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So let me make sure I understand this properly, leaving all subjective items out of it:
- MaximusBlack paid for Desrow's flight, food, and provided lodging for a week, as well as $500 cash and a $130 microphone.
- A donation thing was set up, which made more money than expected, but which was not accounted for in the initial agreed-upon price because donations are unpredictable.
- Having effectively made over $1000 (including flight, lodging, food) for a week of work, as well as gaining more viewers and subscribers in a week than he'd gotten in the previous 3 months due to exposure on MB's channel, Desrow returns home.
- A week later, Desrow decides to ask for more money, because MB made more than he did.
- MB refuses, so Desrow tells him he's contacted major figures in eSports and ruined his reputation.
- MB decides to give him an extra $300 just to put an end to it.
- Desrow goes public anyway, but in a non-objective way.
I know things about how business fees work, and Desrow is entirely in the wrong. If I agree to pay someone $500 for their services, and then as a result of their services I make $3000, that person is not entitled to any extra money just because I did well.
To put this in perspective, Blair Witch Project cost $25,000 to make, and after it was filmed it was sold to Fox for $1,100,000. It then went on to make $250,000,000 in box office and DVD sales. It was sold to Fox for 44x what it cost to make, and then it went on to make Fox 10,000x more than it cost to make. The people who made the movie don't then get to demand more money from Fox because their movie did well, they have to live with the contract at hand. What they can do, however, is use the success of that movie to get a bigger cut out of the next one. That is how business works.
By the same token, there is absolutely no standing for Desrow to have done any of the things he did after leaving MB's house, be it soiling his name, demanding more money, or anything else. What he should have done was make a note of that success, and then the next time an opportunity like this came up, he would say "The last time I did this, the person I coached made a bunch of money by setting up donations. I would like so-many dollars, plus so-much percent of a similar donation drive." You don't try to extract more money than was agreed upon from the last guy, you parlay that into more money from the next guy. That is how you do business: by using past successes to demonstrate value for future work. Trying to extract more money from the last guy just makes you come across as petty and greedy, regardless of whether it's the case.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 11 2012 15:36 beesinyoface wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:34 opterown wrote:On August 11 2012 15:29 Drizzt3 wrote:On August 11 2012 15:14 beesinyoface wrote:On August 11 2012 15:11 Drizzt3 wrote:
I don't know why people in this thread are wondering why MaximusBlack got on Quantic. He's a very dedicated player with a great attitude, and while not up to a professional level of play he's not SUPER far away either. Most importantly, he has a large fanbase and a popular stream, which generates much more exposure for sponsors than simply being slightly more skilled would. I think alot of people forget that the point of recruiting a player onto your team in the first place is to generate exposure for your sponsors...that's what makes any pickup justifiable, not just their skill. Uh no he's pretty far away from doing actually OK at a major tournament. I said he wasn't SUPER far away from being up to a professional level of play, which is true. Many actual pros wouldn't do what you consider OK at major tournaments either. In case you haven't noticed, major tournaments have gotten so insanely hard that even world class pros, let alone the lower tier pros, don't always make top spots. nah, he is SUPER far away. i'm not a hater, just stating my opinion of his skill (i like his WCF) Is WCF still updated? Most of my time is spent in China and good ol' Youtube is blocked there.
still on, the newest one was a few days ago =]
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Canada13410 Posts
On August 11 2012 15:44 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:36 beesinyoface wrote:On August 11 2012 15:34 opterown wrote:On August 11 2012 15:29 Drizzt3 wrote:On August 11 2012 15:14 beesinyoface wrote:On August 11 2012 15:11 Drizzt3 wrote:
I don't know why people in this thread are wondering why MaximusBlack got on Quantic. He's a very dedicated player with a great attitude, and while not up to a professional level of play he's not SUPER far away either. Most importantly, he has a large fanbase and a popular stream, which generates much more exposure for sponsors than simply being slightly more skilled would. I think alot of people forget that the point of recruiting a player onto your team in the first place is to generate exposure for your sponsors...that's what makes any pickup justifiable, not just their skill. Uh no he's pretty far away from doing actually OK at a major tournament. I said he wasn't SUPER far away from being up to a professional level of play, which is true. Many actual pros wouldn't do what you consider OK at major tournaments either. In case you haven't noticed, major tournaments have gotten so insanely hard that even world class pros, let alone the lower tier pros, don't always make top spots. nah, he is SUPER far away. i'm not a hater, just stating my opinion of his skill (i like his WCF) Is WCF still updated? Most of my time is spent in China and good ol' Youtube is blocked there. still on, the newest one was a few days ago =]
I love WCF. I know he's not the highest ever player or even super pro or super close but hes an great entertainer.
