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terrible, terrible post.
If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans.
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On June 06 2012 22:08 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:02 Klaas wrote:On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1" Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify. Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most. But see, the middle ground will be "found" once foreigners actually earn those spots, not by artificially controlling who gets to compete.
And how is that middle ground going to be found if the entrie foreign scene collapses due to lack of interest from casual fans?
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On June 06 2012 23:20 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:08 Jojo131 wrote:On June 06 2012 22:02 Klaas wrote:On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1" Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify. Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most. But see, the middle ground will be "found" once foreigners actually earn those spots, not by artificially controlling who gets to compete. And how is that middle ground going to be found if the entrie foreign scene collapses due to lack of interest from casual fans?
That's not remotely what is happening.
And Stephano is the best any foreigner has been in relation to Koreans since 2010/very, very early 2011.
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On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.
If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans.
Terrible, terrible post.
Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.
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On June 06 2012 21:20 Naniwa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:19 Hassybaby wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans  shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response The EG, fnatic and TL houses would like to disagree you still dont know what you are talking about so why even bother? guess its same old same old tho.. people who have no clue always speak too much ))
I'm going to hate myself in the morning, but...
I agree with Naniwa. With a lot of respect to EG, TL, and Fnatic houses, they are not run in the same way that Korean houses run. TT1 also has chimed in later on about the differences in practice regimes between "Koreans" and "Foreigners". (I use quotes because people like Naniwa are in Korea, and there are others (like Violet) that blur the lines a bit.)
It's a different world - one clearly illustrated in that picture of the Emperor at MLG. Everyone else has gone back to their rooms/parties/TL Mafia/whatever at the event, and he is still sitting at computer grinding out practice games. The system in Korea is set up differently, with a great deal of emphasis on practice and with supportive coaches. Players are doing more than just grinding out games. Look at the KESPA teams - classroom style meetings, strict schedules and goals, lots of coach interaction. You can probably name the coach of at least one or two Korean teams - can you do the same with "foreign" teams?
(Again, loads of respect to EG, TL, Fnatic, Ministry of Win, Razer Academy, etc - they're moving in the right direction. But I think they're still building the kind of support structure that a lot of Korean teams wouldn't even start without.)
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On June 06 2012 22:48 oxxo wrote:
How in the world is this not racist? In more instances than not people are talking about 'foreigners' as white. Not their own country, but white. It's just plain ridiculous.
The bigger tournaments are more likely than not never going to have skin color quotas. You guys really need to get over it. They're going to invite the best and the best are going to make it through open play (foreigners have plenty of chances to get in). That's only good for SC2 and viewership. Who wants to watch someone barely better than themselves?
What? Who was talking about white?! Don't put words in people mouths.
We want fair representation from all over the world. I would give 1-4 spots per country or region.
4 to Korea, 3 to North America, 4 to EU countries, 1 to rest of Europe countries, 2 to China, 1 to Australia, 1 to Latin America, 1-2 to middle east and so on. Qualifiers to decide who represents countries and then they fight each other to get region qualify spots.
The numbers or representatives would change from tournament to tournament based on how players from their region do (like Champions league does it).
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On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.
If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans. Terrible, terrible post. Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.
That's ridiculous though. You're saying you want closed foreign tournaments because you're upset the player you like to root for doesn't win tournaments. thats incredibly immature
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On June 06 2012 23:15 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:12 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:10 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:46 zefreak wrote:
[quote]
Learn the difference between descriptive and normative. Everyone understands WHY foreigners prefer watching foreigners if all circumstances are equal. That doesn't make it rational. And racism IS somewhat a product of evolution, for the same tribal reasons you describe. Sometimes our nature is ugly and shouldn't be used to justify prejudices that our reason can counteract. If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns? There are some morality issues involved in here as well. Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. Asian Cup - Soccer. Running for 50 odd years. Only allows Asian teams. Just what criteria of success you using there? Is this a joke? No. This competition doesn't allow equal competition based on skill. It restricts by region. I contend it's successful by the length of time it's been running, therefore providing a counterexample to your statement. Rebuttal?
The faucet in the guest bedroom of my house.
