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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:17:53
July 07 2016 16:16 GMT
#83621
Loaded questions for days in this hearing.

Though my biggest conclusion so far is that he says he didn't recommend an indictment because he doesn't have enough evidence to get a conviction. Not sure I agree, but seems reasonable. Doesn't really exonerate Hillary of wrongdoing though.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:27:28
July 07 2016 16:21 GMT
#83622
On July 08 2016 01:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
Just wow. They harass an insane amount of innocent black people, of course more would not end up dead. If they harassed less innocent black people, the proportion would not be better. So by harassing more innocent black people and not resorting to murdering them you are asserting that balances the ratio.

That's just gross.


In this post you assume:

1. arrests = harassment
2. black arrests -> "insane amount of innocent people"
3. less arrest/harassment = same proportions, which means the same death rate... as opposed to less? which would support my point. Or more? Which would be a weird assumption.
4. That I'm balancing a certain ratio
5. Oh and that being innocent makes it less likely for black people to get killed by the police (the best).

without data, and called what I said gross

I still don't see a clear argument, it seems something like "everything you say is false because black people are being harassed."
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
July 07 2016 16:21 GMT
#83623
To all those who support Hilary for President.

How does it feel to be supporting a candidate that is too stupid to recognize confidential information?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:27:07
July 07 2016 16:22 GMT
#83624
On July 08 2016 01:16 LegalLord wrote:
Loaded questions for days in this hearing.

Though my biggest conclusion so far is that he says he didn't recommend an indictment because he doesn't have enough evidence to get a conviction. Not sure I agree, but seems reasonable. Doesn't really exonerate Hillary of wrongdoing though.


If you can't convict someone, and we assume innocent until proven guilty, doesn't labeling her as guilty in the absence of a conviction kind of go against that?

edit: Plaskett is A+
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:26:55
July 07 2016 16:26 GMT
#83625
edit: oops double post
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
July 07 2016 16:26 GMT
#83626
On July 08 2016 01:22 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2016 01:16 LegalLord wrote:
Loaded questions for days in this hearing.

Though my biggest conclusion so far is that he says he didn't recommend an indictment because he doesn't have enough evidence to get a conviction. Not sure I agree, but seems reasonable. Doesn't really exonerate Hillary of wrongdoing though.


If you can't convict someone, and we assume innocent until proven guilty, doesn't labeling her as guilty in the absence of a conviction kind of go against that?

Guilty of the legal violation of "gross negligence" I think is a matter that would have to go through court, and it's not really our place to decide as those who are not part of the investigation. Guilty of being fucking stupid and careless with emails, doesn't really go against "innocent until proven guilty" at all because it's not a legal standard.

So no, not at all.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24485 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:28:59
July 07 2016 16:27 GMT
#83627
On July 08 2016 01:21 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2016 01:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
Just wow. They harass an insane amount of innocent black people, of course more would not end up dead. If they harassed less innocent black people, the proportion would not be better. So by harassing more innocent black people and not resorting to murdering them you are asserting that balances the ratio.

That's just gross.


In this post you assume:

1. arrests = harassment
2. black arrests -> "insane amount of innocent people"
3. less arrest/harassment = same proportions, which means the same death rate... as opposed to less? which would support my point. Or more? Which would be a weird assumption.
4. That I'm balancing a certain ratio

without data, and called what I said gross

I still don't see a clear argument, it seems something like "everything you say is false because black people are being harassed."


I posted a link that showed in NYC 9 out of 10 people stopped and frisked were 100% innocent at the time by the NYPD's own account. I don't think you're paying attention or you're being even more intentionally ignorant than I thought.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 07 2016 16:29 GMT
#83628
On July 08 2016 01:26 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2016 01:22 Mohdoo wrote:
On July 08 2016 01:16 LegalLord wrote:
Loaded questions for days in this hearing.

Though my biggest conclusion so far is that he says he didn't recommend an indictment because he doesn't have enough evidence to get a conviction. Not sure I agree, but seems reasonable. Doesn't really exonerate Hillary of wrongdoing though.


