• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:43
CEST 21:43
KST 04:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier2Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League49Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164Rollback Netcode in Brood War144
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins Server Blocker SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact
Tourneys
WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? BW General Discussion SCHNAIL now supports Remastered SOOP Announces New Women's Monthly Tournament Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Women's StarCraft] Tier 8 CK 2026-10-20 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Canadian Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11240 users

Stop the Korean Invasion! - Page 23

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 26 Next All
sickle
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
New Zealand656 Posts
June 06 2012 14:27 GMT
#441
Its pretty bullshit that at a foreign event, out of the 16 invites, 13 of them are Koreans. Of course the NA scene wont grow when there are no opportunities for their own players.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
June 06 2012 14:28 GMT
#442
it's hard to be emotionally attached to most Korean sc2pros, there are a few exceptions but most of them showcase little to no personality, do lame interviews, have mediocre/horrible IDs and almost non of them speak English. Yes, they play at a lot higher lvl then average foreign pros, yet i'd still rather watch a tourney with the 16 best foreigners than the 16 best players overall. That's just me, no need to agree with it or hate on it.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
hoop1
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain242 Posts
June 06 2012 14:28 GMT
#443
fuck off merkel, stop invading europe
defilerCHAN
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
June 06 2012 14:28 GMT
#444
How does MLG ever want to present their product to a larger audience if its all about Random Korean 1 who likes noodles and plays all day against Random Korean 2 who likes noodles and plays all day?


Noodles?
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
bri9and
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States246 Posts
June 06 2012 14:28 GMT
#445
My favorite player is a Korean, does that destroy your logic OP? I am from America.

I like watching my favorite players play, and win.. I like foreign players, but if I had to choose, I'd rather see top notch players go at it.. if they happen to be from Korea, so be it. Wanting a good "mix" means that the quality of competition will be hampered from day one. You want your "foreign" player to win? Root for him, he just might.
I don't have time to play with myself
zedi
Profile Joined October 2010
165 Posts
June 06 2012 14:28 GMT
#446
On June 06 2012 23:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.

If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans.


Terrible, terrible post.

Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.


Then I guess you don't care much about the game. Watch WWE instead, it seems to be what you want - arranged, personality focused drama.


The best part about that is that this actually will happen (not with WWE though, they're already going down) and it's your loss.
frogrubdown
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1266 Posts
June 06 2012 14:28 GMT
#447
On June 06 2012 23:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:20 RageBot wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:08 Jojo131 wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:02 Klaas wrote:
On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1"


Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify.

Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most.

But see, the middle ground will be "found" once foreigners actually earn those spots, not by artificially controlling who gets to compete.


And how is that middle ground going to be found if the entrie foreign scene collapses due to lack of interest from casual fans?


That's not remotely what is happening.

And Stephano is the best any foreigner has been in relation to Koreans since 2010/very, very early 2011.


I'm going to assume you're just misremembering the dates of Stephano's big victories (IPL 3 wasn't until October 2011).

How was Stephano the best foreigner during a period in which he wasn't winning anything important and Idra, Jinro, Thorzain, Huk and Naniwa were all enjoying vastly more success (ordered very roughly in terms of when they saw their success during the period you're talking about)?
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
June 06 2012 14:29 GMT
#448
On June 06 2012 23:27 sickle wrote:
Its pretty bullshit that at a foreign event, out of the 16 invites, 13 of them are Koreans. Of course the NA scene wont grow when there are no opportunities for their own players.


Those " invites " qualified through the Spring Arena's and they qualified for the Spring Arena's through online qualifiers, NO ONE was invited.
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
June 06 2012 14:29 GMT
#449
On June 06 2012 23:28 frogrubdown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:20 RageBot wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:08 Jojo131 wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:02 Klaas wrote:
On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1"


Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify.

Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most.

But see, the middle ground will be "found" once foreigners actually earn those spots, not by artificially controlling who gets to compete.


And how is that middle ground going to be found if the entrie foreign scene collapses due to lack of interest from casual fans?


That's not remotely what is happening.

And Stephano is the best any foreigner has been in relation to Koreans since 2010/very, very early 2011.


I'm going to assume you're just misremembering the dates of Stephano's big victories (IPL 3 wasn't until October 2011).

How was Stephano the best foreigner during a period in which he wasn't winning anything important and Idra, Jinro, Thorzain, Huk and Naniwa were all enjoying vastly more success (ordered very roughly in terms of when they saw their success during the period you're talking about)?

