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my little diamond thougt is why not use ghosts and mass emp infestors, you mass them anyway, or should mass them in the ultralategame, and use templar spreaded on the map and feedback them ?? Infestor without energy is kinda waste of moeny soo, why nobody does that ? is it not viable ?
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On November 09 2012 02:45 Lephex2.0 wrote:
my little diamond thougt is why not use ghosts and mass emp infestors, you mass them anyway, or should mass them in the ultralategame, and use templar spreaded on the map and feedback them ?? Infestor without energy is kinda waste of moeny soo, why nobody does that ? is it not viable ?
No ground unit can reach Infestors beneath BLs without being drown in an endless sea of Broodlings, and that's the end of story.
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On November 09 2012 02:34 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 02:10 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:59 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 09 2012 01:54 NobodyImportant wrote:On November 09 2012 01:49 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:42 NobodyImportant wrote:On November 09 2012 01:41 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:19 NobodyImportant wrote:
Something many of you people are failing to realize is that broodlord/infestor is literally the ULTIMATE zerg composition, it is the END GAME composition of zerg, protoss players these days (I am a low GM on korean server, so I know what I'm talking about) fail to theorycraft protoss END game strats. They feel that since the mothership is an END GAME UNIT, they have an end game composition as long as they have colossus and templar and other expensive units.
NO - this is not the case. A protoss END GAME ARMY ideally consists of archons/templar/voidrays/mothership/carrier. A composition that dismantles the zerg END GAME army. Protoss players usually fail to recycle their units to get an end game composition that deals with infestor/broodlord properly.
I am a protoss player and my best matchup is PvZ, I have had no trouble (really ever after the neural nurf) with infestors. Early on, the infestor count is so low that they barely able to do anything, spreading your army pretty much nullifies fungal, and colossus or templar nullify infested terrans. Also blinking like 6 stalkers into infestors usually snipes 3-4 of them in the mid game which causes their count to be even lower.
Need I say more? Do they play NR30 on the Korean ladder now? Oh, by the way, I am a 4 time GSL Champ. Extremely good contribution to the discussion. Thanks for the great insight. No offense. But your post just reeks of elitism but saying you were Low GM Protoss on Korean server. And that only you had theorycraft the Protoss END game strategy. You then go on about the Protoss being able to do a half dozen things to slow down the Zerg so Protoss can get their ultimate comp out faster than the zergs. But in 95% + of the pro games we see, Zerg has that infestor BL army out before we see that ULTIMATE Protoss comp. why is that? Well lets think of why this is: Claim: 99% of progamers these days (excluding KeSPA players) are not innovators and pretty stupid relative to real intellect and innovation that is required in SC2/thrived in sc1 Proof: The progamers of SC2 were B-teamers in SC1, these players were NOT the innovators of sc1 strats and were pretty much a joke to the Code-S players. Hence, these players 'innovative' strats in sc2 are really not that innovative. Now that the KeSPA players (all the code-S players) have switched over to sc2, we will truly see the metagame shift properly. What I'm trying to get at is, most players these days don't really know how to play and just rely on raw mechanics to get them the win, VERY FEW players seriously innovate. I apologize if I showed eliteism with my post, I just wanted to emphasize that I know what I'm talking about. I consider myself an innovator, I have 120apm roughly, consistently being able to beat players with 300+ apm - mainly because I have a very intimate and deep understanding about the protoss matchups - I know you will ask who I am, but I want to keep my identity private. But you are a professional player? Well, if he is a low GM on Korean ladder like he 'claims', he is one of the top 200 players in the world. And maybe even higher than that since a lot of players have multiple accounts. But I really doubt it since he called all the eSF players bad and not innovate and put the Kespa players on a pedestal. His remarks about innovator shows that he didn't really understand the progaming scene. A lot of the 'builds' we saw in BW did not just come from the S Class players. S Class players had both the mechanics and the innovation. But a lot of B teamers were just as innovative but lacked the mechanics. Low GM on Korean ladder from Canada. NobodyImportant must be on par with Huk and Scarlett then  And of course, with 120apm. Right...
You actuallty dont need much APM to play protoss. Having 120 APM for GM isnt impossible at all. Either way, i rather believe the result of recent tournament rather then calling all pro protoss player dumb and uninnovative.
