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Austria24417 Posts
On June 06 2012 23:03 Opera wrote:Crossposted in a blog about the same topic. My thoughts that noone care about  I think there's no problem with having a lot of Korean players to international events because these players are the best and the fact that they're Korean doesn't matter. There are more good Korean players because they developped professional Starcraft more that ten years ago and they have a real eSport industry with sponsors that are not from the PC world. In the USA or Europe, all sponsors are PC gear related or energy drinks / soda / snacks which feed most of us during gaming sessions. That's why there is more money in professional Starcraft in Korea than "in the west". Just as the college sports league and sports scolarships in the USA allows students who are good at a given sport to train in an almost professional environment during their studies and produce lots of great athletes in all sports. Their system is better, and the passion the whole nation puts in it allows these athletes to perform and be recognized for it. Nobody complains that there are more good American than Europeans basketball players. Nobody complains that Brazil and Argentina have a tradition of great football players. Hence, there is no problem with the fact that Korea produce great RTS players. If "foreign" teams want to be able to perform the way Korean teams do, they have to set up the same kind of infrastructure Korean teams do. I think it's important to organize international tournaments, because it produce great games between the best players in the world. But if you want more "foreigners" in it, you should work to promote eSport in your country. Only a change of mentality regarding gamers and eSport from western countries can lead to this performance path. Because it will allow players to start training the efficient way, teams will have better sponsors and therefore the money to hire dedicated coaches, B-teamers/practice partners and so on. Because I doubt Razer and Steelseries, with the number of team they sponsor, can give them as much money as LG or SKT do. TLDR : Phase 1 : Change mentality about eSport in your country Phase 2 : Wait 10 years Phase 3 : Profit
This post is great. I'm not entirely sure about the money part of it though, I think most Korean teams are actually having trouble with that. Incredible Miracle is one example here I think. Before LG got on board, they pretty much had to rely on partnerships with other teams (such as Quantic for a short time), Zenex is not too rich either I think and so on.
What I completely agree with is everything else though.
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On June 06 2012 23:07 Xpace wrote:
This thread needs a poll. In fact, most threads that are ignorant opinions of less intelligent individuals should have polls, so that the community can show him/her just how naive and childish they are with their extreme ethnocentrism and whatnot.
I do hope you're getting a ban for that.
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On June 06 2012 23:08 JPP wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. This is funny because the world cup does the exact thing the OP is talking about. They're limiting the amount of teams per region so more than just the "best" nations can participate, and therefore more people can get the excitement form seeing their team\country play.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.
The world cup does that because when the world cup was founded you had a ride a fucking boat to get to the tournament so travelling from Brazil to Japan wasn't remotely feasible.
And Europe gets far more spots because we're better at football.
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On June 06 2012 23:04 mTwTT1 wrote:
sorry for lashing out im just super frustrated at not only myself but at how lazy, dumb, clueless the western esports scene is compared to the korean scene. when i think about the differences between both scenes it feels like were at least 10-20 years behind them and that to me is so disheartening
What a bullshit, we are not behind we just got more to life then playing 24/7... western gamers will have a pretty good life also without or after gaming/sc2 while for the korean gamers its either making it to the top or have a factory job for 100h/week... logical koreans take gaming so much more serious and they can keep it going 24/7 for 365 days a year
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On June 06 2012 23:10 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. Asian Cup - Soccer. Running for 50 odd years. Only allows Asian teams. Just what criteria of success you using there?
Yeah we should have those cups everywhere. Wait oh we do. Wait and there is a World cup as well. And the money given to the teams are equal to the amount of people watching wait this all makes sence.
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I don't know what game you watch, but the one i watch (SC2) is about two human beings under nicknames controlling bugs and spaceships on a computer game.
I don't care (neither I or most of the guys who watch this game) if the human being under the nickname is a guy, a girl, korean, japanese, canadian or congolese.
I want to see the best games ever, every time. And if today the team infrastructure and sponsors favours korean players, let it be.
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On June 06 2012 23:10 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. Asian Cup - Soccer. Running for 50 odd years. Only allows Asian teams. Just what criteria of success you using there?
Is this a joke?
