EPTTerrorism and 9/11 - Page 4
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EMIYA
United States433 Posts
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dp
United States234 Posts
As for ends justifying the means, that really is determined by each individual person. What number is a reasonable trade off for life? Is one hundred 85 year olds worth killing to save 10 babies? How many rapists to save a little girl? Killing one person to save 1,000. Each person has their own threshold, but I guess the real question would be what would you sacrifice your life for. It's easy to sacrifice others, what is your worth in other peoples lives? | ||
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Zaqwert
United States411 Posts
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On September 12 2012 04:59 dp wrote: 9/11 is like the CT holiday of the year. Everyone out of the wood work. Now we just need to be called sheeple a bit more and told we need to 'research' better to know the truth only they and a select few have figured out. Facts opposing that view are 'manufactured by the higher ups' and their lack of facts is proof of their ideas. This ::insert random youtube video:: will explain it to us though. Education: Wikipedia/YouTube Philosophy: YouTube. Politics: John Stewart/Alex Jones Humor: 9gag. And we call it "thinking outside the box."  | ||
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Cornstyle
United States147 Posts
On September 12 2012 05:11 jdseemoreglass wrote: Education: Wikipedia/YouTube Philosophy: YouTube. Politics: John Stewart/Alex Jones Humor: 9gag. And we call it "thinking outside the box." While true to describe many of those people, it's almost insulting to include Jon Stewart in with these theories. The guy is actually a reasonable, intelligent human being. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
ones believe is strengthened by numbers and nothing else. | ||
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
On September 12 2012 05:11 jdseemoreglass wrote: Education: Wikipedia/YouTube Philosophy: YouTube. Politics: John Stewart/Alex Jones Humor: 9gag. And we call it "thinking outside the box." Education: What government wants you to know Philosophy: What government wants you to think Politics: What government wants you to hear Humor: x factor jokes appart i just see hear all the sides and take my own conclusions its not a bad thing to question stuff | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
if you're intelligent, you are not going to base all your political thoughts and perspectives from watching his show. But it is a refreshing escape from the typical biased bullshit that you will see on the daily from the big news corporations. The whole purpose of the show, in a sense, is to shed light on contradictions and faults of BOTH political parties (and also, largely, the big news agencies), and to top if off, he does it in a very humorous and entertaining way. I was taking a communications class a little over a year ago, and my professor stated that in a survey of college-educated middle-20's people, most of them would have rather watched the daily show as their source for news, over watching cnn, fox, etc. You gotta give jon some merit when he brings big time hosts and politicians on his show for discussions. Everybody that's seen the show before understands that it actually has a really impressive influence on a certain demographic, which i would figure to be around 20-30s aged people (which coincidentally happens to be the age group that seems to vote the least every year) | ||
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Diminisherqc
Canada220 Posts
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On September 12 2012 04:59 dp wrote: 9/11 is like the CT holiday of the year. Everyone out of the wood work. Now we just need to be called sheeple a bit more and told we need to 'research' better to know the truth only they and a select few have figured out. Facts opposing that view are 'manufactured by the higher ups' and their lack of facts is proof of their ideas. This ::insert random youtube video:: will explain it to us though. As for ends justifying the means, that really is determined by each individual person. What number is a reasonable trade off for life? Is one hundred 85 year olds worth killing to save 10 babies? How many rapists to save a little girl? Killing one person to save 1,000. Each person has their own threshold, but I guess the real question would be what would you sacrifice your life for. It's easy to sacrifice others, what is your worth in other peoples lives? I thought you meant "counter terrorism" until I finished reading the entire first paragraph. I bet those kind of CT people come out of the woodwork today too. Is this thread supposed to be about 9/11 and showing respect for the dead or for debating the impacts of US foreign policy and acceptable collateral damage? Edit: Or apparently claiming the government knocked down the towers... cause ya'know man, there's like, this vast conspiracy that includes the media, the government and... rich people, to get oil and the US... something or other and the thing... false flag! | ||
