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blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 16 2012 22:24 GMT
#341
On August 17 2012 07:23 Grumbels wrote:
Yes! The game needs more early game skirmishes and things like cannon rushes (or spine crawler rushes).


Ya now toss can feel what its like to be spine rushed (since toss can do cannon). They will see why zergs get so angry :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
August 16 2012 22:26 GMT
#342
Zerg get canon rushed in the early game, Protoss Spine pushed in the lategame, no need for early Spinecrawler shenanigans
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 22:28:44
August 16 2012 22:28 GMT
#343
On August 17 2012 07:24 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 07:23 Grumbels wrote:
Yes! The game needs more early game skirmishes and things like cannon rushes (or spine crawler rushes).


Ya now toss can feel what its like to be spine rushed (since toss can do cannon). They will see why zergs get so angry :D



sure zerg deserves some stuff like that but its more complicated then that. protoss only race that has to tech (mini tech to core) to get mobile anti air to deal with puking overlords.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
August 16 2012 22:30 GMT
#344
On August 17 2012 07:28 SuperYo1000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 07:24 blade55555 wrote:
On August 17 2012 07:23 Grumbels wrote:
Yes! The game needs more early game skirmishes and things like cannon rushes (or spine crawler rushes).


Ya now toss can feel what its like to be spine rushed (since toss can do cannon). They will see why zergs get so angry :D



sure zerg deserves some stuff like that but its more complicated then that. protoss only race that has to tech (mini tech to core) to get mobile anti air to deal with puking overlords.

core is done before a spine rush can start besides its a new games hard to say how mothership core will affect wall offs
HelloSon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
August 16 2012 22:30 GMT
#345
On August 17 2012 07:11 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 07:09 Forikorder wrote:
On August 17 2012 05:41 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
On August 17 2012 01:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On August 17 2012 01:30 cclim387 wrote:
On August 16 2012 21:23 Garmer wrote:
On August 16 2012 17:34 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On August 16 2012 12:52 bhfberserk wrote:
I thought there is a HOTS update at gamescon this week? any news on that?

Yes, I am wondering that too... Any new data? New things, stats changes, matches between pro players? ANYTHING PLEASE!

i found this
gamescom HOTS


haha that was quite painful to watch. ovie was pooping before lair?!

That was old change, you get Overlord creep spawn after Evolution Chamber.


Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

seriously?

the only way to get creep fast enough is to delay your spawning pool heavily to get out the early evo and even then you probably wont have creep spread in time to actually do anything worthwhile unless you want to spine rush


Yup seems fine to me. What's going to be nice is hiding tech buildings is going to be easier. Protoss/terran have always been able to hide their tech away from their main/natural if they choose to and most zergs won't scout it (on bigger maps). Now zerg can do the same :D

it'll be nice but anything worth hiding is at lair tech, no? i guess you could hide a roach or bling nest but if T/P scouts evo chamber, he'll know something is up.
yo
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
August 16 2012 22:31 GMT
#346
On August 17 2012 07:30 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 07:28 SuperYo1000 wrote:
On August 17 2012 07:24 blade55555 wrote:
On August 17 2012 07:23 Grumbels wrote:
Yes! The game needs more early game skirmishes and things like cannon rushes (or spine crawler rushes).


Ya now toss can feel what its like to be spine rushed (since toss can do cannon). They will see why zergs get so angry :D



sure zerg deserves some stuff like that but its more complicated then that. protoss only race that has to tech (mini tech to core) to get mobile anti air to deal with puking overlords.

core is done before a spine rush can start besides its a new games hard to say how mothership core will affect wall offs



oh i agree just saying theres more to early rush balance then saying once race can do this why cant other race do same
BeeNu
Profile Joined June 2011
615 Posts
August 16 2012 22:31 GMT
#347
Speaking of spine rushes, I wonder...if I spine rush a Toss player's front door as he tries to FFE, can the Mothership Core reach far enough to stop me from raping is wall?

