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On June 06 2012 22:55 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:52 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:50 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:48 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:44 mx.raaawwwr wrote:
So instead of foreigners playing better, we should not have Koreans in our tournaments? Then what is the point of a tournament if it is not to see who is better. You just totally undermine the whole concept of a tournament. Who the hell will care if you win a MLG when the real competition is in Korea?
-Random player nr 1 wins MLG-
Random fan goes "WOOOO"!
/facepalm racist community. Finding the best in a subset can be exciting too. Do you not understand that? For example there's an Asian Cup for Soccer. Apparently this is pointless, because it doesn't have the best teams in the world competing. You should go tell all the players of the championship teams over the years their win meant nothing. Well in a way it does and top level players or fans who actually understand the game will most likely watch european or SA matches. Unless you happen to live in one of the countries competing. Then it becomes fun to cheer for your own. See the point? Yeah ofcourse if thats your only point to watch it than dont watch it they will change it instandly if the viewer count drops alot when only Koreans are left but its regulating itself. Becouse you know what its all about the money.
Well yeah, it is pretty much self-regulating I agree. The OP was raising the point that this could happen, should Korean domination continue its upward trend. It's clear many people here just don't understand or can't see this side of the coin. I think it's a point well raised.
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Norway25712 Posts
On June 06 2012 22:58 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:57 Dodgin wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your examples are terrible, It's a video game competition. WTF he is calling me a racist because I don't like a full house korean tournament and my examples are terrible? OMG this forum. Well, you are using going to war for your country, risking your life, and deserting to an invading alien race as a euphemism for koreans playing in foreign tournaments, it's a shitty example and doesn't work out.
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Austria24417 Posts
On June 06 2012 22:46 Snoodles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 06 2012 22:38 Snoodles wrote:
This thread is very sad. If you can't beat them, ban them right?
No ban them because they're stream cheating and probably hacking too. /sarcasm That, and we need to set an international ban on practicing more than 4 hours a day. We westerners believe in human rights and minimum wage and all that shit, and koreans have an unfair advantage by practicing 12 hours a day. You guys are watching SWEAT SHOP e-sports, shame on you. I will only watch MADE IN AMERICA, local, no-added hormones, organic, grass-fed, fair-trade, equal opportunity, affirmative action Esports.
LOL
I have quite some thoughts on this topic, might post a wall of text again sometime today. EDIT: oh wait I just did, lol.
Basically what I think is that competition at the highest level is needed for all the surroundings (drama, rivalries, great storylines, etc.) to exist in the first place. If tournaments started focusing on that they would
A) lose all the viewers who want to see the best possible games.
B) run out of drama pretty fast as people get bored by that quickly and then there's no backup plan (can't rely on great gameplay to jump in and save the day once the drama is gone because damn, we banned the best players in the world...)
C) hurt the scene tremendously. How would the Korean scene react? They'd quickly start closing their doors on us foreigners. And really, it's been the open Korean doors that made your favorites possible. Where would Idra be if he hadn't had his Brood War background and hadn't had the chance to stay and train in a Korean pro gaming house?
The huge foreign prodigies are the ones who can compete at the highest level but the chance to see who can do this might disappear. If MLG shuts the door on Koreans and GSL + Korean teams shut theirs on foreigners, we have a separated scene where you'll never find out if Stephano can actually beat the best Koreans.
And then you'll have a foreign scene utterly dominated by the few people that still remain from an era when competition was at its hardest, there will be a few rivalries between people you could never legitimately call "the best in the world" but you'll also never find out how good they really are.
I just don't see any good coming from this at all.
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On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic.
Don't tell me what I am and what i am not. If England loses in the ro8 you have nothing to complain because your team participated. Would you watch only Romanian football just because it's better?
Yeah right...
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On June 06 2012 22:58 Maxquatre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:52 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:
[quote]
The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do  Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football. You mean they've been flown to France, Spain because they showed talent ? That's where they became the best. Which is exactly what happens in Sc2. They are also flown to Europe at 16-18 which is well into their development. Except they are paid and practice with good players while foreigners going to korea have to spend lots of money and can pretty much only ladder. Foreigners are paid by their teams to be in Korea. That's why they are all staying there since the beginning of SC2, right ? I wonder why we hold tournament in the west since all foreigners are in Korea, oh wait.
