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On June 06 2012 22:49 pmp10 wrote:
The "Highest level of play" argument is just hilarious.
Casual viewers don't/barley play the game - how can you expect them to tell the difference?
If the caster words are the only thing to go by then the highest level can be found all the way from low masters to code S.
Unless you think that SC2 has too many casual viewers and should relay on the hardcore fan-base only don't talk about level of play - for many people it means nothing..
Korea is a brand now. A tournament has to have koreans in it to be "legit" and that is lame. That is more racist than adding a maximum cap for players/country.
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On June 06 2012 22:43 RinconH wrote:
btw has it just been "accepted" that the only reason Koreans are better is because they train longer/harder?
Isn't it very possible that they have some kind of racial affinity (quick handspeed, multi-tasking thinking etc,.) such as African Americans have for a quick twitch muscle sport like basketball or East Africans for marathon running?
That's pretty rediculous. If anything, except the training environment, has an effect its that Korean children are pressured/encouraged to work hard from a young age. In fact the thought has just come to me that there's a possibly correlation between a country's success at Starcraft and how good its school system is (Korea and Nordic countries are high on both), I don't think theres any direct link, but its possible that children in the countries with better schools are more dedicated, or less lazy on average.
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On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
The responses in this thread would show this is incorrect.
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On June 06 2012 22:49 pmp10 wrote:
The "Highest level of play" argument is just hilarious.
Casual viewers don't/barley play the game - how can you expect them to tell the difference?
If the caster words are the only thing to go by then the highest level can be found all the way from low masters to code S.
Unless you think that SC2 has too many casual viewers and should relay on the hardcore fan-base only don't talk about level of play - for many people it means nothing..
If we are just trying to market it to casuals we could go the WWF route and make sure that the best storylines happen. Who gives a shit about the integrity of the competition if all we care about is growing 'E-SPORTS'
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On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans  shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football.
You mean they've been flown to France, Spain because they showed talent ? That's where they became the best.
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Why are people insisting on forcing racism issue here, thats not the point. We are talking about a group of people who has much better practice standards than others. Look at Skiing championships and count how many people came from Austria, Germany, Scandinavia. ill just stop on that, trying to persuade some people who only look for drama here is not worth my fingers.
Usage of word foreigner in sc community is the biggest hint, if the footing was equal we would never call ourselves foreigners, simple as that.
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On June 06 2012 22:50 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:48 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:44 mx.raaawwwr wrote:
So instead of foreigners playing better, we should not have Koreans in our tournaments? Then what is the point of a tournament if it is not to see who is better. You just totally undermine the whole concept of a tournament. Who the hell will care if you win a MLG when the real competition is in Korea?
-Random player nr 1 wins MLG-
Random fan goes "WOOOO"!
/facepalm racist community. Finding the best in a subset can be exciting too. Do you not understand that? For example there's an Asian Cup for Soccer. Apparently this is pointless, because it doesn't have the best teams in the world competing. You should go tell all the players of the championship teams over the years their win meant nothing. Well in a way it does and top level players or fans who actually understand the game will most likely watch european or SA matches.
Unless you happen to live in one of the countries competing. Then it becomes fun to cheer for your own. See the point?
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On June 06 2012 22:43 RinconH wrote:
btw has it just been "accepted" that the only reason Koreans are better is because they train longer/harder?
Isn't it very possible that they have some kind of racial affinity (quick handspeed, multi-tasking thinking etc,.) such as African Americans have for a quick twitch muscle sport like basketball or East Africans for marathon running?
far from it, generally speaking, women (no matter what race) should outperform men at video games (no matter which game it is) and yet we do not see that happening. That goes along with the can of worms opened by the OP. No, I will not have this kind of discrimination around. They deserve each and every spot they got so far in "foreign" tournaments. Just because they are better right now,that's our biggest challenge: to outmatch them. That simple.
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On June 06 2012 22:51 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:49 pmp10 wrote:
The "Highest level of play" argument is just hilarious.