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On November 09 2012 02:30 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 01:38 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 09 2012 01:33 TheDwf wrote:On November 09 2012 01:30 Bluerain wrote:
then ppl complain that not only is it good in every matchup but that its good in mass and in any situation. maybe thats cus the zerg race is so bland and theres no other good tier 2 options other than infestors. Love Zergs trying to spread this fallacy. Meanwhile, you see people like DRG or Leenock win with constant tier2 agression against Terran or Protoss, whether it's Mutalisk or Roach-based. Guess that's your so-called “lack of other good tier2 options,” eh? So you want a game that is built around midgame all-ins? Meanwhile u see terrans like MVP and taeja win constantly against infestor play. Where exactly did I speak about “all-ins”? But this sure shows something about the average Zerg mindset that you relate tier2 agression with all-in.
are you insane? in order to make a midgame tier army composition viable a zerg has to do damage or he will get trashed.
wow you really are one of the most passiveaggressive guys ive ever seen on this forum and the way you jump onto other people is so immature, come back when ure done with being a teenager please.
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On November 09 2012 02:45 Lephex2.0 wrote:
my little diamond thougt is why not use ghosts and mass emp infestors, you mass them anyway, or should mass them in the ultralategame, and use templar spreaded on the map and feedback them ?? Infestor without energy is kinda waste of moeny soo, why nobody does that ? is it not viable ?
Infestors are pretty big so you will need a lot of EMPs. And if your ghosts come from one direction, one fungal can catch them all. Not to mention that most Zerg have their BLs slightly ahead of the infestors which means brood lings will kill the ghosts before EMP can go off. In theory, you can send a squad of ghost to flank the army and get EMPs off. But this means the ghosts will be unprotected and can get killed by lings, etc. the risk is just too higher considering the cost of ghosts when you are already trying to build Vikings, tanks, marines, medivacs.
HTs is even worse to have spread all over the map. They will just get picked off last and right.
Another possibility is drop ships/prisms but once again, they can get fungal. The risk v reward just isn't there for this time of strategy to work consistently. It is like depending on burrow banes to kill marine tank. So, it is great when it works. But you can't really count on it as a core strategy.
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On November 09 2012 01:54 NobodyImportant wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 01:49 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:42 NobodyImportant wrote:On November 09 2012 01:41 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:19 NobodyImportant wrote:
Something many of you people are failing to realize is that broodlord/infestor is literally the ULTIMATE zerg composition, it is the END GAME composition of zerg, protoss players these days (I am a low GM on korean server, so I know what I'm talking about) fail to theorycraft protoss END game strats. They feel that since the mothership is an END GAME UNIT, they have an end game composition as long as they have colossus and templar and other expensive units.
NO - this is not the case. A protoss END GAME ARMY ideally consists of archons/templar/voidrays/mothership/carrier. A composition that dismantles the zerg END GAME army. Protoss players usually fail to recycle their units to get an end game composition that deals with infestor/broodlord properly.
I am a protoss player and my best matchup is PvZ, I have had no trouble (really ever after the neural nurf) with infestors. Early on, the infestor count is so low that they barely able to do anything, spreading your army pretty much nullifies fungal, and colossus or templar nullify infested terrans. Also blinking like 6 stalkers into infestors usually snipes 3-4 of them in the mid game which causes their count to be even lower.
Need I say more? Do they play NR30 on the Korean ladder now? Oh, by the way, I am a 4 time GSL Champ. Extremely good contribution to the discussion. Thanks for the great insight. No offense. But your post just reeks of elitism but saying you were Low GM Protoss on Korean server. And that only you had theorycraft the Protoss END game strategy. You then go on about the Protoss being able to do a half dozen things to slow down the Zerg so Protoss can get their ultimate comp out faster than the zergs. But in 95% + of the pro games we see, Zerg has that infestor BL army out before we see that ULTIMATE Protoss comp. why is that? Well lets think of why this is: Claim: 99% of progamers these days (excluding KeSPA players) are not innovators and pretty stupid relative to real intellect and innovation that is required in SC2/thrived in sc1 Proof: The progamers of SC2 were B-teamers in SC1, these players were NOT the innovators of sc1 strats and were pretty much a joke to the Code-S players. Hence, these players 'innovative' strats in sc2 are really not that innovative. Now that the KeSPA players (all the code-S players) have switched over to sc2, we will truly see the metagame shift properly. What I'm trying to get at is, most players these days don't really know how to play and just rely on raw mechanics to get them the win, VERY FEW players seriously innovate. I apologize if I showed eliteism with my post, I just wanted to emphasize that I know what I'm talking about. I consider myself an innovator, I have 120apm roughly, consistently being able to beat players with 300+ apm - mainly because I have a very intimate and deep understanding about the protoss matchups - I know you will ask who I am, but I want to keep my identity private. Can you show us the replays or it didn't happend lol.
