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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8243

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-28 20:56:31
July 28 2017 20:56 GMT
#164841
Lol Reince Priebus just got fired over twitter. Knew he wouldn't last the month.

Sessions next?
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11519 Posts
July 28 2017 20:56 GMT
#164842
On July 29 2017 05:20 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 04:57 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
found this gem


From the perspective of human traffickers, this is technically true.

Maybe it's not the worst it's ever been, but isn't it pretty bad, particularly in south-east Asia with the sex trade and sex tourism?
ModeratorDavid Duke, Richard Spencer, Nick Fuentes, Daily Stormer... "Some very fine people on both sides"
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
July 28 2017 21:01 GMT
#164843


The dumpster fire continues to burn.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9057 Posts
July 28 2017 21:01 GMT
#164844
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump has selected John Kelly as his new White House chief of staff, replacing Reince Priebus.

"I am pleased to inform you that I have just named General/Secretary John F Kelly as White House Chief of Staff. He is a Great American...." Trump tweeted.
This story is breaking and will be updated.

Source
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
July 28 2017 21:03 GMT
#164845
announced via tweet, on airforce one, when priebus was probably right next to him.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 28 2017 21:05 GMT
#164846
Hopefully the firing of Priebus means that Trump is ready to stop playing footsies with the GOP Establishment and actually start pushing his agenda.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9057 Posts
July 28 2017 21:05 GMT
#164847
On July 29 2017 06:03 ticklishmusic wrote:
announced via tweet, on airforce one, when priebus was probably right next to him.

Again, your sig is perfect for this moment.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11519 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-28 21:10:41
July 28 2017 21:08 GMT
#164848
So I know he has the reputation of firing people because of his TV show, but did he actually run his businesses like that? It seems like it would be difficult to gather together a team of competent and enterprising staff, or maybe he can one-man-show his businesses? Like, I know in certain industries there is a group of basically unemployable labourers that cycle through many many jobs because they won't stop stealing, lying, being lazy, and/or taking drugs while on the job. On the otherhand, there's certain small businesses where there is a revolving door of employees and none but the most stubborn survive. At that point, you start thinking, it's probably not the employees, it's probably the boss. (Particularly once you hear the horror stories from the surviving employees- that the business actually runs better when the boss isn't around.) A reputation for firing isn't a good thing per se unless you also have a reputation for finding and keeping the best of the best and these best of the best of the best stay with you forever. I'm not convinced we've seen the latter part in Trump's cabinet as of yet.
ModeratorDavid Duke, Richard Spencer, Nick Fuentes, Daily Stormer... "Some very fine people on both sides"
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
July 28 2017 21:09 GMT
#164849
On July 29 2017 04:57 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
found this gem

https://twitter.com/AriMelber/status/891004732470431745

technically speaking there's a "maybe" in there!

"maybe this was the biggest crowd we have ever had at an inauguration" would have had a different ring to it as well
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
July 28 2017 21:10 GMT
#164850
Sessions is so toast. Priebus was the only thing keeping him afloat.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-28 21:13:34
July 28 2017 21:10 GMT
#164851
On July 29 2017 06:08 Falling wrote:
So I know he has the reputation of firing people because of his TV show, but did he actually run his businesses like that? It seems like it would be difficult to gather together a team of competent and enterprising staff, or maybe he can one-man-show his businesses? Like, I know in certain industries there is a group of basically unemployable labourers that cycle through many many jobs because until they won't stop stealing, lying, being lazy, and/or taking drugs while on the job. On the otherhand, there's certain small businesses where there is a revolving door of employees and none but the most stubborn survive. At that point, you start thinking, it's probably not the employees, it's probably the boss. (Particularly once you hear the horror stories from the surviving employees- that the business actually runs better when the boss isn't around.) A reputation for firing isn't a good thing perse unless you also have a reputation for finding and keeping the best of the best and these best of the best of the best stay with you forever. I'm not convinced we've seen the latter part in Trump's cabinet as of yet.

he did run his businesses a lot like this, at least from what I've heard about them.
his businesses weren't that successful on the whole.
but he probably didn't need to fire people quite this fast, as without the scrutiny of high office the churn rate would be somewhat lower. he'd still be a bad boss of course.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 28 2017 21:11 GMT
#164852
On July 29 2017 06:05 xDaunt wrote:
Hopefully the firing of Priebus means that Trump is ready to stop playing footsies with the GOP Establishment and actually start pushing his agenda.


And how would that be accomplished without any support in a country with separation of powers?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-28 21:23:15
July 28 2017 21:11 GMT
#164853
Scaramucchi's wife is filing for divorce due to her husbands naked political ambition.

http://pagesix.com/2017/07/28/anthony-scaramuccis-wife-files-for-divorce/
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 28 2017 21:13 GMT
#164854
On July 29 2017 05:38 mozoku wrote:
But anyway, Gorsameth's post and you both begged the question: what can we do besides point to "human nature" and call it a day? I hadn't discussed this until now because you don't propose a solution until the person you're talking to understands the problem (i.e. criticizing individual politicians is useless in most cases). I don't claim to have "the answers", but here is where I think a productive discussion might start. Others may disagree and that's fair.

1) It's well understood that society is not a bunch of un-influence-able, independent, rational actors, and that media has a gigantic effect on how society as a whole thinks and perceives things. Clearly, Fox News, Breitbart, internet echo chambers, the NYT taking sides in an election outside of their editorials, etc. are not good things for society. We can start by thinking of how to manage the massive media problem that America is currently facing.

2) The two-party system, and FPTP.

3) Perhaps campaign financing?