They all left because they were either A) Too bad at the game to have any success in Korean or B) Because they were half good they could make more money outside of Korea where everyone is shitty.
Every top foreigner could easily be living in Korea full time right now if they wanted to, but they chose not to.
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You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic.
Not just that, he's a fan of white people beating down on poor defenseless Asians (at StarCraft), that monster.
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Whether people like it or not, viewership does not follow skill and most people are more interested in players from the Americas and Europe than Korea. Which is why I think it is a dangerous path for the long term prospects of the SC2-scene to have international tournaments as dominated by Koreans as what we're currently seeing in MLG.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341580
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On June 06 2012 23:01 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. Don't tell me what I am and what i am not. If England loses in the ro8 you have nothing to complain because your team participated. Would you watch only Romanian football just because it's better? Yeah right...
I watch the Spanish league every weak and there's not a single English player in that league right because Spain has the best teams.
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Norway25712 Posts
On June 06 2012 23:00 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:55 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:52 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:50 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:48 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:44 mx.raaawwwr wrote:
So instead of foreigners playing better, we should not have Koreans in our tournaments? Then what is the point of a tournament if it is not to see who is better. You just totally undermine the whole concept of a tournament. Who the hell will care if you win a MLG when the real competition is in Korea?
-Random player nr 1 wins MLG-
Random fan goes "WOOOO"!
/facepalm racist community. Finding the best in a subset can be exciting too. Do you not understand that? For example there's an Asian Cup for Soccer. Apparently this is pointless, because it doesn't have the best teams in the world competing. You should go tell all the players of the championship teams over the years their win meant nothing. Well in a way it does and top level players or fans who actually understand the game will most likely watch european or SA matches. Unless you happen to live in one of the countries competing. Then it becomes fun to cheer for your own. See the point? Yeah ofcourse if thats your only point to watch it than dont watch it they will change it instandly if the viewer count drops alot when only Koreans are left but its regulating itself. Becouse you know what its all about the money. Well yeah, it is pretty much self-regulating I agree. The OP was raising the point that this could happen, should Korean domination continue its upward trend. It's clear many people here just don't understand or can't see this side of the coin. I think it's a point well raised.
I see it, I just don't care. And I sincerely doubt it'll ever happen. Tournaments will almost always have invited players, just like MLG does it, and though there will be Koreans and Koreans might be 1 2 and 3 at MLG, there will still be top foreigners competing, that made their way through the open bracket or through group play in advance or through invites.
If the Koreans are the only ones showing good games, I'll watch nothing but the Koreans.
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On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic.
The OP and others who agree are not racist..we just prefer a more balanced competition. I love watching Spain play and sadly I am sure they will kick Englands ass. I will still watch but 50% of UK viewers will stop watching when we are eliminated. Also very few would watch the Euros if it was 16 Spanish teams playing. That's called La Liga not Euros .
Give us balance MLG, NASL IPL, Dreamhack...thank you
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Yea there are koreans even on the teams near that are international and that would be saying for their best players to not play, for example Liquid Hero or someone of that stature.
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On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well.
I wouldn't choose which side of a war to fight on based on where I happened to be born. If I lived in North Korea and we went to war with the US I'm pretty sure I would fight for the other side in an instant (assuming I have the knowledge that I do currently).
People who fight for their country BECAUSE its their country are a problem. People who fight for a cause, regardless of country, are to be respected.
The same holds for Starcraft.
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On June 06 2012 23:01 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. Don't tell me what I am and what i am not. If England loses in the ro8 you have nothing to complain because your team participated. Would you watch only Romanian football just because it's better? Yeah right... I watch the Spanish league every weak and there's not a single English player in that league right because Spain has the best teams.
Ok. cool. But that gives you the right to call on people that want to watch only their team play? They must not be a fan of football buhuuu.
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Agree with most of the points but when they gave out charity seeds people complained so they changed the format..
