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On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract.
If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns?
There are some morality issues involved in here as well.
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On June 06 2012 22:54 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans  shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football. tiger woods didnt need to rely on practice partners to become great at what he does, im so fucking tired of these dumb generic response when you dont even understand what the underlying problem is. keep your motherfucking tony the team tiger practice makes perfect speechs for the next generation ok?
People keep saying it because they keep being right.
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On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well.
Your team is Romania.
It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea.
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Ugh, these threads again. They always come off pretty freaking racist. I don't really see what the problem is! There are more and more Koreans with "personality or whatever the hell you are looking for" You talk about people being less interested, but stream numbers are getting better and better for these events and it seems to have no correlation with the number of Koreans in the tournament. The Korean infrastructure isn't even as good as it was in BW as it is today, though that probably will be changing with the next osl. Maybe you just wanna see white guys play? A couple of foreigners doing well in a tournament does make it interesting, but that would have lost effect if only 3 Korean guys were allowed to show up.
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On June 06 2012 22:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:52 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football. You mean they've been flown to France, Spain because they showed talent ? That's where they became the best. Which is exactly what happens in Sc2. They are also flown to Europe at 16-18 which is well into their development.
Except they are paid and practice with good players while foreigners going to korea have to spend lots of money and can pretty much only ladder.
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Even if foreigners had the korean infrastructure, do you guys think they would be abled to endure the practice regime? (i hear it is really intense, time wise and also somewhat tedious)
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On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well.
Your examples are terrible, It's a video game competition.
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On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well.
I owe no loyalty to a place JUST because I was born within some imaginary lines without a choice.
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On June 06 2012 22:56 Maxquatre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:52 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football. You mean they've been flown to France, Spain because they showed talent ? That's where they became the best. Which is exactly what happens in Sc2. They are also flown to Europe at 16-18 which is well into their development. Except they are paid and practice with good players while foreigners going to korea have to spend lots of money and can pretty much only ladder.
Foreigners are paid by their teams to be in Korea.
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Norway25712 Posts
On June 06 2012 22:53 Maxquatre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:51 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:49 pmp10 wrote:
The "Highest level of play" argument is just hilarious.
Casual viewers don't/barley play the game - how can you expect them to tell the difference?
If the caster words are the only thing to go by then the highest level can be found all the way from low masters to code S.
Unless you think that SC2 has too many casual viewers and should relay on the hardcore fan-base only don't talk about level of play - for many people it means nothing.. If we are just trying to market it to casuals we could go the WWF route and make sure that the best storylines happen. Who gives a shit about the integrity of the competition if all we care about is growing 'E-SPORTS' SC2 E-sport won't grow if it's only aimed at hardcore gamers.
I don't give a shit about e-sports, I just care about SC2 and good gameplay.
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On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea.
Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT!
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On June 06 2012 22:33 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:32 meadbert wrote:
There is a huge disconnect between Europeans and Americans regarding this issue. In Europe it is common to have rules regarding the number of foreigners allowed per league and per team, but the idea itself is totally foreign in America.
We do not limit the number of Latin Americans that play Major League Baseball.
We do not limit the number of Europeans that play Basketball.
We do not limit the number of Europeans or Canadians that play on American ice hockey teams.
American believe in letting the best play regardless of where they are from.
ESL and European leagues can be the leagues that keep out some of the best players for representing the wrong country, but in America lets keep letting the best compete against the best. Nope we actually dont have such rules in europe where does that come from????
ofc for 2013, FIFA make the 6+5- rule where each club must field at least six players eligible to play for the national team of the country of the club, to restore the national identity of football clubs who have increasingly resorted to fielding foreign players in their squad.
maybe sc2 needs something simillar
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On June 06 2012 22:57 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your examples are terrible, It's a video game competition.
WTF he is calling me a racist because I don't like a full house korean tournament and my examples are terrible? OMG this forum.
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On June 06 2012 22:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:56 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:52 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:[quote] foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football. You mean they've been flown to France, Spain because they showed talent ? That's where they became the best. Which is exactly what happens in Sc2. They are also flown to Europe at 16-18 which is well into their development. Except they are paid and practice with good players while foreigners going to korea have to spend lots of money and can pretty much only ladder. Foreigners are paid by their teams to be in Korea.
That's why they are all staying there since the beginning of SC2, right ? I wonder why we hold tournament in the west since all foreigners are in Korea, oh wait.
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On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT!
When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself.
You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic.
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sc2 is not just a video game.
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On June 06 2012 22:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:56 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:52 Maxquatre wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:45 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:23 antilyon wrote:On June 06 2012 21:29 mTwTT1 wrote:On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:[quote] foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree LOL yes the EG house, top notch practice on the na ladder and tl + fnatic dont have nearly as many practice partners as the other korean teams do Fuck TT1, what the hell you want? You want to play on NA with who? DRG, MKP, MC, MVP, Losira and so on? Would you want them to speak english with you too? If you are practicing with NA pros, and you find NA ladder to be weak, why not practice among yourselves? If you have a team house, you will have the players, the discussion and the enviroinment. I don't see how this is any different from korean team houses. this topic is so depressing that i no longer have the energy to explain myself anymore, i give up. u guys are right if i want to be as good as a korean player all i have to do is have the same amount of dedication and work ethic as they do. every foreign player that wants to be good at this game is going to have to move to korea and practice on the korean ladder if they want to be the best, lets keep this trend going for another 20 years and ignore the reason why we have to travel to korea in order to get adequate practice Tiger Woods faced the same problems, but he didn't whine about it and he's the greatest golfer of all time. Eto'o, Drogba, Weah didn't spend their youths whining about shitty African training facilities. They became some of the best fucking forwards to ever play football. You mean they've been flown to France, Spain because they showed talent ? That's where they became the best. Which is exactly what happens in Sc2. They are also flown to Europe at 16-18 which is well into their development. Except they are paid and practice with good players while foreigners going to korea have to spend lots of money and can pretty much only ladder. Foreigners are paid by their teams to be in Korea.
Foreigners are paid more than most Koreans to be in korea, lol.
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We need Koreans in the Big tournaments for sure just not making up 90% of the Pools. This is absolutely great for elitists (myself included) that love to watch the very best SC2 action. However it sux hard if we actually want Sc2 to grow beyond the confines of what is still quite a small viewership.
To attract more casual viewers it is critical tournaments create more balance and have more players from more countries attending.
TL viewers are elitist by definition as majority of posters are SC1/2 fans, consequently In my opinion TL viewers are not the best people to see past this issue to the wider context the OP has raised. Just ask your friends who might be interested in watching the odd game causualyl whether they want to see 40 Brilliant Koreans or 10 and more representation from other countries.
To sum up yes lets have the top 8-10 Koreans attend but not the 30 each and every time.
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getting back to the OP......anyone remember what that was? 
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On June 06 2012 22:58 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:57 Dodgin wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ceaRshaf wrote:
I want to see a member of my family play.
I want to see a member of my neighborhood play.
I want to see a member of my town play.
I want to see a member of my country play.
I want to see a member of my continent play.
I want to see a member of my planet play.
I want to see a member of my Arm play.
I want to see a member of my Galaxy play.
I want to see a member of my Universe play.
In that order.
That is not racism or anything, it's how human beings have evolved, wanting to defend their close ones before anything else (other tribe or smth).
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your examples are terrible, It's a video game competition. WTF he is calling me a racist because I don't like a full house korean tournament and my examples are terrible? OMG this forum.
There's nothing wrong with your opinion that you don't like a full house korean tournament but trying to say everyone cheers for their home team is just wrong.
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EPT