Casual viewers don't/barley play the game - how can you expect them to tell the difference?
If the caster words are the only thing to go by then the highest level can be found all the way from low masters to code S.
Unless you think that SC2 has too many casual viewers and should relay on the hardcore fan-base only don't talk about level of play - for many people it means nothing.. Korea is a brand now. A tournament has to have koreans in it to be "legit" and that is lame. That is more racist than adding a maximum cap for players/country.
No, a tournament has to have the best players to be " legit " it just so happens that those players come from South Korea.
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On June 06 2012 22:51 Eufouria wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:43 RinconH wrote:
btw has it just been "accepted" that the only reason Koreans are better is because they train longer/harder?
Isn't it very possible that they have some kind of racial affinity (quick handspeed, multi-tasking thinking etc,.) such as African Americans have for a quick twitch muscle sport like basketball or East Africans for marathon running? That's pretty rediculous. If anything, except the training environment, has an effect its that Korean children are pressured/encouraged to work hard from a young age. In fact the thought has just come to me that there's a possibly correlation between a country's success at Starcraft and how good its school system is (Korea and Nordic countries are high on both), I don't think theres any direct link, but its possible that children in the countries with better schools are more dedicated, or less lazy on average.
I wouldn't say korean schooling system is good, but it's brutally competitive.
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On June 06 2012 22:51 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:49 pmp10 wrote:
The "Highest level of play" argument is just hilarious.
Casual viewers don't/barley play the game - how can you expect them to tell the difference?
If the caster words are the only thing to go by then the highest level can be found all the way from low masters to code S.
Unless you think that SC2 has too many casual viewers and should relay on the hardcore fan-base only don't talk about level of play - for many people it means nothing.. If we are just trying to market it to casuals we could go the WWF route and make sure that the best storylines happen. Who gives a shit about the integrity of the competition if all we care about is growing 'E-SPORTS'
SC2 E-sport won't grow if it's only aimed at hardcore gamers.
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On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football.
tiger woods didnt need to rely on practice partners to become great at what he does, im so fucking tired of these dumb generic responses when you dont even understand what the underlying problem is. keep your motherfucking tony the team tiger practice makes perfect speech for the next generation ok?
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On June 06 2012 22:52 Maxquatre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football. You mean they've been flown to France, Spain because they showed talent ? That's where they became the best.
Which is exactly what happens in Sc2. They are also flown to Europe at 16-18 which is well into their development.
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Norway25712 Posts
On June 06 2012 22:49 pmp10 wrote:
The "Highest level of play" argument is just hilarious.
Casual viewers don't/barley play the game - how can you expect them to tell the difference?
If the caster words are the only thing to go by then the highest level can be found all the way from low masters to code S.
Unless you think that SC2 has too many casual viewers and should relay on the hardcore fan-base only don't talk about level of play - for many people it means nothing..
Good on ya, automatically assuming that no-one knows what a good play looks like and insulting the entire thread at the same time. Excellent.
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On June 06 2012 22:53 stew_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:51 Eufouria wrote:On June 06 2012 22:43 RinconH wrote:
btw has it just been "accepted" that the only reason Koreans are better is because they train longer/harder?
Isn't it very possible that they have some kind of racial affinity (quick handspeed, multi-tasking thinking etc,.) such as African Americans have for a quick twitch muscle sport like basketball or East Africans for marathon running? That's pretty rediculous. If anything, except the training environment, has an effect its that Korean children are pressured/encouraged to work hard from a young age. In fact the thought has just come to me that there's a possibly correlation between a country's success at Starcraft and how good its school system is (Korea and Nordic countries are high on both), I don't think theres any direct link, but its possible that children in the countries with better schools are more dedicated, or less lazy on average. I wouldn't say korean schooling system is good, but it's brutally competitive.
Yeah I phrased that badly I meant the quality of students produced not the quality of the system.