4) This is getting radical, but does the system that our Constitution established over 200 years ago even make sense anymore? The Founders wanted to have elected officials accountable to their constituents, but feared making them "too accountable", which is why they made the Electoral College and the Senate the way they did. The changes to those institutions to make them more electoral were maybe good ideas at the time, but with the current Twitter and 4-hour news cycle, does the current system still maintain the right (if any?) balance between politician independence and the whims of his constituents? Maybe analytics has made politics too efficient.

And there's a host of other productive discussions that could be had along those lines.


The human nature argument is more along the lines of "even if we had solutions for these problems, would people care or understand enough to want those solutions?" Which wraps back into party politics, ideologies, etc.

So really, the first target point is to create a voter base that properly cares about the issues and the people they are electing, and are willing to dig deeper than the TV ads and podium speeches.

1 and 3 are probably your most relevant points to this. The media ultimately provides content the masses want to see (whichever subset they're catering to). So you're back to improving the common person...not an easy task in the slightest, but general education improvements are a good step (and a mostly palatable one to the current voter base).

3 helps to cut the slogan and rhetoric that dilute election campaigns, but financing is really a much lesser issue compared the spending limits. Reducing financing would still favour certain individuals on merits other than the political ability or platform, whereas spending limits will (mostly) even the playing field and force politicians to be efficient in their messaging. And will hopefully force voters to do some research on their own.

2 Is always a tough barrier in political systems, but actually changing the electoral systems is a giant mountain to scale. Harder to change this than it is for 3rd parties to get footing, basically.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
July 28 2017 21:14 GMT
#164855
On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:
On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:
On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:
On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.

personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis.

The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine".

A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it.


if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse.

I didn't forget about you buddy.

Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik.

People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect.


their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales

Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense.



i never said get rid of the FDA . . .
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9057 Posts
July 28 2017 21:19 GMT
#164856
Anthony Scaramucci, the White House’s potty-mouthed new communications director, has been dumped by his beautiful blond wife because of his “naked political ambition,” multiple sources exclusively tell Page Six.

Deidre Ball, who worked as a vice president in investor relations for SkyBridge Capital, the firm he founded in 2005 and sold to ascend to the White House, has filed for divorce from “The Mooch” after three years of marriage after getting fed up with his ruthless quest to get close to President Trump, whom she despises.

One source told Page Six, “Deidre has left him and has filed for divorce. She liked the nice Wall Street life and their home on Long Island, not the insane world of D.C. She is tired of his naked ambition, which is so enormous that it left her at her wits’ end. She has left him even though they have two children together.”

Scaramucci and Ball, 38, began dating in 2011 and are believed to have married in 2014.

Source

Just added the snippet from Nevuk for those who don't wanna click.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45925 Posts
July 28 2017 21:19 GMT
#164857
On July 29 2017 05:56 On_Slaught wrote:
Lol Reince Priebus just got fired over twitter. Knew he wouldn't last the month.

Sessions next?


Probably, and I didn't expect RP to get let go yet. Pretty big imo.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9057 Posts
July 28 2017 21:19 GMT
#164858
On July 29 2017 06:14 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:
On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:
On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:
On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.

personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis.

The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine".

A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it.


if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse.

I didn't forget about you buddy.

Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik.

People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect.


their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales

Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense.



i never said get rid of the FDA . . .

I know. Wegandi did.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
July 28 2017 21:20 GMT
#164859
I'm surprised they found someone willing to take the job
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43989 Posts
July 28 2017 21:21 GMT
#164860
On July 29 2017 06:14 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 05:54 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 29 2017 05:31 IgnE wrote:
On July 29 2017 04:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 29 2017 03:09 IgnE wrote:
On July 29 2017 03:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 29 2017 02:59 KwarK wrote:
On July 29 2017 02:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
Well, it won't kill anyone by poisoning them, but on the other hand it could kill them with stupidity if they decide All-Natural Youth Elixir Made with 100% Organic Toad Feces is all they need to fight their coronary artery disease.

personally i could care less what particular thing is in a homeopathic product, whatever PPM is probably less total exposure than i get from breathing on a daily basis.

The supplement industry has killed people and at one point the FDA did try to bring it under control. Unfortunately the supplement industry bought enough politicians (and Mel Gibson oddly enough) to defend their Wild West of "technically we're not medicine".

A case that can be looked up now is Hydroxycut. Shit killed people. I used it before they got caught and I'm lucky it was only here and there that I used it.


if you had looked up the ingredients like a rational person you would have known there were risks. amphetamine derivatives/analogues were known to be in the pills. who buys random pills without researching the ingredients? hydroxycut is actually an example where they were selling what they advertised. the product worked. it just also happened to have a serious risk profile and be susceptible to abuse.

I didn't forget about you buddy.

Hydroxycut recalled their product and was off the market for a year because...? PEOPLE WERE DYING. They may have sold what they labeled, but that doesn't excuse the fact that without FDA oversight, they could put in whatever they wanted. "This product is not approved by the FDA" is what they have to put so that the FDA does not get sued. They fixed their formula and came back. Sales are still strong afaik.

People expect the shit they buy to not kill them. Having to do diligent research on everything you purchase is asinine to expect.


their new formula doesnt contain ephedra anymore. it wasn't fixed so much as rendered impotent. the product doesnt work anymore, despite the sales

Point is, that with the FDA gone, you'll get people prescribing and selling opiates as a cure to opiates. This happened at the turn of the 20th century. Doctors were prescribing cocaine to get rid of cocaine addiction. FDA was the result of that. As was stated previously, the process and institution could use an overhaul and streamlining effort, but to wish for it to be disbanded makes no sense.



i never said get rid of the FDA . . .

You're advocating for people taking substances for health purposes that are entirely unregulated based upon "rational people would have known there were risks" to consuming supplements.

At the very least that's bypassing the FDA.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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