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On November 09 2012 01:54 NobodyImportant wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 01:49 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:42 NobodyImportant wrote:On November 09 2012 01:41 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:19 NobodyImportant wrote:
Something many of you people are failing to realize is that broodlord/infestor is literally the ULTIMATE zerg composition, it is the END GAME composition of zerg, protoss players these days (I am a low GM on korean server, so I know what I'm talking about) fail to theorycraft protoss END game strats. They feel that since the mothership is an END GAME UNIT, they have an end game composition as long as they have colossus and templar and other expensive units.
NO - this is not the case. A protoss END GAME ARMY ideally consists of archons/templar/voidrays/mothership/carrier. A composition that dismantles the zerg END GAME army. Protoss players usually fail to recycle their units to get an end game composition that deals with infestor/broodlord properly.
I am a protoss player and my best matchup is PvZ, I have had no trouble (really ever after the neural nurf) with infestors. Early on, the infestor count is so low that they barely able to do anything, spreading your army pretty much nullifies fungal, and colossus or templar nullify infested terrans. Also blinking like 6 stalkers into infestors usually snipes 3-4 of them in the mid game which causes their count to be even lower.
Need I say more? Do they play NR30 on the Korean ladder now? Oh, by the way, I am a 4 time GSL Champ. Extremely good contribution to the discussion. Thanks for the great insight. No offense. But your post just reeks of elitism but saying you were Low GM Protoss on Korean server. And that only you had theorycraft the Protoss END game strategy. You then go on about the Protoss being able to do a half dozen things to slow down the Zerg so Protoss can get their ultimate comp out faster than the zergs. But in 95% + of the pro games we see, Zerg has that infestor BL army out before we see that ULTIMATE Protoss comp. why is that? Well lets think of why this is: Claim: 99% of progamers these days (excluding KeSPA players) are not innovators and pretty stupid relative to real intellect and innovation that is required in SC2/thrived in sc1 Proof: The progamers of SC2 were B-teamers in SC1, these players were NOT the innovators of sc1 strats and were pretty much a joke to the Code-S players. Hence, these players 'innovative' strats in sc2 are really not that innovative. Now that the KeSPA players (all the code-S players) have switched over to sc2, we will truly see the metagame shift properly. What I'm trying to get at is, most players these days don't really know how to play and just rely on raw mechanics to get them the win, VERY FEW players seriously innovate. I apologize if I showed eliteism with my post, I just wanted to emphasize that I know what I'm talking about. I consider myself an innovator, I have 120apm roughly, consistently being able to beat players with 300+ apm - mainly because I have a very intimate and deep understanding about the protoss matchups - I know you will ask who I am, but I want to keep my identity private.
Ok you seem to be new to TL, so I am going to break something to you. There is a button on all of your posts called Profile. With it, we can access all previous posts you have made on TL, which I have done and linked below:
Asking how hotkeys work
So I am going to call bull shit to all the stuff you said above. Also, this sentence only barely makes sense:
"not innovators and pretty stupid relative to real intellect and innovation that is required in SC2/thrived in sc1"
Normally I would not call attention to it, but you are questioning the intelligence of SC1 players. I don't know what "real intellect" or how to measure it against fake intellect, but it sounds like something so vague it is impossible to argue against. Your further claims that none of the strats in SC2 are innovative because the players were B teamers in SC1, but you just call all of the SC1 players stupid. You offer no real proof to your claim in any way beyond saying that you " wanted to emphasize that I know what I'm talking about."
And then you drop the ulitimate bomb: "I know you will ask who I am, but I want to keep my identity private".
So I am going to say that we don't need to know who you are, because we know enough to be sure that you should be ignored.
