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Do not use this thread to beg users for beta access or trade access with others. Thanks. |
On August 17 2012 07:09 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 05:41 BrassMonkey27 wrote:On August 17 2012 01:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 01:30 cclim387 wrote:On August 16 2012 21:23 Garmer wrote:On August 16 2012 17:34 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 16 2012 12:52 bhfberserk wrote:
I thought there is a HOTS update at gamescon this week? any news on that? Yes, I am wondering that too... Any new data? New things, stats changes, matches between pro players? ANYTHING PLEASE! i found this gamescom HOTS haha that was quite painful to watch. ovie was pooping before lair?! That was old change, you get Overlord creep spawn after Evolution Chamber. Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered. seriously? the only way to get creep fast enough is to delay your spawning pool heavily to get out the early evo and even then you probably wont have creep spread in time to actually do anything worthwhile unless you want to spine rush
Yeah also +1 is slowed as a result.. And your forced to invest in evo chamber which sometimes people delay till later. Youy can't use your evo for two things like you could for protoss FFE in bw (get +1 and cannons at the same time).
Yeah you can get spores but lets be real.
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Guys I think you are overlooking something here, what about Spine rushes against Terran? Just totally fuck their wall at the top of the ramp with your Overlord vision, outrange Bunkers, flood in with Speedlings once the wall falls.
I've already come up with half a dozen ways to cheese in hots, if I get in beta that's all I'm going to do.
MY BODY IS SO READY FOR THIS EXPANSION.
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On August 17 2012 08:28 BeeNu wrote:
Guys I think you are overlooking something here, what about Spine rushes against Terran? Just totally fuck their wall at the top of the ramp with your Overlord vision, outrange Bunkers, flood in with Speedlings once the wall falls.
I've already come up with half a dozen ways to cheese in hots, if I get in beta that's all I'm going to do.
MY BODY IS SO READY FOR THIS EXPANSION.
Err that won't be hard for terran to defend. Marines + bunker + repair = problem solved  .
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On August 17 2012 08:28 BeeNu wrote:
Guys I think you are overlooking something here, what about Spine rushes against Terran? Just totally fuck their wall at the top of the ramp with your Overlord vision, outrange Bunkers, flood in with Speedlings once the wall falls.
I've already come up with half a dozen ways to cheese in hots, if I get in beta that's all I'm going to do.
MY BODY IS SO READY FOR THIS EXPANSION.
how is the OV gonna survive long enough to spread creep?
and what if they get hellions+marines thent he hellions jsut toast the lings and the marines kill the spines before they even finish
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So is Protoss getting any new upgrades in HoTS? Like terran is getting reaper regen and battlecruiser speed while zerg is getting the hydra speed upgrade etc. Kinda seems like Protoss is getting the short end of the stick in HoTS.
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On August 17 2012 08:33 Buchan wrote:
So is Protoss getting any new upgrades in HoTS? Like terran is getting reaper regen and battlecruiser speed while zerg is getting the hydra speed upgrade etc. Kinda seems like Protoss is getting the short end of the stick in HoTS.
I dunno man mothership core seems really really good imo. Recall, 60 fps cannon thingy when activated for 20 seconds and instantly put energy on a unit/nexus.
Sounds pretty good to me and don't think protoss is really getting the short end of the stick other then their new units are kinda dumb.
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On August 17 2012 08:32 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:28 BeeNu wrote:
Guys I think you are overlooking something here, what about Spine rushes against Terran? Just totally fuck their wall at the top of the ramp with your Overlord vision, outrange Bunkers, flood in with Speedlings once the wall falls.
I've already come up with half a dozen ways to cheese in hots, if I get in beta that's all I'm going to do.
MY BODY IS SO READY FOR THIS EXPANSION. how is the OV gonna survive long enough to spread creep? and what if they get hellions+marines thent he hellions jsut toast the lings and the marines kill the spines before they even finish
yeah, T usually has map control in the early game where this spine crawler rush could be viable.
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On August 17 2012 08:17 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered. How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block. If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base. Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds. Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord. Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes. It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player. just complete the wall before the OV can get there and its problem solved now PvZ is equal on both sides, we cant hatch first becasue youll pylon block and you cant nexus first because well creep block the wall Show nested quote +Ugh. I guess this means it's over for the carrier.
I'm assuming everyone saw the battle report? Remember that time that the mech army got caught out without enough anti air vs 4 tempests? Imagine if that had been 4 carriers (and carriers aren't even considered good).
