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Do not use this thread to beg users for beta access or trade access with others. Thanks. |
By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would.
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That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely.
yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ
The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones.
no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush
Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch.
no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks
We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first
on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units
you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build
same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds
By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would.
well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core
there now your safe agaisnt everything
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ Show nested quote +The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Show nested quote +Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many unitsyou dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds Show nested quote +By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core
there now your safe agaisnt everything
You can get twice as many gateways, and twice as many gate units, but by the time you'd be hitting with that, especially against Terran, your advantage is negated because their critical tech such as stim etc kicks in. His point that Protoss don't simply gain a much better army from economy-focused builds is correct because unlike Zerg, they need to add on the additional production, and tech to make use of it.
Nexus first is currently punishable by decent players, myself and others here dislike the Mothership Core for negating the ability to pressure greedy openings. Greedy builds should BE greedy builds, not standard play. It's why I and many others hate the Queen change, Zerg gets a much safer path to the lategame where they're already really strong.
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On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ Show nested quote +The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Show nested quote +Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds Show nested quote +By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything
isnt purify only 20 seconds long? 75 energy?....bait them to cast it then wait till its done and now an easy victory. all this can be adjusted in beta, purify could require a core upgrade, who knows
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oh wow thats exciting. Feels so fast hahaha. HOTS going to be out in a few short months
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On August 17 2012 10:02 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything isnt purify only 20 seconds long? 75 energy?....bait them to cast it then wait till its done and now an easy victory. all this can be adjusted in beta, purify could require a core, who knows
20 seconds for them to finish there cannons and have sentries out
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On August 17 2012 10:02 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything isnt purify only 20 seconds long?....bait them to cast it then wait till its done and now an easy victory
Maybe if they have literally nothing else, but smart players won't use it at the first sign of trouble anyway. Good players as it is can hold a lot of Terran pressures with nexus first builds due to how refined they've got the opening down, mothership core will make that process so much easier.
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bleh getting spine crawler rushed on ladder will become so boring. i vote for plus one marine range ^^
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On August 17 2012 10:05 sam05396 wrote:
bleh getting spine crawler rushed on ladder will become so boring. i vote for plus one marine range ^^
you vote for bunkers?
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On August 17 2012 10:07 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:05 sam05396 wrote:
bleh getting spine crawler rushed on ladder will become so boring. i vote for plus one marine range ^^ you vote for bunkers?
Why are people mentioning the possibility of spine rushes anyway? Is there some change to the overlord spread creep or something that I'm unaware of?
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On August 17 2012 10:08 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:07 Forikorder wrote:On August 17 2012 10:05 sam05396 wrote:
bleh getting spine crawler rushed on ladder will become so boring. i vote for plus one marine range ^^ you vote for bunkers? Why are people mentioning the possibility of spine rushes anyway? Is there some change to the overlord spread creep or something that I'm unaware of?
well since marines cant hit spines while in a bunker no i am asking for plus one so that they can...
and now overlords can poop creep after evolution chamber
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On August 17 2012 10:05 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:02 SuperYo1000 wrote:On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything isnt purify only 20 seconds long?....bait them to cast it then wait till its done and now an easy victory Maybe if they have literally nothing else, but smart players won't use it at the first sign of trouble anyway. Good players as it is can hold a lot of Terran pressures with nexus first builds due to how refined they've got the opening down, mothership core will make that process so much easier.
...then SMART attackers will go to the main and harass that. you make it sound like terran cant hold virtually everything with there early stuff
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On August 17 2012 10:10 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:05 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 17 2012 10:02 SuperYo1000 wrote:On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything isnt purify only 20 seconds long?....bait them to cast it then wait till its done and now an easy victory Maybe if they have literally nothing else, but smart players won't use it at the first sign of trouble anyway. Good players as it is can hold a lot of Terran pressures with nexus first builds due to how refined they've got the opening down, mothership core will make that process so much easier. ...then SMART attackers will go to the main and harass that. you make it sound like terran cant hold virtually everything with there early stuff
tehy dont have sentrys where your from?
going into the main jsut cuts off your army from reinforcements, forces them to take tons of free damage and gurantees they die
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On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ Show nested quote +The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Show nested quote +Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds Show nested quote +By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything
Your argument went from being weak to just being a stream of tears.
Another one bites the dust.
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On August 17 2012 10:10 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:05 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 17 2012 10:02 SuperYo1000 wrote:On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything isnt purify only 20 seconds long?....bait them to cast it then wait till its done and now an easy victory Maybe if they have literally nothing else, but smart players won't use it at the first sign of trouble anyway. Good players as it is can hold a lot of Terran pressures with nexus first builds due to how refined they've got the opening down, mothership core will make that process so much easier. ...then SMART attackers will go to the main and harass that. you make it sound like terran cant hold virtually everything with there early stuff
At that stage of the game, small amounts of gateway units are damn good against small amounts of bio anyway. Nexus first, as the game stands is a risky but surprisingly safe build unless it's scouted super early, or blind-cheesed. With the added bonus of a death cannon I don't see how it's not going to become close to standard.
Incidentally I play Protoss and I dislike the mothership core, I feel the risk/reward element of SC2 decision-making is being eroded more and more.
Why do overlords poop creep at the evolution chamber stage anyway? I mean, I genuinely don't see why Zerg need that buff
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On August 17 2012 10:13 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything Your argument went from being weak to just being a stream of tears. Another one bites the dust.