That's not at all what I said.
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
June 06 2012 14:30 GMT
#450
On June 06 2012 23:27 sickle wrote:
Its pretty bullshit that at a foreign event, out of the 16 invites, 13 of them are Koreans. Of course the NA scene wont grow when there are no opportunities for their own players.


None of the 16 players are invited.
goiflin
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1218 Posts
June 06 2012 14:30 GMT
#451
On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.

If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans.


Terrible, terrible post.

Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.


There's plenty interesting to root for! Just because YOU don't find any of the korean players to be interesting, doesn't mean everybody does! Besides, it creates awesome storylines where you have the underdog foreigners who need to push through the open bracket play to get into the main tournament! It's fun to see who makes it through and who drops out! At least, for me.

Regardless of viewership concerns, I'm more concerned with the level of gameplay. If the tournament is banning players because they're too good, as far as I'm concerned (and I'm certain I'm not the only one), the integrity of the competition is completely and utterly thrown out the window in favour of getting players who are "more interesting".

What I think needs to happen, is that korean teams need to market their players and brand in the west more heavily, so that the average viewer can be more connected to those players. As it is, there isn't nearly as much korean influence in our market as the western teams have at the moment, and while that's pretty natural, it's a situation that can be changed (for the better).
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
June 06 2012 14:31 GMT
#452
On June 06 2012 23:28 zedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.

If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans.


Terrible, terrible post.

Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.


Then I guess you don't care much about the game. Watch WWE instead, it seems to be what you want - arranged, personality focused drama.


The best part about that is that this actually will happen (not with WWE though, they're already going down) and it's your loss.

It's our loss that we want to see a game focused on skill rather than on seeing more white people? I don't know about you, but I'd be more likely to stop watching if the latter occurred.
frogrubdown
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
1266 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 14:32:42
June 06 2012 14:31 GMT
#453
On June 06 2012 23:29 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:28 frogrubdown wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:20 RageBot wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:08 Jojo131 wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:02 Klaas wrote:
On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1"


Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify.

Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most.

But see, the middle ground will be "found" once foreigners actually earn those spots, not by artificially controlling who gets to compete.


And how is that middle ground going to be found if the entrie foreign scene collapses due to lack of interest from casual fans?


That's not remotely what is happening.

And Stephano is the best any foreigner has been in relation to Koreans since 2010/very, very early 2011.


I'm going to assume you're just misremembering the dates of Stephano's big victories (IPL 3 wasn't until October 2011).

How was Stephano the best foreigner during a period in which he wasn't winning anything important and Idra, Jinro, Thorzain, Huk and Naniwa were all enjoying vastly more success (ordered very roughly in terms of when they saw their success during the period you're talking about)?

That's not at all what I said.


Oh, that's what you meant.

edit: You do see that what you said is ambiguous though, right? It can also mean that since 2010, Stephano has been the best of any foreigner in relation to Koreans. English quite generally exhibits this kind of structural ambiguity with optional clauses.
fcb10
Profile Joined February 2012
113 Posts
June 06 2012 14:31 GMT
#454
racists
Domus
Profile Joined March 2011
510 Posts
June 06 2012 14:31 GMT
#455
Closed/Regional tournaments are not a weird thing at all, in fact it is a very normal thing in any sport to have a hierarchy of competition. Like the regional level, national level, "continental" level, and international level, and then there are things like the champions league (soccer). Each level has its own rewards and benefits. The thing is, many people don't want every event to be a champions league. This is currently the case with MLG and many offline tournaments though. People want to see their favorite players compete at a level that they can actually compete at in an offline setting.

I think that MLG will facilitate this at some point in the future, but you can expect it to be PPV (not a problem for many, right?).
Chilling5pr33
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Germany518 Posts
June 06 2012 14:31 GMT
#456
On June 06 2012 23:26 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:23 VirgilSC2 wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:15 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:12 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:10 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]

Your team is Romania.

It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea.


Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT!


When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself.

You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic.


When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later.......

You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow.


No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill.


Asian Cup - Soccer. Running for 50 odd years. Only allows Asian teams.

Just what criteria of success you using there?


Is this a joke?



No. This competition doesn't allow equal competition based on skill. It restricts by region. I contend it's successful by the length of time it's been running, therefore providing a counterexample to your statement.