And then ask yourself... why are carriers being replaced by a unit that is even worse.
Oh well. they shoot down the intercepters and live another day?
Nexus first isn't the equivalent of Hatch first, because Protoss doesn't get production from Nexus first. Even if we do wall off, though, you can just send the Overlord to the Nexus position, spit Creep, and delay it. Pretty much no matter what happens, the Overlord is going to end up blocking something. because you don't finish the wall-off that early unless you go like Gateway Forge Cannon Pylon before Nexus, which is super uneconomical.
You already have a response to Nexus first. It's called doing an early pool build. You don't need another one. Evo chamber might delay you a bit, but it sure as hell doesn't delay you as much as Forge/Cannon/Gate/Pylon before Nexus does to complete a wall-off.
In what universe is Protoss favoured economically in PvZ? I mean, it's not like Nexus firsting gives Protoss a massive advantage over a standard 14 Pool, as opposed to Hatch First which is way better than Nexus first, hence why it's punishable. The reason is that Protoss has to delay production to Nexus first, whereas Zerg produces from Hatcheries, so their timing is unaffected.
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On August 17 2012 08:37 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:17 Forikorder wrote:On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered. How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block. If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base. Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds. Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord. Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes. It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player. just complete the wall before the OV can get there and its problem solved now PvZ is equal on both sides, we cant hatch first becasue youll pylon block and you cant nexus first because well creep block the wall Ugh. I guess this means it's over for the carrier.
I'm assuming everyone saw the battle report? Remember that time that the mech army got caught out without enough anti air vs 4 tempests? Imagine if that had been 4 carriers (and carriers aren't even considered good).
And then ask yourself... why are carriers being replaced by a unit that is even worse.
Oh well. they shoot down the intercepters and live another day? Nexus first isn't the equivalent of Hatch first, because Protoss doesn't get production from Nexus first. Even if we do wall off, though, you can just send the Overlord to the Nexus position, spit Creep, and delay it. Pretty much no matter what happens, the Overlord is going to end up blocking something. because you don't finish the wall-off that early unless you go like Gateway Forge Cannon Pylon before Nexus, which is super uneconomical. You already have a response to Nexus first. It's called doing an early pool build. You don't need another one. In what universe is Protoss favoured economically in PvZ? I mean, it's not like Nexus firsting gives Protoss a massive advantage over a standard 14 Pool, as opposed to Hatch First which is way better than Nexus first, hence why it's punishable. The reason is that Protoss has to delay production to Nexus first, whereas Zerg produces from Hatcheries, so their timing is unaffected.
Korea pvz is favoring toss (and has been past 3 months).
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On August 17 2012 08:39 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:37 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 08:17 Forikorder wrote:On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered. How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block. If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base. Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds. Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord. Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes. It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player. just complete the wall before the OV can get there and its problem solved now PvZ is equal on both sides, we cant hatch first becasue youll pylon block and you cant nexus first because well creep block the wall Ugh. I guess this means it's over for the carrier.
I'm assuming everyone saw the battle report? Remember that time that the mech army got caught out without enough anti air vs 4 tempests? Imagine if that had been 4 carriers (and carriers aren't even considered good).
And then ask yourself... why are carriers being replaced by a unit that is even worse.
Oh well. they shoot down the intercepters and live another day? Nexus first isn't the equivalent of Hatch first, because Protoss doesn't get production from Nexus first. Even if we do wall off, though, you can just send the Overlord to the Nexus position, spit Creep, and delay it. Pretty much no matter what happens, the Overlord is going to end up blocking something. because you don't finish the wall-off that early unless you go like Gateway Forge Cannon Pylon before Nexus, which is super uneconomical. You already have a response to Nexus first. It's called doing an early pool build. You don't need another one. In what universe is Protoss favoured economically in PvZ? I mean, it's not like Nexus firsting gives Protoss a massive advantage over a standard 14 Pool, as opposed to Hatch First which is way better than Nexus first, hence why it's punishable. The reason is that Protoss has to delay production to Nexus first, whereas Zerg produces from Hatcheries, so their timing is unaffected. Korea pvz is favoring toss (and has been past 3 months).
Hasn't got shit to do with Nexus first. Almost every KR Toss does a 2base all-in in PvZ, and, frankly, a lot of KR Zergs have been slumping pretty hard recently (DRG, Nestea, Symbol all playing bad lately). Don't think it really makes sense to call PvZ Toss favoured when basically no Protoss is very consistent in it outside of coinflipping with builds.