If you can't convict someone, and we assume innocent until proven guilty, doesn't labeling her as guilty in the absence of a conviction kind of go against that?

Guilty of the legal violation of "gross negligence" I think is a matter that would have to go through court, and it's not really our place to decide as those who are not part of the investigation. Guilty of being fucking stupid and careless with emails, doesn't really go against "innocent until proven guilty" at all because it's not a legal standard.

So no, not at all.

I think this falls under "People will believe what they want." Law is not the arbitrator what is truth, so it comes down to if someone takes the FBI's findings on good faith or not.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:34:01
July 07 2016 16:33 GMT
#83629
This dude from Texas highlighting what a complete joke this is: Why should people follow laws if leaders don't? My god, you stupid child. Go home. This is no way to treat the director of the FBI.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:38:47
July 07 2016 16:37 GMT
#83630
Race is an issue at all levels of the judicial system. First is that minorities tend to be involved in crime more - not commit alone, but their rather poorer socioeconomic status and the related issues put them in a bad position so they are both adjacent to crime and commit crime at a higher rate (that's what happens when your opportunities are shit). Next, the police are more likely to stop someone who doesn't look white but is "suspicious" for whatever reason. Then, the police are more likely to use force. Beyond that, sentencing tends to be harsher. The amount of "how likely are you to end up on the wrong end of the justice system" multipliers for minorities is just stupid.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 07 2016 16:39 GMT
#83631
On July 08 2016 01:21 dae wrote:
To all those who support Hilary for President.

How does it feel to be supporting a candidate that is too stupid to recognize confidential information?

the tone of your question indicates you are not interested in having serious discussion or learning anything, but simply wish to disparage the other side. As such I have no interest in talking to you about the matter, I imagine others feel the same.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
July 07 2016 16:40 GMT
#83632
On July 08 2016 01:39 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2016 01:21 dae wrote:
To all those who support Hilary for President.

How does it feel to be supporting a candidate that is too stupid to recognize confidential information?

the tone of your question indicates you are not interested in having serious discussion or learning anything, but simply wish to disparage the other side. As such I have no interest in talking to you about the matter, I imagine others feel the same.


^ seconded

will this hearing be longer or shorter than the benghazi one?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24485 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:40:56
July 07 2016 16:40 GMT
#83633
On July 08 2016 01:37 ticklishmusic wrote:
Race is an issue at all levels of the judicial system. First is that minorities tend to be involved in crime more - not commit alone, but their rather poorer socioeconomic status and the related issues put them in a bad position so they are both adjacent to crime and commit crime at a higher rate (that's what happens when your opportunities are shit). Next, the police are more likely to stop someone who doesn't look white but is "suspicious" for whatever reason. Then, the police are more likely to use force. Beyond that, sentencing tends to be harsher. The amount of "how likely are you to end up on the wrong end of the justice system" multipliers for minorities is just stupid.


If it was a pinball machine we would have definitely earned that extra ball.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:46:33
July 07 2016 16:41 GMT
#83634
On July 08 2016 01:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2016 01:21 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On July 08 2016 01:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
Just wow. They harass an insane amount of innocent black people, of course more would not end up dead. If they harassed less innocent black people, the proportion would not be better. So by harassing more innocent black people and not resorting to murdering them you are asserting that balances the ratio.

That's just gross.


In this post you assume:

1. arrests = harassment
2. black arrests -> "insane amount of innocent people"
3. less arrest/harassment = same proportions, which means the same death rate... as opposed to less? which would support my point. Or more? Which would be a weird assumption.
4. That I'm balancing a certain ratio

without data, and called what I said gross

I still don't see a clear argument, it seems something like "everything you say is false because black people are being harassed."


I posted a link that showed in NYC 9 out of 10 people stopped and frisked were 100% innocent at the time by the NYPD's own account. I don't think you're paying attention or you're being even more intentionally ignorant than I thought.


So you're arguing that

1. More innocent blacks than innocent whites are confronted by the police (in this case let's just say unarmed, because that would most directly decrease the chances of someone getting killed).
2. Police are less likely to kill an innocent black person compared to other races.
3. Hence the disproportionately less blacks getting killed compared to other races.