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On November 09 2012 02:38 Fr0d0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 02:20 tripper688 wrote:On November 08 2012 11:28 Lunareste wrote:On November 08 2012 11:26 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 08 2012 11:05 XXXSmOke wrote:
Right Approach.
Bad Timing.
BL/Infestor has been strong for well over a year.
It should not take that long to figure that its imbalanced. A year of Z's having extremely good results that I am sure if you did the stats of mass infestor would be in 95% of those games.
Its a good approach if they apply this after a couple of months, like they did when the Z Queen and creep problems were happening.
Sorry Blizz BL/Infestor already made deep impacts on the overall shittyness and how stale the game has become. Fix it now, but next time quicker.
Timing is pretty sensible, I mean their flagship WCS finals are pretty soon right? Would be pretty harsh on the Zerg that made it to throw such a potentially huge nerf into the mix just before that It was pretty harsh to buff the queen and overlord just before a GSL season started, too. Didn't stop them. lol...how bout changing barracks to cc -> supply -> rax in the middle of a GSL season? lol... how abut releasing the game which required about 20 major nerfs to terran and about 10 major nerfs to protoss to be about balanced ? How abut denying for 2 years that terran can blindly build whatever he want with 0 scouting and never get in trouble and dominate all major tournaments?
I'd argue that was as much a problem of Blizzard's complete incompetency at map creation as it was a problem with racial balance. 
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On November 09 2012 02:38 Fr0d0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 02:20 tripper688 wrote:On November 08 2012 11:28 Lunareste wrote:On November 08 2012 11:26 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 08 2012 11:05 XXXSmOke wrote:
Right Approach.
Bad Timing.
BL/Infestor has been strong for well over a year.
It should not take that long to figure that its imbalanced. A year of Z's having extremely good results that I am sure if you did the stats of mass infestor would be in 95% of those games.
Its a good approach if they apply this after a couple of months, like they did when the Z Queen and creep problems were happening.
Sorry Blizz BL/Infestor already made deep impacts on the overall shittyness and how stale the game has become. Fix it now, but next time quicker.
Timing is pretty sensible, I mean their flagship WCS finals are pretty soon right? Would be pretty harsh on the Zerg that made it to throw such a potentially huge nerf into the mix just before that It was pretty harsh to buff the queen and overlord just before a GSL season started, too. Didn't stop them. lol...how bout changing barracks to cc -> supply -> rax in the middle of a GSL season? lol... how abut releasing the game which required about 20 major nerfs to terran and about 10 major nerfs to protoss to be about balanced ? How abut denying for 2 years that terran can blindly build whatever he want with 0 scouting and never get in trouble and dominate all major tournaments?
also, what does that have to do with the timing of balance patches in regards to tournaments...
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On November 09 2012 02:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 01:54 NobodyImportant wrote:On November 09 2012 01:49 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:42 NobodyImportant wrote:On November 09 2012 01:41 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:19 NobodyImportant wrote:
Something many of you people are failing to realize is that broodlord/infestor is literally the ULTIMATE zerg composition, it is the END GAME composition of zerg, protoss players these days (I am a low GM on korean server, so I know what I'm talking about) fail to theorycraft protoss END game strats. They feel that since the mothership is an END GAME UNIT, they have an end game composition as long as they have colossus and templar and other expensive units.
NO - this is not the case. A protoss END GAME ARMY ideally consists of archons/templar/voidrays/mothership/carrier. A composition that dismantles the zerg END GAME army. Protoss players usually fail to recycle their units to get an end game composition that deals with infestor/broodlord properly.
I am a protoss player and my best matchup is PvZ, I have had no trouble (really ever after the neural nurf) with infestors. Early on, the infestor count is so low that they barely able to do anything, spreading your army pretty much nullifies fungal, and colossus or templar nullify infested terrans. Also blinking like 6 stalkers into infestors usually snipes 3-4 of them in the mid game which causes their count to be even lower.