I'm so excited to find out.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 16 2012 22:33 GMT
#348
On August 17 2012 07:30 HelloSon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 07:11 blade55555 wrote:
On August 17 2012 07:09 Forikorder wrote:
On August 17 2012 05:41 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
On August 17 2012 01:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On August 17 2012 01:30 cclim387 wrote:
On August 16 2012 21:23 Garmer wrote:
On August 16 2012 17:34 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On August 16 2012 12:52 bhfberserk wrote:
I thought there is a HOTS update at gamescon this week? any news on that?

Yes, I am wondering that too... Any new data? New things, stats changes, matches between pro players? ANYTHING PLEASE!

i found this
gamescom HOTS


haha that was quite painful to watch. ovie was pooping before lair?!

That was old change, you get Overlord creep spawn after Evolution Chamber.


Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

seriously?

the only way to get creep fast enough is to delay your spawning pool heavily to get out the early evo and even then you probably wont have creep spread in time to actually do anything worthwhile unless you want to spine rush


Yup seems fine to me. What's going to be nice is hiding tech buildings is going to be easier. Protoss/terran have always been able to hide their tech away from their main/natural if they choose to and most zergs won't scout it (on bigger maps). Now zerg can do the same :D

it'll be nice but anything worth hiding is at lair tech, no? i guess you could hide a roach or bling nest but if T/P scouts evo chamber, he'll know something is up.


Yeah that's what I mean in terms of if you want to do a roachling/bling bust or something you can hide the roach warren/bling nest which makes it so one scan won't necessarily show terran what's going on.

But I forgot about mothership core. I expect some annoying new cheeses in hots beta lol.

I am going to laugh when a toss player proxies a nexus and does a mothership core rush or something silly (obviously won't be at pro level I imagine but I would be shocked if I didn't face at least one toss on ladder who didn't do this)
When I think of something else, something will go here
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
August 16 2012 22:33 GMT
#349
On August 17 2012 07:31 BeeNu wrote:
Speaking of spine rushes, I wonder...if I spine rush a Toss player's front door as he tries to FFE, can the Mothership Core reach far enough to stop me from raping is wall?

I'm so excited to find out.



well...if a siege tank (13 range) can reach it while kissing a cc at natural then a mothership core can (13 range)
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 22:38:10
August 16 2012 22:37 GMT
#350
It won't work, because if he uses purify you can pick up your spine crawlers and leave as you wait for the purify ability to time out. It's only a good idea if you combine it with units to attack the uprooted spine crawlers, but with a forge expand there won't be so many units.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
August 16 2012 22:39 GMT
#351
On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:
Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block.

If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base.

Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds.

Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair


I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord.


Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
Desertfaux
Profile Joined June 2012
Netherlands276 Posts
August 16 2012 22:42 GMT
#352
Hey JB, I show you good time for beta key yes?
Rogue Deck
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
August 16 2012 23:01 GMT
#353
On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:
Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block.

If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base.

Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds.

Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair


I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord.


Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes.


It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player.
BrassMonkey27
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada616 Posts
August 16 2012 23:04 GMT
#354
On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:
Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block.

If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base.

Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds.

Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair


I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord.


Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes.


It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player.


Yup. All the other zergs that are claiming there won't be any balance issues stemming from this are biased as fuck. I've been playing Z since season one and I'm as jaded as they come but its painfully obvious that OL creep drop on hatch tech is going to cause some problems.
HoneyBadger.784 Diamond KR "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
August 16 2012 23:05 GMT
#355
On August 17 2012 08:04 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:
On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:
Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block.

If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base.

Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds.

Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair


I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord.


Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes.


It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player.


Yup. All the other zergs that are claiming there won't be any balance issues stemming from this are biased as fuck. I've been playing Z since season one and I'm as jaded as they come but its painfully obvious that OL creep drop on hatch tech is going to cause some problems.