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On August 11 2012 15:42 DiMono wrote:
So let me make sure I understand this properly, leaving all subjective items out of it:
- MaximusBlack paid for Desrow's flight, food, and provided lodging for a week, as well as $500 cash and a $130 microphone.
- A donation thing was set up, which made more money than expected, but which was not accounted for in the initial agreed-upon price because donations are unpredictable.
- Having effectively made over $1000 (including flight, lodging, food) for a week of work, as well as gaining more viewers and subscribers in a week than he'd gotten in the previous 3 months due to exposure on MB's channel, Desrow returns home.
- A week later, Desrow decides to ask for more money, because MB made more than he did.
- MB refuses, so Desrow tells him he's contacted major figures in eSports and ruined his reputation.
- MB decides to give him an extra $300 just to put an end to it.
- Desrow goes public anyway, but in a non-objective way.
I know things about how business fees work, and Desrow is entirely in the wrong. If I agree to pay someone $500 for their services, and then as a result of their services I make $3000, that person is not entitled to any extra money just because I did well.
To put this in perspective, Blair Witch Project cost $25,000 to make, and after it was filmed it was sold to Fox for $1,100,000. It then went on to make $250,000,000 in box office and DVD sales. It was sold to Fox for 44x what it cost to make, and then it went on to make Fox 10,000x more than it cost to make. The people who made the movie don't then get to demand more money from Fox because their movie did well, they have to live with the contract at hand. What they can do, however, is use the success of that movie to get a bigger cut out of the next one. That is how business works.
By the same token, there is absolutely no standing for Desrow to have done any of the things he did after leaving MB's house, be it soiling his name, demanding more money, or anything else. What he should have done was make a note of that success, and then the next time an opportunity like this came up, he would say "The last time I did this, the person I coached made a bunch of money by setting up donations. I would like so-many dollars, plus so-much percent of a similar donation drive." You don't try to extract more money than was agreed upon from the last guy, you parlay that into more money from the next guy. That is how you do business: by using past successes to demonstrate value for future work. Trying to extract more money from the last guy just makes you come across as petty and greedy, regardless of whether it's the case.
I think you might be a little bit crazy if you think you left any subjectiveness out of your account.
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On August 11 2012 15:32 beesinyoface wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:29 Drizzt3 wrote:On August 11 2012 15:14 beesinyoface wrote:On August 11 2012 15:11 Drizzt3 wrote:
I don't know why people in this thread are wondering why MaximusBlack got on Quantic. He's a very dedicated player with a great attitude, and while not up to a professional level of play he's not SUPER far away either. Most importantly, he has a large fanbase and a popular stream, which generates much more exposure for sponsors than simply being slightly more skilled would. I think alot of people forget that the point of recruiting a player onto your team in the first place is to generate exposure for your sponsors...that's what makes any pickup justifiable, not just their skill. Uh no he's pretty far away from doing actually OK at a major tournament. I said he wasn't SUPER far away from being up to a professional level of play, which is true. Many actual pros wouldn't do what you consider OK at major tournaments either. In case you haven't noticed, major tournaments have gotten so insanely hard that even world class pros, let alone the lower tier pros, don't always make top spots. Maybe you didn't understand what I originally posted. Watch 5 of his games when he streams, you will see he is SUPER far away from doing OK at major tournaments. Is that better?