By the way, a 52% advantage in a tiny sample size isn't exactly what I'd call "favouring" in any real sense.
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I feel like all masters players should get free keys, of course I am biased though :\
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I know that I won't get beta, as I never do, but I can't wait to see content from those who do!
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Yeah, I wonder what players will be streaming HotS though. I don't think IdrA and Stephano will, for instance.
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On August 17 2012 08:44 Grumbels wrote:
Yeah, I wonder what players will be streaming HotS though. I don't think IdrA and Stephano will, for instance.
I know Destiny would!
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On August 17 2012 08:32 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:28 BeeNu wrote:
Guys I think you are overlooking something here, what about Spine rushes against Terran? Just totally fuck their wall at the top of the ramp with your Overlord vision, outrange Bunkers, flood in with Speedlings once the wall falls.
I've already come up with half a dozen ways to cheese in hots, if I get in beta that's all I'm going to do.
MY BODY IS SO READY FOR THIS EXPANSION. how is the OV gonna survive long enough to spread creep? and what if they get hellions+marines thent he hellions jsut toast the lings and the marines kill the spines before they even finish
If you do it off something like a 10pool you could have a few lings protecting ur overlord and then drop like 4 spines.
Or you could just build your spines in a bit of a hidden spot, crawl em forward with the overlord into range once they're done.
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*crosses fingers for a beta key* Thats good, HOTS will come up in 2013 then?
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I hope they learned from the 1.5 fiasco that while unpaid testers can potentially be good for evaluating the quality of the gameplay, they can't afford to skimp on professional QA to watch for and fix technical issues.
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On August 17 2012 08:37 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:17 Forikorder wrote:On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered. How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block. If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base. Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds. Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord. Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes. It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player. just complete the wall before the OV can get there and its problem solved now PvZ is equal on both sides, we cant hatch first becasue youll pylon block and you cant nexus first because well creep block the wall Ugh. I guess this means it's over for the carrier.
I'm assuming everyone saw the battle report? Remember that time that the mech army got caught out without enough anti air vs 4 tempests? Imagine if that had been 4 carriers (and carriers aren't even considered good).
And then ask yourself... why are carriers being replaced by a unit that is even worse.
Oh well. they shoot down the intercepters and live another day? Nexus first isn't the equivalent of Hatch first, because Protoss doesn't get production from Nexus first. Even if we do wall off, though, you can just send the Overlord to the Nexus position, spit Creep, and delay it. Pretty much no matter what happens, the Overlord is going to end up blocking something. because you don't finish the wall-off that early unless you go like Gateway Forge Cannon Pylon before Nexus, which is super uneconomical. You already have a response to Nexus first. It's called doing an early pool build. You don't need another one. Evo chamber might delay you a bit, but it sure as hell doesn't delay you as much as Forge/Cannon/Gate/Pylon before Nexus does to complete a wall-off. In what universe is Protoss favoured economically in PvZ? I mean, it's not like Nexus firsting gives Protoss a massive advantage over a standard 14 Pool, as opposed to Hatch First which is way better than Nexus first, hence why it's punishable. The reason is that Protoss has to delay production to Nexus first, whereas Zerg produces from Hatcheries, so their timing is unaffected.
hatch first is greediest build a zerg can do and nexus first is greediest build a terran can do and CC first is greediest build a terran can do
every race should have MULTIPLE strats that can punish hatch/nexus/CC first Zerg doesnt without blindly all-inning
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On August 17 2012 09:15 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 08:37 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 08:17 Forikorder wrote:On August 17 2012 08:01 Shiori wrote:On August 17 2012 07:39 Noobity wrote:On August 17 2012 06:26 Plansix wrote:On August 17 2012 06:18 Existor wrote:Can anyone confirm this? I play zerg and to be frank this sounds incredibly overpowered. How it can be overpowered? Overlord is easy to kill with marine, stalker, photon and purify. Also it allows to prevent pylon block. If you worry about 3rd, then send anti-air unit one minute earlier to kill overlord before you place your 3rd base. Zergs not got an alternative to pylon blocks and photon rushes. Same for protoss - they got Mothership core against that and to support them with a lot more overpowered stuff like recall and Purify, that prevents any rush in seconds. Overlord creep at evo-chamber already mentioned in interview with David Kim and we saw it at GamesCom video as a confirmation that it's still here. And I'm glad that they allowed to zergs some more variety gameplay before lair I don't know, spine crawler rush sounds bad. Also, creep does not disappear that fast. Maybe they will speed it up if it comes from an overlord. Really? I mean, zerg have been dealing with bunker, cannon, and spine crawler rushes since the beginning. While I don't think spine crawler rushes are going to become commonplace, if they did I can't imagine how that would be any worse than any of the other static defense rushes. It's overpowered because Protoss doesn't have anti-air early enough to kill an Overlord before it starts spewing Creep. Further, even if you kill the Overlord, it takes a full minute for the Creep to fully dissipate. It would make FFEing literally impossible, which is extremely stupid since it would require almost no investment from the Zerg player. just complete the wall before the OV can get there and its problem solved now PvZ is equal on both sides, we cant hatch first becasue youll pylon block and you cant nexus first because well creep block the wall Ugh. I guess this means it's over for the carrier.