Rebuttal?

The faucet in the guest bedroom of my house.


Lol, nice. I asked for his criteria of success specifically because length of time isn't a great indicator. But you'd be hard pressed to argue the Asian Cup isn't successful anyway.


Everyone should watch what they want to watch.
How about a cup of only your frieds and relatives.
Well that wont attract too much viewers would it?
That Asians like to watch Asians is fine for me that US only want to watch US and EU to watch EU is fine for me as well.
As long as there are enough who want to see what MLG does deliver (top level play regardless of skin color and home nation) im fine with all of that.
F-
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
June 06 2012 14:32 GMT
#457
Why is this a debate?

You guys who don't like Koreans do realize that the Blue Stream, the second free stream, will be almost 100% US Nationals, right? So if you don't want to watch Koreans and just Americans battle it out, watch that all weekend and tune in to see Stephano when his games are on the main stage.

Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
sickle
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
New Zealand656 Posts
June 06 2012 14:32 GMT
#458
On June 06 2012 23:29 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:27 sickle wrote:
Its pretty bullshit that at a foreign event, out of the 16 invites, 13 of them are Koreans. Of course the NA scene wont grow when there are no opportunities for their own players.


Those " invites " qualified through the Spring Arena's and they qualified for the Spring Arena's through online qualifiers, NO ONE was invited.


Was expecting this reply. Throughout the last few MLG season they have been inviting more and more koreans into pool play until now, the entire tourny is 90% korean. Or are you telling me that every single korean came to MLG on his own, and went through the open quailifers on his own. I know a few did, but most were invited and seeded.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 14:35:11
June 06 2012 14:32 GMT
#459
On June 06 2012 23:28 zedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.

If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans.


Terrible, terrible post.

Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.


Then I guess you don't care much about the game. Watch WWE instead, it seems to be what you want - arranged, personality focused drama.


The best part about that is that this actually will happen (not with WWE though, they're already going down) and it's your loss.


What.

Btw, Koreans have been coming to tournaments for quite some time now. The scene hasn't stopped growing since then. When DRG and Genius battled it out the GSL stream flipped its shit so hard that I missed the entire first game. Why? Because so many people wanted to see the best of the best. How often do MLG streams crash for that reason?
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Purple Haze
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom200 Posts
June 06 2012 14:32 GMT
#460
On June 06 2012 23:28 frogrubdown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2012 23:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On June 06 2012 23:20 RageBot wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:08 Jojo131 wrote:
On June 06 2012 22:02 Klaas wrote:
On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1"


Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify.

Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most.

But see, the middle ground will be "found" once foreigners actually earn those spots, not by artificially controlling who gets to compete.


And how is that middle ground going to be found if the entrie foreign scene collapses due to lack of interest from casual fans?


That's not remotely what is happening.

And Stephano is the best any foreigner has been in relation to Koreans since 2010/very, very early 2011.


I'm going to assume you're just misremembering the dates of Stephano's big victories (IPL 3 wasn't until October 2011).

How was Stephano the best foreigner during a period in which he wasn't winning anything important and Idra, Jinro, Thorzain, Huk and Naniwa were all enjoying vastly more success (ordered very roughly in terms of when they saw their success during the period you're talking about)?


He's saying that Stephano now is closer to Korean levels than any foreigner has been since those days, when HuK, Jinro, IdrA etc. were competitive in the GSL.
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 26 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IntoTheTV X SOOP
01:00
Replay Cast Group A
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 565
UpATreeSC 98
BRAT_OK 44
JuggernautJason43
MindelVK 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 631
Dewaltoss 154
ProTech153
Mind 85
Zeus 51
Dota 2
syndereN156
Counter-Strike
fl0m1550
Fnx 1061
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0167
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3616
Liquid`Hasu401
Trikslyr94
Other Games
summit1g1569
FrodaN922
Beastyqt743
B2W.Neo487
Pyrionflax205
Railgan5
Organizations
Other Games
WardiTV241
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hinosc 40
• Reevou 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 24
• 80smullet 19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade406
Other Games
• imaqtpie938
• Shiphtur643
• WagamamaTV322
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
4h 48m
The PondCast
14h 18m
Kung Fu Cup
15h 18m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 15h
Reynor vs Zoun
Neeb vs Rogue
FEL
3 days
Patches Events
3 days
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
FEL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.