Well he's not with Quantic because he's a professional player anyway. He's on the team as a media personality. People like him help the eSports industry grow by getting people interested in the game. Sure he's not as big as Day9, but he is for sure just as passionate. Plus, the eSports industry can use all the help it can get. As he does his thing as a media personality, who says he can't work at becoming a professional player as well? He's killing two birds with one stone from the way I see it.
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this whole deal was handled pretty poorly, if Maximus was gonna make a donation box and put his name + desrow's name on it they shud split this amount 50/50
everything else, be it 500$ for coaching fees, lodging, food w/e else shudn't have anything to do with the donations, maximus was just paying for desrow's services (however mediocre they may be)
and the whole fiance thing is completely irrelevent to this entire thing, it just means desrow is extremely awkward when it comes to women and that's it
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Desrow comes off looking as a scumbag, which is sad.
It is incredibly low-status to ask for more compensation than originally agreed. How anyone doesn't know this is beyond me.
And then to come on the forum and post about it as if MaximusBlack was in the wrong..
The dude obviously has problems.
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On August 11 2012 15:49 ROOTFayth wrote:
this whole deal was handled pretty poorly, if Maximus was gonna make a donation box and put his name + desrow's name on it they shud split this amount 50/50
everything else, be it 500$ for coaching fees, lodging, food w/e else shudn't have anything to do with the donations, maximus was just paying for desrow's services (however mediocre they may be)
and the whole fiance thing is completely irrelevent to this entire thing, it just means desrow is extremely awkward when it comes to women and that's it
Desrow's name was only on it because it was basically asking people to help Maximus pay for Desrow's Fee(which was pre-established) and anything that went beyond that was to get him to MLG.
Read the receipt its pretty straightforward.
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On August 11 2012 15:49 ROOTFayth wrote:
this whole deal was handled pretty poorly, if Maximus was gonna make a donation box and put his name + desrow's name on it they shud split this amount 50/50
everything else, be it 500$ for coaching fees, lodging, food w/e else shudn't have anything to do with the donations, maximus was just paying for desrow's services (however mediocre they may be)
and the whole fiance thing is completely irrelevent to this entire thing, it just means desrow is extremely awkward when it comes to women and that's it
I mean, if they wanted to make things completely fair, MB could have set it up like a stake deal. Donations-500(x%) So if the donations didn't break $500, he wasn't completely in the hole. Desrow may have handled it poorly, but I definitely don't think he was in the wrong to speak out about how he was swindled, especially if MB put both their names on the donation box.
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On August 11 2012 15:49 ROOTFayth wrote:
this whole deal was handled pretty poorly, if Maximus was gonna make a donation box and put his name + desrow's name on it they shud split this amount 50/50
everything else, be it 500$ for coaching fees, lodging, food w/e else shudn't have anything to do with the donations, maximus was just paying for desrow's services (however mediocre they may be)
and the whole fiance thing is completely irrelevent to this entire thing, it just means desrow is extremely awkward when it comes to women and that's it
The donation box was titled "DesRow Costs/MLG"
Why would DesRow be deserving of 50% of the proceeds? The donation is to cover the costs of Desrow's employment, with the rest going towards MB's MLG trip. Anything more than that is just fans wanting to go above and beyond.
To be clear, it wasn't a 'DesRow/MaximusBlack' donation box. It was a 'DesRow's cost was 1k, donate to help me cover it'. DesRow was being payed the same whether people donated 0 dollars or 10,000 dollars.