Random Korean 1 who likes noodles and plays all day against Random Korean 2 who likes noodles and plays all day?
o_______o
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Crossposted in a blog about the same topic. My thoughts that noone care about
I think there's no problem with having a lot of Korean players to international events because these players are the best and the fact that they're Korean doesn't matter. There are more good Korean players because they developped professional Starcraft more that ten years ago and they have a real eSport industry with sponsors that are not from the PC world. In the USA or Europe, all sponsors are PC gear related or energy drinks / soda / snacks which feed most of us during gaming sessions. That's why there is more money in professional Starcraft in Korea than "in the west". Just as the college sports league and sports scolarships in the USA allows students who are good at a given sport to train in an almost professional environment during their studies and produce lots of great athletes in all sports. Their system is better, and the passion the whole nation puts in it allows these athletes to perform and be recognized for it. Nobody complains that there are more good American than Europeans basketball players. Nobody complains that Brazil and Argentina have a tradition of great football players. Hence, there is no problem with the fact that Korea produce great RTS players. If "foreign" teams want to be able to perform the way Korean teams do, they have to set up the same kind of infrastructure Korean teams do.
I think it's important to organize international tournaments, because it produce great games between the best players in the world. But if you want more "foreigners" in it, you should work to promote eSport in your country. Only a change of mentality regarding gamers and eSport from western countries can lead to this performance path. Because it will allow players to start training the efficient way, teams will have better sponsors and therefore the money to hire dedicated coaches, B-teamers/practice partners and so on. Because I doubt Razer and Steelseries, with the number of team they sponsor, can give them as much money as LG or SKT do.
TLDR :
Phase 1 : Change mentality about eSport in your country
Phase 2 : Wait 10 years
Phase 3 : Profit
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On June 06 2012 23:02 Ireniicus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. The OP and others who agree are not racist..we just prefer a more balanced competition. I love watching Spain play and sadly I am sure they will kick Englands ass. I will still watch but 50% of UK viewers will stop watching when we are eliminated. Also very few would watch the Euros if it was 16 Spanish teams playing. That's called La Liga not Euros
But we all watched Serie A in the 90s when Serie A was better than the European Cup.
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On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic.
When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later.......
You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow.
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On June 06 2012 23:02 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:01 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. Don't tell me what I am and what i am not. If England loses in the ro8 you have nothing to complain because your team participated. Would you watch only Romanian football just because it's better? Yeah right... I watch the Spanish league every weak and there's not a single English player in that league right because Spain has the best teams. Ok. cool. But that gives you the right to call on people that want to watch only their team play? They must not be a fan of football buhuuu.
If you get more enjoyment from watching random Romanian play football than you do Messi and Maradona then yes you are not a football fan.
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sorry for lashing out im just super frustrated at not only myself but at how lazy, dumb, clueless the western esports scene is compared to the korean scene. when i think about the differences between both scenes it feels like were at least 10-20 years behind them and that to me is so disheartening
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While many people watch sports (including e-sports) because they enjoy the games and the sport in itself, few (I hope) would disagree that if it becomes important to you who wins the match this increases the overall entertainment value of the match. Thing is that people often root for people related to geography or nationality.
To use a real sport example, the European football championship is coming up. The level of football is likely to be very high and I will probably have a look, but i won't really care who wins the games as Norway did not qualify (as usual). However, if Norway by some sort of miracle should qualify the next time the tournament would become much more interesting because I would have someone to root for (certainly not because their good).
Same thing with Korean only vs. mixed tournaments. I enjoy to watch GSL or GSTL because they provide excellent games but i only really care who wins if there are foreigners included. MLG on the other hand may not have the same level in their games, but the entertainment value is upped as a result of having someone to root for. If MLG becomes a korean only tournament this will serve to alienate those who primarily watch because they cheer for some foreigner ,while removing much of the entertainment value for those who enjoy both the game and have someone they root for. Thus, this type of tournament will only serve those who only watch because they enjoy good matches. This would probably result in decrease in viewers already following Starcraft while at the same time it is likely that SC will attract fewer new viewers.Besides, we already have top notch, jetlag free tournaments in GSL and GSTL to provide the highest level of SC2 games.
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EPT