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I think everybody agrees that koreans have an advantage over foreigners because of the training partners they can have. The language barrier is present, and definitily hurts even the foreigners in korea.
Still, that is not a reason to close our doors to them. And even if in the past , doors have been closen to us, its not in our interest to do the same.
Then again, i dont make a living out of all of this, so who am I to speak?
EDIT; what im trying to say is that other things than practice regime (a lot of people are calling foreigners lazy, which is very hurtful for them, knowing the effort that is put into their game) come into account, and thats where koreans are best IMO.
But still, no restrictions, we are worth better than that, and we want the best games!
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On June 06 2012 23:06 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:02 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. I wouldn't choose which side of a war to fight on based on where I happened to be born. If I lived in North Korea and we went to war with the US I'm pretty sure I would fight for the other side in an instant (assuming I have the knowledge that I do currently). People who fight for their country BECAUSE its their country are a problem. People who fight for a cause, regardless of country, are to be respected. The same holds for Starcraft. The hole point of fighting for a place and the people in that place is because you share a history together and that IS THE CAUSE! That's why you care for old friends and family, because other than your history with them those people are probably worse than your average human on earth. And from this we get to loyalty. But that has no place in your world where we act like machines where if 1>0 we choose 1.
This may blow your mind but where I come from if a family member is an asshole we don't speak to them.
And I understand human nature, I'm not a fucking idiot. I'm a cognitive science major and I have studied evolutionary psychology. I am making a distinction between human nature at its most base and unreflective, and a higher normative standard that civilized people try and hold themselves to.
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On June 06 2012 23:04 JinThevalley wrote:
While many people watch sports (including e-sports) because they enjoy the games and the sport in itself, few (I hope) would disagree that if it becomes important to you who wins the match this increases the overall entertainment value of the match. Thing is that people often root for people related to geography or nationality.
To use a real sport example, the European football championship is coming up. The level of football is likely to be very high and I will probably have a look, but i won't really care who wins the games as Norway did not qualify (as usual). However, if Norway by some sort of miracle should qualify the next time the tournament would become much more interesting because I would have someone to root for (certainly not because their good).
Same thing with Korean only vs. mixed tournaments. I enjoy to watch GSL or GSTL because they provide excellent games but i only really care who wins if there are foreigners included. MLG on the other hand may not have the same level in their games, but the entertainment value is upped as a result of having someone to root for. If MLG becomes a korean only tournament this will serve to alienate those who primarily watch because they cheer for some foreigner ,while removing much of the entertainment value for those who enjoy both the game and have someone they root for. Thus, this type of tournament will only serve those who only watch because they enjoy good matches. This would probably result in decrease in viewers already following Starcraft while at the same time it is likely that SC will attract fewer new viewers.Besides, we already have top notch, jetlag free tournaments in GSL and GSTL to provide the highest level of SC2 games.
best post so far can agree 100%
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On June 06 2012 23:12 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:10 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. Asian Cup - Soccer. Running for 50 odd years. Only allows Asian teams. Just what criteria of success you using there? Is this a joke?
No. This competition doesn't allow equal competition based on skill. It restricts by region. I contend it's successful by the length of time it's been running, therefore providing a counterexample to your statement.
Rebuttal?
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Wish these posts would get deleted, stop complaining about koreans they have as much right to be here as anyone else and probably more so because they put in the dedication to become good at starcraft.
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I dont care about nationality of SC2 players. What I care about is only quality of games.
In fact I watch Koreans much more often than foreigners. I just cant stand foreigners games anymore, unless they are top of the top (Naniwa, Stephano, Thorzain) - too unrefined play, too many mistakes.
Besides it is much more exciting when foreigner wins in tournament stacked up with top of the top Koreans.
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On June 06 2012 23:06 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:02 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. I wouldn't choose which side of a war to fight on based on where I happened to be born. If I lived in North Korea and we went to war with the US I'm pretty sure I would fight for the other side in an instant (assuming I have the knowledge that I do currently). People who fight for their country BECAUSE its their country are a problem. People who fight for a cause, regardless of country, are to be respected. The same holds for Starcraft. People who fight for their country BECAUSE its their country are exhibiting human nature. Patriotism may not be rational, but it sure as hell is a powerful emotion. You just want to ignore it. Good luck with that.
oh come on.
patriotism is human nature?
it's all about education and school system, patriotism is not in your genes, at all.