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The only thing that makes koreans so "boring" to watch outside the GSL is because they simply have no name in the foreign world and I think those international tournaments are a good way to become a really known progamer for them. Everytime I see a korean it's is the same person for me with the same lame tactics and just sometimes they convince me through raw skill that they are worth to be known. It's not because I want them to be seen like that, it's simply the way it turns out.
But I don't see a point in excluding korean players because of them being korean. They are good players and they deserve to be the best if they manage to win such a tournament. MC, DRG, MVP, HerO, Bomber and NesTea are personalities and I love seing them play. Why not give another korean the chance to line up with them?
Also: This topic is stupid. Just because someone doesn't like it, it's not a bad thing and shouldn't be discussed in this way. I for one like Boxer as a person but I hate seing him play because he is highly overrated in my view, yet I don't open topics just for the sake of it. Pls close this.
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On June 06 2012 22:53 Maxquatre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:51 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:49 pmp10 wrote:
The "Highest level of play" argument is just hilarious.
Casual viewers don't/barley play the game - how can you expect them to tell the difference?
If the caster words are the only thing to go by then the highest level can be found all the way from low masters to code S.
Unless you think that SC2 has too many casual viewers and should relay on the hardcore fan-base only don't talk about level of play - for many people it means nothing.. If we are just trying to market it to casuals we could go the WWF route and make sure that the best storylines happen. Who gives a shit about the integrity of the competition if all we care about is growing 'E-SPORTS' SC2 E-sport won't grow if it's only aimed at hardcore gamers.
Then fuck esports.
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On June 06 2012 22:51 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
The responses in this thread would show this is incorrect.
TL is pretty hardcore players. Most people are Masters (well if you believe that). That's 2% of players? Not a big market to aim for.
I find it hard to believe that all the people here have never experienced the thrill of rooting for the 'home team' in whatever sport. Losing that excitement is a big loss IMO.
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On June 06 2012 22:52 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:50 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:48 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:44 mx.raaawwwr wrote:
So instead of foreigners playing better, we should not have Koreans in our tournaments? Then what is the point of a tournament if it is not to see who is better. You just totally undermine the whole concept of a tournament. Who the hell will care if you win a MLG when the real competition is in Korea?
-Random player nr 1 wins MLG-
Random fan goes "WOOOO"!
/facepalm racist community. Finding the best in a subset can be exciting too. Do you not understand that? For example there's an Asian Cup for Soccer. Apparently this is pointless, because it doesn't have the best teams in the world competing. You should go tell all the players of the championship teams over the years their win meant nothing. Well in a way it does and top level players or fans who actually understand the game will most likely watch european or SA matches. Unless you happen to live in one of the countries competing. Then it becomes fun to cheer for your own. See the point?
Nobody says you can't have your own little local tournament. But who on earth would expect MLG, who wants to be the biggest premier tournament outside of korea, to cater to such whims?
There is obviously a market for regional tournaments, but it's not MLG's responsibility. And like it or not, such regional tourneys will not be as prestigious (for good reason).
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On June 06 2012 22:52 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:50 Chilling5pr33 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:48 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:44 mx.raaawwwr wrote:
So instead of foreigners playing better, we should not have Koreans in our tournaments? Then what is the point of a tournament if it is not to see who is better. You just totally undermine the whole concept of a tournament. Who the hell will care if you win a MLG when the real competition is in Korea?
-Random player nr 1 wins MLG-
Random fan goes "WOOOO"!
/facepalm racist community. Finding the best in a subset can be exciting too. Do you not understand that? For example there's an Asian Cup for Soccer. Apparently this is pointless, because it doesn't have the best teams in the world competing. You should go tell all the players of the championship teams over the years their win meant nothing. Well in a way it does and top level players or fans who actually understand the game will most likely watch european or SA matches. Unless you happen to live in one of the countries competing. Then it becomes fun to cheer for your own. See the point?
Yeah ofcourse if thats your only point to watch it than dont watch it they will change it instandly if the viewer count drops alot when only Koreans are left but its regulating itself. Becouse you know what its all about the money.
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EPT