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so it wasn't to get desrow to MLG as well? thought it was both of them
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On August 11 2012 15:49 PencilFlavor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:32 beesinyoface wrote:On August 11 2012 15:29 Drizzt3 wrote:On August 11 2012 15:14 beesinyoface wrote:On August 11 2012 15:11 Drizzt3 wrote:
I don't know why people in this thread are wondering why MaximusBlack got on Quantic. He's a very dedicated player with a great attitude, and while not up to a professional level of play he's not SUPER far away either. Most importantly, he has a large fanbase and a popular stream, which generates much more exposure for sponsors than simply being slightly more skilled would. I think alot of people forget that the point of recruiting a player onto your team in the first place is to generate exposure for your sponsors...that's what makes any pickup justifiable, not just their skill. Uh no he's pretty far away from doing actually OK at a major tournament. I said he wasn't SUPER far away from being up to a professional level of play, which is true. Many actual pros wouldn't do what you consider OK at major tournaments either. In case you haven't noticed, major tournaments have gotten so insanely hard that even world class pros, let alone the lower tier pros, don't always make top spots. Maybe you didn't understand what I originally posted. Watch 5 of his games when he streams, you will see he is SUPER far away from doing OK at major tournaments. Is that better? Well he's not with Quantic because he's a professional player anyway. He's on the team as a media personality. People like him help the eSports industry grow by getting people interested in the game. Sure he's not as big as Day9, but he is for sure just as passionate. Plus, the eSports industry can use all the help it can get. As he does his thing as a media personality, who says he can't work at becoming a professional player as well? He's killing two birds with one stone from the way I see it.
Are you even reading what the fuck your posting? You said he was not "SUPER far away from being at a professional level" and I said he is clearly far away.
Why are you bringing up other irrelevant shit no one cares about?
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On August 11 2012 15:49 ROOTFayth wrote:
this whole deal was handled pretty poorly, if Maximus was gonna make a donation box and put his name + desrow's name on it they shud split this amount 50/50
everything else, be it 500$ for coaching fees, lodging, food w/e else shudn't have anything to do with the donations, maximus was just paying for desrow's services (however mediocre they may be)
and the whole fiance thing is completely irrelevent to this entire thing, it just means desrow is extremely awkward when it comes to women and that's it
I disagree. MaximusBlack paid for, out of his own pocket, around $1.1k to have him there, more than the ad revenue he made for that week ($850). They agreed on $500 beforehand, and Desrow actually expected less apparently. That, in my opinion, is a fair amount of money.
A flat rate is much better than an a fluctuating, random number like donations (unless you're expecting MB to pay $500 PLUS ad revenue, which is silly). The bulk of the donations came in the form of ridiculously big numbers ($800 and $500 if I recall correctly), towards the end of the week, after MB had to tolerate constant sex references about his fiance (which is relevant given the personal nature of the endeavor) and had considered just stopping the boot camp.
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On August 11 2012 15:49 ROOTFayth wrote:
this whole deal was handled pretty poorly, if Maximus was gonna make a donation box and put his name + desrow's name on it they shud split this amount 50/50
everything else, be it 500$ for coaching fees, lodging, food w/e else shudn't have anything to do with the donations, maximus was just paying for desrow's services (however mediocre they may be)
and the whole fiance thing is completely irrelevent to this entire thing, it just means desrow is extremely awkward when it comes to women and that's it
Fayth, someone already posted the receipt that already debunks that, and I remember distinctly the wording of the chip in.
It was to pay for desrow's costs and flight/trip to mlg. The second part, which is the only part that would be financial gain, had no mention of desRow. And DesRow's comments on his fiance do have relevance, it shows his character. He was asked repeatedly to stop and kept doing it, it shows he has a lack of character and hurts his credibility. If you think that someone's reputation and personality doesn't affect business then you're mistaken.
I tried not to sound like a fanboy, but watching bootcamp every day, I witnissed almost everything that MB said desRow did, meaning he instantly has more credibility than desrow. And even if MB was in the wrong, desrow goign public even after getting EXTRA money he didnt deserve is just sick. Desrow has lost all my respect, he's a shady person and a complete jackass.
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On August 11 2012 15:47 pigmanbear wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:42 DiMono wrote:
So let me make sure I understand this properly, leaving all subjective items out of it:
- MaximusBlack paid for Desrow's flight, food, and provided lodging for a week, as well as $500 cash and a $130 microphone.
- A donation thing was set up, which made more money than expected, but which was not accounted for in the initial agreed-upon price because donations are unpredictable.
- Having effectively made over $1000 (including flight, lodging, food) for a week of work, as well as gaining more viewers and subscribers in a week than he'd gotten in the previous 3 months due to exposure on MB's channel, Desrow returns home.
- A week later, Desrow decides to ask for more money, because MB made more than he did.
