) to kill people.
Admittedly it's a reasonably short list of products that so efficiently kill it's consumers and avoid being banned.
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