Yeah. I mean, I know Cannon rushes can be annoying, but at least they only punish greedy play like Hatch first (and even then, not always). This would be a completely risk-free way to pretty much win the game or cause the Protoss to get way behind.
jakoh
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada237 Posts
August 16 2012 23:14 GMT
#356
Any news on new nydus worms? I wanna see what they look like in action.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 23:17:04
August 16 2012 23:16 GMT
#357
On August 17 2012 08:04 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:
On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:
Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block.

If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base.

Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds.

Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair


I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord.


Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes.


It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player.


Yup. All the other zergs that are claiming there won't be any balance issues stemming from this are biased as fuck. I've been playing Z since season one and I'm as jaded as they come but its painfully obvious that OL creep drop on hatch tech is going to cause some problems.


don't forget about the mothership core. That will reach the spine crawlers I believe and thus be defend able if you make the core at the natural nexus.

Right now it's all theory talking so should be interesting. If it is to strong it will be nerfed, if not then it'll stay simple as that
When I think of something else, something will go here
Protein
Profile Joined August 2010
United States132 Posts
August 16 2012 23:17 GMT
#358
Ugh. I guess this means it's over for the carrier.

I'm assuming everyone saw the battle report? Remember that time that the mech army got caught out without enough anti air vs 4 tempests? Imagine if that had been 4 carriers (and carriers aren't even considered good).

And then ask yourself... why are carriers being replaced by a unit that is even worse.

Oh well.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 23:18:32
August 16 2012 23:17 GMT
#359
On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:
On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:
Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block.

If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base.

Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds.

Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair


I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord.


Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes.


It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player.

just complete the wall before the OV can get there and its problem solved

now PvZ is equal on both sides, we cant hatch first becasue youll pylon block and you cant nexus first because well creep block the wall

Ugh. I guess this means it's over for the carrier.

I'm assuming everyone saw the battle report? Remember that time that the mech army got caught out without enough anti air vs 4 tempests? Imagine if that had been 4 carriers (and carriers aren't even considered good).

And then ask yourself... why are carriers being replaced by a unit that is even worse.

Oh well.


they shoot down the intercepters and live another day?
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
August 16 2012 23:19 GMT
#360
On August 17 2012 07:33 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 07:30 HelloSon wrote:
On August 17 2012 07:11 blade55555 wrote:
On August 17 2012 07:09 Forikorder wrote:
On August 17 2012 05:41 BrassMonkey27 wrote:
On August 17 2012 01:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On August 17 2012 01:30 cclim387 wrote:
On August 16 2012 21:23 Garmer wrote:
On August 16 2012 17:34 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On August 16 2012 12:52 bhfberserk wrote:
I thought there is a HOTS update at gamescon this week? any news on that?

Yes, I am wondering that too... Any new data? New things, stats changes, matches between pro players? ANYTHING PLEASE!

i found this
gamescom HOTS


haha that was quite painful to watch. ovie was pooping before lair?!

That was old change, you get Overlord creep spawn after Evolution Chamber.


Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered.

seriously?

the only way to get creep fast enough is to delay your spawning pool heavily to get out the early evo and even then you probably wont have creep spread in time to actually do anything worthwhile unless you want to spine rush


Yup seems fine to me. What's going to be nice is hiding tech buildings is going to be easier. Protoss/terran have always been able to hide their tech away from their main/natural if they choose to and most zergs won't scout it (on bigger maps). Now zerg can do the same :D

it'll be nice but anything worth hiding is at lair tech, no? i guess you could hide a roach or bling nest but if T/P scouts evo chamber, he'll know something is up.


Yeah that's what I mean in terms of if you want to do a roachling/bling bust or something you can hide the roach warren/bling nest which makes it so one scan won't necessarily show terran what's going on.

But I forgot about mothership core. I expect some annoying new cheeses in hots beta lol.

I am going to laugh when a toss player proxies a nexus and does a mothership core rush or something silly (obviously won't be at pro level I imagine but I would be shocked if I didn't face at least one toss on ladder who didn't do this)

Remember pf rush's? Like lift fly land build PEW PEW PEW kill your town hall! I'm expecting some hilarious proxy nexus warp in core in bronze league lololol

Should be funny
Jaedong.
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