- MB refuses, so Desrow tells him he's contacted major figures in eSports and ruined his reputation.
- MB decides to give him an extra $300 just to put an end to it.
- Desrow goes public anyway, but in a non-objective way.
I know things about how business fees work, and Desrow is entirely in the wrong. If I agree to pay someone $500 for their services, and then as a result of their services I make $3000, that person is not entitled to any extra money just because I did well.
To put this in perspective, Blair Witch Project cost $25,000 to make, and after it was filmed it was sold to Fox for $1,100,000. It then went on to make $250,000,000 in box office and DVD sales. It was sold to Fox for 44x what it cost to make, and then it went on to make Fox 10,000x more than it cost to make. The people who made the movie don't then get to demand more money from Fox because their movie did well, they have to live with the contract at hand. What they can do, however, is use the success of that movie to get a bigger cut out of the next one. That is how business works.
By the same token, there is absolutely no standing for Desrow to have done any of the things he did after leaving MB's house, be it soiling his name, demanding more money, or anything else. What he should have done was make a note of that success, and then the next time an opportunity like this came up, he would say "The last time I did this, the person I coached made a bunch of money by setting up donations. I would like so-many dollars, plus so-much percent of a similar donation drive." You don't try to extract more money than was agreed upon from the last guy, you parlay that into more money from the next guy. That is how you do business: by using past successes to demonstrate value for future work. Trying to extract more money from the last guy just makes you come across as petty and greedy, regardless of whether it's the case. I think you might be a little bit crazy if you think you left any subjectiveness out of your account.
sorry man but anyone with real world business experience is going to tell you that this is how things work. just look at professional sports. jeremy lin is a good example - he was getting paid a pittance last season when he was tearing up the sport and bringing the knicks brand a lot of good press and exposure. so now he knows what he's worth and is getting paid a lot more with a new team. it would be utterly retarded of him to phone up the owner of the knicks and demand more money for a season he already played.
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On August 11 2012 15:58 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:49 ROOTFayth wrote:
this whole deal was handled pretty poorly, if Maximus was gonna make a donation box and put his name + desrow's name on it they shud split this amount 50/50
everything else, be it 500$ for coaching fees, lodging, food w/e else shudn't have anything to do with the donations, maximus was just paying for desrow's services (however mediocre they may be)
and the whole fiance thing is completely irrelevent to this entire thing, it just means desrow is extremely awkward when it comes to women and that's it The donation box was titled "DesRow Costs/MLG" Why would DesRow be deserving of 50% of the proceeds? The donation is to cover the costs of Desrow's employment, with the rest going towards MB's MLG trip. Anything more than that is just fans wanting to go above and beyond. To be clear, it wasn't a 'DesRow/MaximusBlack' donation box. It was a 'DesRow's cost was 1k, donate to help me cover it'. DesRow was being payed the same whether people donated 0 dollars or 10,000 dollars.
well that's entirely different from what I had heard
if it was this clear why the fuck is desrow whining about anything, he got paid for his job and this is it...
he should be sending the 300$ back to MB
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On August 11 2012 15:47 pigmanbear wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:42 DiMono wrote:
So let me make sure I understand this properly, leaving all subjective items out of it:
- MaximusBlack paid for Desrow's flight, food, and provided lodging for a week, as well as $500 cash and a $130 microphone.
- A donation thing was set up, which made more money than expected, but which was not accounted for in the initial agreed-upon price because donations are unpredictable.
- Having effectively made over $1000 (including flight, lodging, food) for a week of work, as well as gaining more viewers and subscribers in a week than he'd gotten in the previous 3 months due to exposure on MB's channel, Desrow returns home.
- A week later, Desrow decides to ask for more money, because MB made more than he did.
- MB refuses, so Desrow tells him he's contacted major figures in eSports and ruined his reputation.
- MB decides to give him an extra $300 just to put an end to it.
- Desrow goes public anyway, but in a non-objective way.
I know things about how business fees work, and Desrow is entirely in the wrong. If I agree to pay someone $500 for their services, and then as a result of their services I make $3000, that person is not entitled to any extra money just because I did well.