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Sanctimonius
United Kingdom861 Posts
I would like to point out that other countries have been fighting terrorism for decades before the US declared her war on terror, and frankly the US, through one society or another, gave the IRA support for many, many years. Honestly, the peace process was finalised as much of the support from the US dried up after 9-11, perhaps because supporting people who would bomb innocents seemed a bit less palatable after seeing the destruction it could wreak on home soil. Maybe they were training us up to be good allies in fighting terrorism in other countries, eh? | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
Your not save for Islamic Jihad, not in Paris NYC, London, Madrid, Buenos Aires or Tel Aviv. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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Cornstyle
United States147 Posts
Is this thread supposed to be about 9/11 and showing respect for the dead or for debating the impacts of US foreign policy and acceptable collateral damage?[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone has a clue anymore. It was quickly derailed by the conspiracy nuts and is just a back and forth of that. Surprised its still open. There was a really nice post from some guy in Denmark about how the lines of morality and means are blurred in desperate situations however. | ||
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FlilFlam
Canada109 Posts
Assume for a moment that there was a renewed investigation. Who would investigate, and what would they be investigating? Would they assume various "conspiracy" theories and look for supporting and contradictory evidence? Wouldn't it be a "O.K evil government, we're gonna get to the bottom of this!" sort of crusade? (based on the sentiment of the people calling for an investigation) The average person does not and or does not want to believe that their government is capable of commiting an amoral act of mass murder. They do not want to believe that their supposed light house democracy can be undercut by secret dealings and secret plots they call "false flag events". So long as the american population has faith in their own nation, emotion dictates that such megalithic conspiracy theories be looked upon as insulting and the result of stupidity. Most people like to think that the world is a nice happy place, that deams can come true, rags to riches, spiritual enlightenment, maybe aliens if we are smart enough, and general honey bee sugar and spice happy go lucky justin bieber halapalooza sorts of stuff... and junk... So... I don't really see an investigation going forward anytime soon. On September 12 2012 05:11 jdseemoreglass wrote: Education: Wikipedia/YouTube Philosophy: YouTube. Politics: John Stewart/Alex Jones Humor: 9gag. And we call it "thinking outside the box." I would like to remind you and your readers that just because something is on youtube doesn't mean it is NOT credible just as it does not mean it IS credible. The same goes for wikipedia. John Stweart is sort of a satirical pundit. It's sad but true that many average people get their news from him and people like Stephen Colbert. Alex Jones is clearly a lunatic who will say anything to frighten you into listening to him more and buying survival equipment from his many online stores/contributors. As for 9gag, I've never been there myself but have heard of it, although im not sure what humor preferences have to do with being well informed or thinking outside the box. Criticizing and generalizing in such manners are very common fallacies which instead of using logic and reason to be convincing, rely on emotionally appealing feelings which could very well be misleading. As for the people having arguments in this thread which are unrelated to the original post: Those of you claiming to have the full truth or are posting videos with anecdotal and unverified evidences, you are foolish, you are jumping the gun. You're begging to be shown just how ignorant you really are for believing that you have a full picture. Those of you labeling others as tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists, perhaps you should use reason to dismantle claims instead of stirring your opposition. I read these controversial threads and you all use such great words and have such great rhetoric, but in reality the content is just as hollow as the U.S presidential election in that it is mostly emotional diatribe, and in the end amounts to less difference than there is between a giant douche and a turd sandwhich. | ||
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Dr_Jones
Norway252 Posts