I'm assuming everyone saw the battle report? Remember that time that the mech army got caught out without enough anti air vs 4 tempests? Imagine if that had been 4 carriers (and carriers aren't even considered good).
And then ask yourself... why are carriers being replaced by a unit that is even worse.
Oh well. they shoot down the intercepters and live another day? Nexus first isn't the equivalent of Hatch first, because Protoss doesn't get production from Nexus first. Even if we do wall off, though, you can just send the Overlord to the Nexus position, spit Creep, and delay it. Pretty much no matter what happens, the Overlord is going to end up blocking something. because you don't finish the wall-off that early unless you go like Gateway Forge Cannon Pylon before Nexus, which is super uneconomical. You already have a response to Nexus first. It's called doing an early pool build. You don't need another one. Evo chamber might delay you a bit, but it sure as hell doesn't delay you as much as Forge/Cannon/Gate/Pylon before Nexus does to complete a wall-off. In what universe is Protoss favoured economically in PvZ? I mean, it's not like Nexus firsting gives Protoss a massive advantage over a standard 14 Pool, as opposed to Hatch First which is way better than Nexus first, hence why it's punishable. The reason is that Protoss has to delay production to Nexus first, whereas Zerg produces from Hatcheries, so their timing is unaffected. hatch first is greediest build a zerg can do and nexus first is greediest build a terran can do and CC first is greediest build a terran can do every race should have MULTIPLE strats that can punish hatch/nexus/CC first Zerg doesnt without blindly all-inning
That's not really the point. Zerg players can Hatch first safely in TvZ, for example, whereas Terran players can't necessarily CC first safely. That's not really an imbalance, it's that the two build are different because they accomplish different things. The reason you get a Hatch against Terran is because you need the production, not the Drones. Similarly, the reason you go 14 Pool against Toss is not just to kill Pylon blocks, but also because you get a quicker Queen, which means your Injects will quickly put you ahead of a quick Hatch. The reason this is viable against Protoss is because Protoss pressures come later than Terran pressures, and because Terran can prevent you from taking your natural if there isn't Creep there whereas Protoss can't really do that in most cases.
Zerg has plenty of easy ways to discourage Hatch first. Something as simple as a 13 or 14 pool is often enough to get the Protoss player to throw down a Forge. Again, though, it's moot because a 17 Nexus still goes down after or simultaneously with a standard Zerg 15 Pool into Hatch so you're pretty hard pressed to say it's any greedier.
The idea that Nexus first is on par with Hatch first just baffles me because the two builds operate completely differently. One of them slightly delays the initial Zerglings for production and economy, whereas the Protoss Nexus first basically cuts production entirely for a slightly earlier Nexus. We can't come at you with 2x the units just because we opened Nexus first. We just get our expo down at a similar time as the Zerg player (who is taking 3 bases anyway and quickly out macros us by, I believe, the 7 minute mark).
There's no reason to believe that Nexus first puts Toss in too good a position.
To demonstrate the flaw in your logic further: Terran and Zerg can make Static defense after their basic military production building! Therefore, Toss should be able to make Cannons after Gateway.
Oh wait, no they shouldn't be Toss as a race works completely differently and the Gateway has an entirely different mechanic.
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Northern Ireland26035 Posts
On August 16 2012 02:58 pallad wrote:Btw .. i always had bad luck with beta invites.. so i just wanna say something... + Show Spoiler +Im gonna trade my sister for beta account..-_-
For future note if I get in... is she hot?
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EPT