TL:DR; i have no more arguments since you so amazingly destroyed them so im just going to call you a winer and pretend to take the moral highground to hide my lack of evidence that pool first gives you more economy than hatch first
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On August 17 2012 10:16 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:13 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything Your argument went from being weak to just being a stream of tears. Another one bites the dust. TL:DR; i have no more arguments since you so amazingly destroyed them so im just going to call you a winer and pretend to take the moral highground to hide my lack of evidence that pool first gives you more economy than hatch first
Well not to be a dick, but I at least attempted to address the points you made with my thoughts and I didn't see any kind of response to them
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On August 17 2012 10:16 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:13 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything Your argument went from being weak to just being a stream of tears. Another one bites the dust. TL:DR; i have no more arguments since you so amazingly destroyed them so im just going to call you a winer and pretend to take the moral highground to hide my lack of evidence that pool first gives you more economy than hatch first
?
You equated the difference between Forge --> Nexus and Nexus first to 4gating vs 8 gating. You're dumb and wrong.
By the way, MS Core costs gas, so either way we're cutting something. No Protoss is going Pylon Gate Nexus in the way that Zerg can go Overlord Pool Hatch.
The point is that Hatch first is more economical than Nexus first to begin with. 14 Pool then Hatch isn't really less economical than Nexus first in the sense that Zerg players aren't way behind when the Protoss Nexus firsts, hence why every PvZ isn't the Protoss player being ahead economically.
If you think Nexus first needs to be dealt with, then you need to show that there's actually a problem in PvZ right now where Protoss has a stronger economy. You can't, because they don't.
You need to realize that different races are different and that Zerg not being able to safely go Hatch first every game isn't the same a Protoss being able to go Nexus first safely. It's actually more like Protoss being able to go Nexus first, then Gateway without getting a Forge at all. That's our equivalently greedy build which dies to basically any Ling pressure whatsoever.
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On August 17 2012 10:18 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 17 2012 10:13 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything Your argument went from being weak to just being a stream of tears. Another one bites the dust. TL:DR; i have no more arguments since you so amazingly destroyed them so im just going to call you a winer and pretend to take the moral highground to hide my lack of evidence that pool first gives you more economy than hatch first Well not to be a dick, but I at least attempted to address the points you made with my thoughts and I didn't see any kind of response to them
i dont see any of your posts disagreeing with me
You equated the difference between Forge --> Nexus and Nexus first to 4gating vs 8 gating. You're dumb and wrong.
you said that pool first gives you a better econ then ahtch first and people only hatch first for more production (implying its needed as army)
By the way, MS Core costs gas, so either way we're cutting something. No Protoss is going Pylon Gate Nexus in the way that Zerg can go Overlord Pool Hatch.
because Zerg and Protoss are different races, but one gate expand is possible and pylon forge nexus (practically the same thing) is safe
The point is that Hatch first is more economical than Nexus first to begin with. 14 Pool then Hatch isn't really less economical than Nexus first in the sense that Zerg players aren't way behind when the Protoss Nexus firsts, hence why every PvZ isn't the Protoss player being ahead economically.
ya because protoss units are 1000000000 times more cost effective so Zerg need to be able to get the econ advantage
If you think Nexus first needs to be dealt with, then you need to show that there's actually a problem in PvZ right now where Protoss has a stronger economy. You can't, because they don't .
i never said that Nexus first is a problem that should be dealt with i said its good for every race to have options to punish builds like that
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Northern Ireland23759 Posts
On August 17 2012 10:20 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 10:18 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 17 2012 10:16 Forikorder wrote:On August 17 2012 10:13 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 09:56 Forikorder wrote:That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. yes they can its even safe to quickly get 3 CCs in TvZ The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. no its becasue you need the econ, you dont even have to make units for a good while unless they bunker rush noone goes hatch first and then makes a ton of lings to prepare for an attack unless its a bunker rush Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. no the injects wont, the reason you go pool first is 100% because of pylon blocks We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first on one base you 4 gate on 2 bases you 8 gate, sounds like twice as many units you dont really seem to understand basic logic, the faster you expand the better your economy will be thats a fact and cannot be disputed by anything, placing a hatch first will 100% of the time give you more econ then ANY other build same deal with nexus first, it gives you a noticeable econ lead over non-nexus first builds By the way, when Protoss Nexus first, we need to go Nexus Forge Gateway/Cannon Pylon. Zerg doesn't need to invest in a Spine crawler, or whatever, to be safe, and I can tell you that if Protoss had the option to be safe against any all-in or 6pool going Nexus Gateway Pylon Cyber, we would. well congratulations cause Blizz gave you the motherhip core there now your safe agaisnt everything Your argument went from being weak to just being a stream of tears. Another one bites the dust. TL:DR; i have no more arguments since you so amazingly destroyed them so im just going to call you a winer and pretend to take the moral highground to hide my lack of evidence that pool first gives you more economy than hatch first Well not to be a dick, but I at least attempted to address the points you made with my thoughts and I didn't see any kind of response to them i dont see any of your posts disagreeing with me
Agreed on the mothership core, technically agreed on the 2x economy allows a 4 gate to = an 8 gate, but I feel the latter point isn't as relevant because the timing of that sort of push isn't particularly dangerous at all. Either you cut probes to get it up, in which case you don't have 2x the economy of a saturated 1 base play, or you delay to get that saturation and delay the push until it's pretty bad.
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