Need I say more? Do they play NR30 on the Korean ladder now? Oh, by the way, I am a 4 time GSL Champ. Extremely good contribution to the discussion. Thanks for the great insight. No offense. But your post just reeks of elitism but saying you were Low GM Protoss on Korean server. And that only you had theorycraft the Protoss END game strategy. You then go on about the Protoss being able to do a half dozen things to slow down the Zerg so Protoss can get their ultimate comp out faster than the zergs. But in 95% + of the pro games we see, Zerg has that infestor BL army out before we see that ULTIMATE Protoss comp. why is that? Well lets think of why this is: Claim: 99% of progamers these days (excluding KeSPA players) are not innovators and pretty stupid relative to real intellect and innovation that is required in SC2/thrived in sc1 Proof: The progamers of SC2 were B-teamers in SC1, these players were NOT the innovators of sc1 strats and were pretty much a joke to the Code-S players. Hence, these players 'innovative' strats in sc2 are really not that innovative. Now that the KeSPA players (all the code-S players) have switched over to sc2, we will truly see the metagame shift properly. What I'm trying to get at is, most players these days don't really know how to play and just rely on raw mechanics to get them the win, VERY FEW players seriously innovate. I apologize if I showed eliteism with my post, I just wanted to emphasize that I know what I'm talking about. I consider myself an innovator, I have 120apm roughly, consistently being able to beat players with 300+ apm - mainly because I have a very intimate and deep understanding about the protoss matchups - I know you will ask who I am, but I want to keep my identity private. Ok you seem to be new to TL, so I am going to break something to you. There is a button on all of your posts called Profile. With it, we can access all previous posts you have made on TL, which I have done and linked below: Asking how hotkeys workSo I am going to call bull shit to all the stuff you said above. Also, this sentence only barely makes sense: "not innovators and pretty stupid relative to real intellect and innovation that is required in SC2/thrived in sc1" Normally I would not call attention to it, but you are questioning the intelligence of SC1 players. I don't know what "real intellect" or how to measure it against fake intellect, but it sounds like something so vague it is impossible to argue against. Your further claims that none of the strats in SC2 are innovative because the players were B teamers in SC1, but you just call all of the SC1 players stupid. You offer no real proof to your claim in any way beyond saying that you " wanted to emphasize that I know what I'm talking about." And then you drop the ulitimate bomb: "I know you will ask who I am, but I want to keep my identity private". So I am going to say that we don't need to know who you are, because we know enough to be sure that you should be ignored.
loooool.... busted. Or maybe you can get GM on KR with Protoss without even knowing how to use hotkeys? o.o
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On November 09 2012 02:56 NEEDZMOAR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 02:30 TheDwf wrote:On November 09 2012 01:38 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 09 2012 01:33 TheDwf wrote:On November 09 2012 01:30 Bluerain wrote:
then ppl complain that not only is it good in every matchup but that its good in mass and in any situation. maybe thats cus the zerg race is so bland and theres no other good tier 2 options other than infestors. Love Zergs trying to spread this fallacy. Meanwhile, you see people like DRG or Leenock win with constant tier2 agression against Terran or Protoss, whether it's Mutalisk or Roach-based. Guess that's your so-called “lack of other good tier2 options,” eh? So you want a game that is built around midgame all-ins? Meanwhile u see terrans like MVP and taeja win constantly against infestor play. Where exactly did I speak about “all-ins”? But this sure shows something about the average Zerg mindset that you relate tier2 agression with all-in. are you insane? in order to make a midgame tier army composition viable a zerg has to do damage or he will get trashed.
So you're essentially telling me that whenever you invest into something to damage your opponent, it has to yield some results else you will be at a disadvantage? Well, sorry but this doesn't come to me as a shocking news since it's actually true for all three races. I'm absolutely fed up with Zergs coming and saying they don't have anything worth at tier2 besides the Infestor when you regularly see games won by Zergs with tier2 agression without Infestor, whether it's with Zerglings, Banelings, Roaches, Mutalisks or any combination of the above. And not all of those agressive strategies have to be “all-in”. You're not automatically all-in because you decide to stay on Lair for a while.
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On November 09 2012 02:45 Lephex2.0 wrote:
my little diamond thougt is why not use ghosts and mass emp infestors, you mass them anyway, or should mass them in the ultralategame, and use templar spreaded on the map and feedback them ?? Infestor without energy is kinda waste of moeny soo, why nobody does that ? is it not viable ?
It's hard to pull off.
- If you go bio, you want a tempo game. Your Ghosts are slower than Marines/Marauders, because they don't have stim. So Ghosts get isolated very fast and or your army movement is a lot slower. There is also a lot more unit trading in TvZ than in TvP, so its harder to retain your (expensive) Ghosts after battles.