On September 12 2012 05:39 Bahamut1337 wrote: Simply a Islamic Jihad attack, one of over 15.000 which happened and will continue to happen untill Islam reaches a enlightment period. Your not save for Islamic Jihad, not in Paris NYC, London, Madrid, Buenos Aires or Tel Aviv. Mate, more people die every day from hunger than has died in total from terrorist attacks. Maybe you've also been blinded by government speech acts, targeting terrorism as a greater threat to human security than hunger, but hey, at least you have something to lull yourself back to sleep over... RIP 9/11 victims, but there are bigger disasters out there to get fed up over... | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
How many Iraqi and Afghan civilians have died due to the American occupations? It's tricky to find exact numbers, but let's just settle for a lot more than at 9/11. Now the attacks in Afghanistan at least was some kind of retaliation, but I somehow doubt that it really matters for the families that have been torn apart that had nothing to do with bin Laden. Personally I don't see how objectively the Iraq war was anything but a large scale 9/11 in and of itself. It's a massive war crime and crime against humanity. Yet the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is largely seen as something decent and accepted. Why are the hijackers at 9/11 seen as monsters, while there are countless videos of US soldiers in helicopters laughing about killing children and unarmed civilians that are being treated as heroes? Is this just a form of hate driven and extreme racism? | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
On September 12 2012 05:43 Dr_Jones wrote: Mate, more people die every day from hunger than has died in total from terrorist attacks. Maybe you've also been blinded by government speech acts, targeting terrorism as a greater threat to human security than hunger, but hey, at least you have something to lull yourself back to sleep over... RIP 9/11 victims, but there are bigger disasters out there to get fed up over... So we are going to focus on hunger ( which is more often then not the fault of people getting +6 childeren in African and poor Asian nations) instead of Islamic jihadists which want the entire world to embrace Islam by force? Lets not do that, I do not consider global hunger a problem, if people in Africa understand that condoms are the way to go Hunger would never be an issue. If Senegal cannot feed 4 million people 15 years ago, they cannot feed 15 million now... Self made suffering is not something I consider a problem. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On September 12 2012 05:43 Dr_Jones wrote: Mate, more people die every day from hunger than has died in total from terrorist attacks. Maybe you've also been blinded by government speech acts, targeting terrorism as a greater threat to human security than hunger, but hey, at least you have something to lull yourself back to sleep over... RIP 9/11 victims, but there are bigger disasters out there to get fed up over... Number of dead does not define the importance of an event. For example, in all likelihood, you didn't cry today, despite all those thousands of people that died. On the other hand, if I walk up to you when burying a loved one, and I tell you to stop crying because thousands of people died, you are probably going to smack some of my teeth out. There is a good reason that nearly everyone can remember where they were on 9/11. It left a lasting impression of people, the kind that few events do. For something to affect people that deeply, on such a scale, makes it monumental. You can argue that the flew kills more people than World war 1 and 2 combined, but you need to have a certain detachment from basic human discourse to think that just because the casualities are higher, it means something is more or less important. There are other factors, more crucial ones. Those define what events we do and do not remember. | ||
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Bahamut1337
Ghana205 Posts
On September 12 2012 05:48 Euronyme wrote: The thing about 9/11 is that what, about 3000 civilians died? How many Iraqi and Afghan civilians have died due to the American occupations? It's tricky to find exact numbers, but let's just settle for a lot more than at 9/11. Now the attacks in Afghanistan at least was some kind of retaliation, but I somehow doubt that it really matters for the families that have been torn apart that had nothing to do with bin Laden. Personally I don't see how objectively the Iraq war was anything but a large scale 9/11 in and of itself. It's a massive war crime and crime against humanity. Yet the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is largely seen as something decent and accepted. Why are the hijackers at 9/11 seen as monsters, while there are countless videos of US soldiers in helicopters laughing about killing children and unarmed civilians that are being treated as heroes? Is this just a form of hate driven and extreme racism? What I find funny is you blame a nation which gave the people a voice ( democracy) instead of the terrorists who attack markets. ampute the hands of 12 year old boys, and blow up people at a funeral. THe goal of the US is not occupy and destroy, the fact there is destruction can solely be blamed on the terrorists. | ||
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