Show me some numbers that support this. The thing you linked says 9/10 people of all races were innocent, and that blacks were stopped more frequently than whites, it does not say what percentage of each race was innocent relative to others.

If no numbers then I'll just assume you like to call others ignorant and dense while holding a disproportionate amount of political opinions to your ability to reason.

or alternatively, make an actual argument instead of calling names.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24485 Posts
July 07 2016 16:44 GMT
#83635
On July 08 2016 01:39 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2016 01:21 dae wrote:
To all those who support Hilary for President.

How does it feel to be supporting a candidate that is too stupid to recognize confidential information?

the tone of your question indicates you are not interested in having serious discussion or learning anything, but simply wish to disparage the other side. As such I have no interest in talking to you about the matter, I imagine others feel the same.


I get the comment on tone but that's essentially the case Hillary made. That she was too ignorant to realize she was storing classified information on an unsecured server. Comey basically said that he didn't have adequate evidence to prove that she wasn't that ignorant.

Makes for a stronger legal case but it does bring into question whether it was a good idea to have a SoS (or a president) that isn't sophisticated enough to know being the SoS they would get classified emails and that storing them on an unsecured server was unacceptable in the FBI eye's.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
July 07 2016 16:46 GMT
#83636
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24485 Posts
July 07 2016 16:47 GMT
#83637
On July 08 2016 01:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2016 01:27 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 08 2016 01:21 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On July 08 2016 01:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
Just wow. They harass an insane amount of innocent black people, of course more would not end up dead. If they harassed less innocent black people, the proportion would not be better. So by harassing more innocent black people and not resorting to murdering them you are asserting that balances the ratio.

That's just gross.


In this post you assume:

1. arrests = harassment
2. black arrests -> "insane amount of innocent people"
3. less arrest/harassment = same proportions, which means the same death rate... as opposed to less? which would support my point. Or more? Which would be a weird assumption.
4. That I'm balancing a certain ratio

without data, and called what I said gross

I still don't see a clear argument, it seems something like "everything you say is false because black people are being harassed."


I posted a link that showed in NYC 9 out of 10 people stopped and frisked were 100% innocent at the time by the NYPD's own account. I don't think you're paying attention or you're being even more intentionally ignorant than I thought.


So you're arguing that

1. More innocent blacks than innocent whites are confronted by the police (in this case let's just say unarmed, because that would most directly decrease the chances of someone getting killed).
2. Police are less likely to kill an innocent black person compared to other races.
3. Hence the disproportionately less blacks getting killed compared to other races.

Show me some numbers that support this. The thing you linked says 9/10 people of all races were innocent, and that blacks were stopped more frequently than whites, it does not say what percentage of each race was innocent relative to others.

If no numbers then I'll just assume you like to call others ignorant and dense while holding a disproportionate amount of political opinions to your ability to reason.


They stopped more young black men in NYC than there are young black men in NYC, I've posted the stat here several times and it's a widely known fact. This is what I'm talking about with your unrelenting ignorance.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 07 2016 16:47 GMT
#83638
On July 08 2016 01:40 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2016 01:39 zlefin wrote:
On July 08 2016 01:21 dae wrote:
To all those who support Hilary for President.

How does it feel to be supporting a candidate that is too stupid to recognize confidential information?

the tone of your question indicates you are not interested in having serious discussion or learning anything, but simply wish to disparage the other side. As such I have no interest in talking to you about the matter, I imagine others feel the same.


^ seconded

will this hearing be longer or shorter than the benghazi one?

Wasn't that thing like 7 hours? I can't believe they are going to need him to explain insufficient evidence for 7 hours.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
July 07 2016 16:48 GMT
#83639
sorry, please post it again, as well as how many of them were innocent compared to the white people they stopped.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24485 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 16:50:09
July 07 2016 16:49 GMT
#83640
On July 08 2016 01:48 zulu_nation8 wrote:
sorry, please post it again, as well as how many of them were innocent compared to the white people they stopped.


Look it up.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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