To put this in perspective, Blair Witch Project cost $25,000 to make, and after it was filmed it was sold to Fox for $1,100,000. It then went on to make $250,000,000 in box office and DVD sales. It was sold to Fox for 44x what it cost to make, and then it went on to make Fox 10,000x more than it cost to make. The people who made the movie don't then get to demand more money from Fox because their movie did well, they have to live with the contract at hand. What they can do, however, is use the success of that movie to get a bigger cut out of the next one. That is how business works.
By the same token, there is absolutely no standing for Desrow to have done any of the things he did after leaving MB's house, be it soiling his name, demanding more money, or anything else. What he should have done was make a note of that success, and then the next time an opportunity like this came up, he would say "The last time I did this, the person I coached made a bunch of money by setting up donations. I would like so-many dollars, plus so-much percent of a similar donation drive." You don't try to extract more money than was agreed upon from the last guy, you parlay that into more money from the next guy. That is how you do business: by using past successes to demonstrate value for future work. Trying to extract more money from the last guy just makes you come across as petty and greedy, regardless of whether it's the case. I think you might be a little bit crazy if you think you left any subjectiveness out of your account.
I listed only the facts, verifiable. I didn't say anything about what happened during the week, nothing about what Desrow got paid vs what he normally makes in a week, just the quantifiable results, to put forth a complete view of what Desrow got out of it (we know what MB got out of it, being training). The point is that Desrow came out well ahead, and then tried to get more that he wasn't entitled to. That's dirty pool.
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On August 11 2012 15:59 beesinyoface wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:49 PencilFlavor wrote:On August 11 2012 15:32 beesinyoface wrote:On August 11 2012 15:29 Drizzt3 wrote:On August 11 2012 15:14 beesinyoface wrote:On August 11 2012 15:11 Drizzt3 wrote:
I don't know why people in this thread are wondering why MaximusBlack got on Quantic. He's a very dedicated player with a great attitude, and while not up to a professional level of play he's not SUPER far away either. Most importantly, he has a large fanbase and a popular stream, which generates much more exposure for sponsors than simply being slightly more skilled would. I think alot of people forget that the point of recruiting a player onto your team in the first place is to generate exposure for your sponsors...that's what makes any pickup justifiable, not just their skill. Uh no he's pretty far away from doing actually OK at a major tournament. I said he wasn't SUPER far away from being up to a professional level of play, which is true. Many actual pros wouldn't do what you consider OK at major tournaments either. In case you haven't noticed, major tournaments have gotten so insanely hard that even world class pros, let alone the lower tier pros, don't always make top spots. Maybe you didn't understand what I originally posted. Watch 5 of his games when he streams, you will see he is SUPER far away from doing OK at major tournaments. Is that better? Well he's not with Quantic because he's a professional player anyway. He's on the team as a media personality. People like him help the eSports industry grow by getting people interested in the game. Sure he's not as big as Day9, but he is for sure just as passionate. Plus, the eSports industry can use all the help it can get. As he does his thing as a media personality, who says he can't work at becoming a professional player as well? He's killing two birds with one stone from the way I see it. Are you even reading what the fuck your posting? You said he was not "SUPER far away from being at a professional level" and I said he is clearly far away. Why are you bringing up other irrelevant shit no one cares about? First of all, I wasn't the one who said that. What I'm trying to to say is that people posting here keep acting like Quantic hired MaximusBlack because of his skill. Clearly that's not the case.
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On August 11 2012 15:58 ROOTFayth wrote:
so it wasn't to get desrow to MLG as well? thought it was both of them
MB explained in stream that he wasn't going to attend MLG because of Anaheim and the traveling costs he had already spent, but he was going to add the donation box so that if he got enough, he would go. DesRow wasn't involved. I can definitely see how someone who wasn't aware might be confused, but then all that MaximusBlack can be accused of is improper wording, his own intentions are clear. For DesRow to demand more money because of something like that is pretty shameful.
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seems to me desrow went and asked for more money just because some retards told him he deserved more, hopefully desrow is gonna fix this, send the money back and make public apologies
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EPT