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On June 06 2012 23:10 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:08 JPP wrote:On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. This is funny because the world cup does the exact thing the OP is talking about. They're limiting the amount of teams per region so more than just the "best" nations can participate, and therefore more people can get the excitement form seeing their team\country play. WRONG WRONG WRONG. The world cup does that because when the world cup was founded you had a ride a fucking boat to get to the tournament so travelling from Brazil to Japan wasn't remotely feasible. And Europe gets far more spots because we're better at football.
As far as i know the places in the World Cup are based on the members of the local football association, like the UEFA.
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This is a really sensitive and complicated issue. I am not sure the OP did the best job in addressing.
I actully do agree with him though, to a certain extent. Some of the most fun I have ever had at (only been to one in person) or watching an MLG has been pulling for people I know / personal favorite players running through the open bracket. Early last year a really good high masters but not big name guy could still make a very respectable run through there.
Storylines and personal favorites are what makes a huge bracket tournament structure like the open bracket so appealing. I know these guys... either I have played them, or met them, and I am way more invested in how they do. It was funner for me personally when the game was a little less mature and a little more wild-wild-westy and these guys had a better shot. Now it is only the (more talented and harder working) Koreans who have a reasonable chance at doing well there, and it takes some drama out of it for me.
Don't get me wrong... the single greatest thrill of my BW/SC2 watching career was standing right behind Boxer in person at MLG Orlando during some of his pool play matches. And I am waaaaaay too excited about the KeSPA matches on saturday. But I do acknowledge the OP has something of a point
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On June 06 2012 23:16 Toxi78 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:06 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 23:02 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. I wouldn't choose which side of a war to fight on based on where I happened to be born. If I lived in North Korea and we went to war with the US I'm pretty sure I would fight for the other side in an instant (assuming I have the knowledge that I do currently). People who fight for their country BECAUSE its their country are a problem. People who fight for a cause, regardless of country, are to be respected. The same holds for Starcraft. People who fight for their country BECAUSE its their country are exhibiting human nature. Patriotism may not be rational, but it sure as hell is a powerful emotion. You just want to ignore it. Good luck with that. oh come on. patriotism is human nature? it's all about education and school system, patriotism is not in your genes, at all.
Human nature is a product of your upbringing as well surely? I've never heard 'human nature' to refer specifically to genetic makeup. I think patriotism is common and universal enough to be classified as human nature.
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On June 06 2012 23:15 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:12 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:10 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:
[quote]
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. Asian Cup - Soccer. Running for 50 odd years. Only allows Asian teams. Just what criteria of success you using there? Is this a joke? No. This competition doesn't allow equal competition based on skill. It restricts by region. I contend it's successful by the length of time it's been running, therefore providing a counterexample to your statement. Rebuttal?
My rebuttal is that you're really really dumb. The world cup doesn't let non Brazilians play for Brazil either, what is this madness?
MLG is not a nation based competition, it is not WCG or the Blizzard knock off that's currently going on.
It's an open tournament like the US open or Wimbledon.
Comparing a nation based tournament like the World Cup to a non national based tournament is retarded.
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I'm not sure why being Korean is an unconquerable barrier to being able to like, identify with, and cheer for a player. Stork's still my #1 RTS player, and I only saw him in streams and VODs with Korean commentary and through translated interviews...but I can still get to know and appreciate his personality and come to identify with him. Sure, it's not the same as having a foreign player who posts on TL, streams every day, and posts twitter updates every five minutes...but the lack of that hardly makes it impossible to get to know someone.
So...my advice? Learn about the Korean players, get to know them, watch their games, read their interviews, and you'll find that it gets just as exciting and personal as if you were watching foreigners.
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This threat doesnt make any sence.
The viewer count doesnt decrease in the finals so what does the people here do?
Cry for help becouse nothing will change like this.
If like 1.000.000 Koreans would watch the MLG and they only want to watch Koreans vs. Koreans and non others guess what would happen 
We are bitches for the viewer count no one can tell me something else.
Even the commercials would be Korean then ^^
And im one of those viewers who want to see the best players.
Damn me right?
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EPT