- With biomech, you often do not have much gas to spend or many baracks with a tech lab. Your army is a lot slower so you won't get many oppurtunities to get your Ghosts behind the enemy army to EMP the Infestors.
- There is a high risk that Ghosts don't hit the EMP on the spellcasters. Against Protoss, you can at least EMP other stuff to remove the shields, but Ghosts vs Zerg have a single purpose. Basically, every Terran Ghost MUST kill/disable more than two Infestors during his lifetime to be worthwhile.
- Zergs can have much more Infestors than a Protoss can have templars.
- Infestors clump less than HTs because of their unit size.
- Cloak isn't so useful against Zerg, as they have quite sturdy mobile detection and fungal kills cloak as well. Infestors have burrow and are faster than HTs.
- and other stuff based on typical unit maneuvering differences in TvZ and TvP
It's not impossible, e.g. Gumiho did it when he was on fire with his bio play. But you need to be already ahead and it is a very unforgiving type of play.
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On November 09 2012 02:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 01:54 NobodyImportant wrote:On November 09 2012 01:49 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:42 NobodyImportant wrote:On November 09 2012 01:41 vthree wrote:On November 09 2012 01:19 NobodyImportant wrote:
Something many of you people are failing to realize is that broodlord/infestor is literally the ULTIMATE zerg composition, it is the END GAME composition of zerg, protoss players these days (I am a low GM on korean server, so I know what I'm talking about) fail to theorycraft protoss END game strats. They feel that since the mothership is an END GAME UNIT, they have an end game composition as long as they have colossus and templar and other expensive units.
NO - this is not the case. A protoss END GAME ARMY ideally consists of archons/templar/voidrays/mothership/carrier. A composition that dismantles the zerg END GAME army. Protoss players usually fail to recycle their units to get an end game composition that deals with infestor/broodlord properly.
I am a protoss player and my best matchup is PvZ, I have had no trouble (really ever after the neural nurf) with infestors. Early on, the infestor count is so low that they barely able to do anything, spreading your army pretty much nullifies fungal, and colossus or templar nullify infested terrans. Also blinking like 6 stalkers into infestors usually snipes 3-4 of them in the mid game which causes their count to be even lower.
Need I say more? Do they play NR30 on the Korean ladder now? Oh, by the way, I am a 4 time GSL Champ. Extremely good contribution to the discussion. Thanks for the great insight. No offense. But your post just reeks of elitism but saying you were Low GM Protoss on Korean server. And that only you had theorycraft the Protoss END game strategy. You then go on about the Protoss being able to do a half dozen things to slow down the Zerg so Protoss can get their ultimate comp out faster than the zergs. But in 95% + of the pro games we see, Zerg has that infestor BL army out before we see that ULTIMATE Protoss comp. why is that? Well lets think of why this is: Claim: 99% of progamers these days (excluding KeSPA players) are not innovators and pretty stupid relative to real intellect and innovation that is required in SC2/thrived in sc1 Proof: The progamers of SC2 were B-teamers in SC1, these players were NOT the innovators of sc1 strats and were pretty much a joke to the Code-S players. Hence, these players 'innovative' strats in sc2 are really not that innovative. Now that the KeSPA players (all the code-S players) have switched over to sc2, we will truly see the metagame shift properly. What I'm trying to get at is, most players these days don't really know how to play and just rely on raw mechanics to get them the win, VERY FEW players seriously innovate. I apologize if I showed eliteism with my post, I just wanted to emphasize that I know what I'm talking about. I consider myself an innovator, I have 120apm roughly, consistently being able to beat players with 300+ apm - mainly because I have a very intimate and deep understanding about the protoss matchups - I know you will ask who I am, but I want to keep my identity private. Ok you seem to be new to TL, so I am going to break something to you. There is a button on all of your posts called Profile. With it, we can access all previous posts you have made on TL, which I have done and linked below: Asking how hotkeys workSo I am going to call bull shit to all the stuff you said above. Also, this sentence only barely makes sense: "not innovators and pretty stupid relative to real intellect and innovation that is required in SC2/thrived in sc1" Normally I would not call attention to it, but you are questioning the intelligence of SC1 players. I don't know what "real intellect" or how to measure it against fake intellect, but it sounds like something so vague it is impossible to argue against. Your further claims that none of the strats in SC2 are innovative because the players were B teamers in SC1, but you just call all of the SC1 players stupid. You offer no real proof to your claim in any way beyond saying that you " wanted to emphasize that I know what I'm talking about." And then you drop the ulitimate bomb: "I know you will ask who I am, but I want to keep my identity private". So I am going to say that we don't need to know who you are, because we know enough to be sure that you should be ignored.
I pulled out my GG button on my Iphone and played it with every voice like 5 times when I read this. Personally, I'm not interested in who you are. There's nothing to gain from hiding your identity if you were actually anything and any good at the game. Which I am going to go out on a limb and say that you are not.
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On November 09 2012 02:45 Lephex2.0 wrote:
my little diamond thougt is why not use ghosts and mass emp infestors, you mass them anyway, or should mass them in the ultralategame, and use templar spreaded on the map and feedback them ?? Infestor without energy is kinda waste of moeny soo, why nobody does that ? is it not viable ?
Ghosts are unfortunately not very effective vs Infestors. Fungal outranges EMP, decloaks Ghosts and holds them in place and making them easy targets for zerglings. Even if you manage to EMP Infestors, they are so big that one EMP will only cover a few of them, and you need several EMPs to prevent a full energy Infestor from Fungling. Snipe does good damage, but it's also outranged by Fungal. The main problem, however, is that Ghosts are expensive and even less useful vs most other Zerg units. Snipe isn't strong enough to work well against Ultras and Brood Lords anymore, and at 200/100 it's difficult to get them cost effective or to even justify going down that tech path vs Zerg.
I'm not a Protoss, but Templars essentially have the same problem, except they don't even have a standard attack or cloak, so you can't really spread them out on the map without support without losing them to lings.
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On November 09 2012 03:05 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 02:38 Fr0d0 wrote:On November 09 2012 02:20 tripper688 wrote:On November 08 2012 11:28 Lunareste wrote:On November 08 2012 11:26 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 08 2012 11:05 XXXSmOke wrote:
Right Approach.
Bad Timing.
BL/Infestor has been strong for well over a year.
It should not take that long to figure that its imbalanced. A year of Z's having extremely good results that I am sure if you did the stats of mass infestor would be in 95% of those games.
Its a good approach if they apply this after a couple of months, like they did when the Z Queen and creep problems were happening.
Sorry Blizz BL/Infestor already made deep impacts on the overall shittyness and how stale the game has become. Fix it now, but next time quicker.
Timing is pretty sensible, I mean their flagship WCS finals are pretty soon right? Would be pretty harsh on the Zerg that made it to throw such a potentially huge nerf into the mix just before that It was pretty harsh to buff the queen and overlord just before a GSL season started, too. Didn't stop them. lol...how bout changing barracks to cc -> supply -> rax in the middle of a GSL season? lol... how abut releasing the game which required about 20 major nerfs to terran and about 10 major nerfs to protoss to be about balanced ? How abut denying for 2 years that terran can blindly build whatever he want with 0 scouting and never get in trouble and dominate all major tournaments? also, what does that have to do with the timing of balance patches in regards to tournaments...
It means that timing of terrans nerfs was always about 1 year late since release.
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On November 08 2012 09:15 Maxd11 wrote:
He said nothing. Not even close. He acknowledged that infestors see a lot of use and said that blizzard will change any units that need changing. Same as always.
hahaha with that knowledge you can work as a spoke person!!
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well for how long is infestor the dominant unit? it has been even before patch for month. I dunno how long they need to see this? The patch made it just extremely easy to get to hive in less than 15 minutes.
When finally everyone is pissed about zerg even pro zerg players like darkforce are bored with zerg meta game, blizzard says lets wait and see a few more month...
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On November 09 2012 03:45 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Is this forever?!?!?!
This is why he gets paid the big bucks, he asks the questions no one else thinks to ask.
Infestors: Are they forever?
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On November 09 2012 03:45 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Is this forever?!?!?!
The comment from DB actually reads like "please let there be some new OP thing next month so I dont have to do anything, please please please" ...
That is really strengthening my belief that he has no clue how to "read and judge" the game he is supposed to balance and doesnt look at it the right way.
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EPT