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Koreans have a stronger work ethic for improving, and that is why they are the best. Find any foreigner who players 12+ hours a day (that's right, 6-8 doesn't cut it in the GSL). They're the best because they literally sacrifice the rest of their lives (including the free time to relax and do other stuff) to play Starcraft.
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On June 06 2012 23:23 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:48 oxxo wrote:
How in the world is this not racist? In more instances than not people are talking about 'foreigners' as white. Not their own country, but white. It's just plain ridiculous.
The bigger tournaments are more likely than not never going to have skin color quotas. You guys really need to get over it. They're going to invite the best and the best are going to make it through open play (foreigners have plenty of chances to get in). That's only good for SC2 and viewership. Who wants to watch someone barely better than themselves? What? Who was talking about white?! Don't put words in people mouths. We want fair representation from all over the world. I would give 1-4 spots per country or region. 4 to Korea, 3 to North America, 4 to EU countries, 1 to rest of Europe countries, 2 to China, 1 to Australia, 1 to Latin America, 1-2 to middle east and so on. Qualifiers to decide who represents countries and then they fight each other to get region qualify spots. The numbers or representatives would change from tournament to tournament based on how players from their region do (like Champions league does it).
In that case most of the games would be total shit.
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On June 06 2012 23:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:23 -Archangel- wrote:On June 06 2012 22:48 oxxo wrote:
How in the world is this not racist? In more instances than not people are talking about 'foreigners' as white. Not their own country, but white. It's just plain ridiculous.
The bigger tournaments are more likely than not never going to have skin color quotas. You guys really need to get over it. They're going to invite the best and the best are going to make it through open play (foreigners have plenty of chances to get in). That's only good for SC2 and viewership. Who wants to watch someone barely better than themselves? What? Who was talking about white?! Don't put words in people mouths. We want fair representation from all over the world. I would give 1-4 spots per country or region. 4 to Korea, 3 to North America, 4 to EU countries, 1 to rest of Europe countries, 2 to China, 1 to Australia, 1 to Latin America, 1-2 to middle east and so on. Qualifiers to decide who represents countries and then they fight each other to get region qualify spots. The numbers or representatives would change from tournament to tournament based on how players from their region do (like Champions league does it). In that case most of the games would be total shit.
exactly....thered still be the korean reps winning 
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On June 06 2012 23:23 Pazuzu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.
If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans. Terrible, terrible post. Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for. That's ridiculous though. You're saying you want closed foreign tournaments because you're upset the player you like to root for doesn't win tournaments. thats incredibly immature
Now you're just putting words in my mouth.
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If you look at the open bracket, its mostly nonkoreans.
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On June 06 2012 23:19 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:15 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 23:12 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:10 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:
[quote]
If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns?
There are some morality issues involved in here as well.
Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. Asian Cup - Soccer. Running for 50 odd years. Only allows Asian teams. Just what criteria of success you using there? Is this a joke? No. This competition doesn't allow equal competition based on skill. It restricts by region. I contend it's successful by the length of time it's been running, therefore providing a counterexample to your statement. Rebuttal? My rebuttal is that you're really really dumb. The world cup doesn't let non Brazilians play for Brazil either, what is this madness? MLG is not a nation based competition, it is not WCG or the Blizzard knock off that's currently going on. It's an open tournament like the US open or Wimbledon. Comparing a nation based tournament like the World Cup to a non national based tournament is retarded.
Fine. I'll modify my original post you replied to. It still holds true:
When someone from my country is in Wimbledon, interest in tennis soars. Of course the hardcore tennis fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my countryman is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later.......
You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow.
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On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.
If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans. Terrible, terrible post. Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.
If the game is that boring for you I suggest moving on. Find a game you are passionate about and follow that instead. You can get exactly the same storyline kicks from any other sport/game, and the ultimate kick is when you love it enough that the underdog/upset drama is inconsequential to your enjoyment.
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On June 06 2012 23:24 zedi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:23 Pazuzu wrote:On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.
If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans. Terrible, terrible post. Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for. That's ridiculous though. You're saying you want closed foreign tournaments because you're upset the player you like to root for doesn't win tournaments. thats incredibly immature Now you're just putting words in my mouth.
then clarify :D
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When they make MLG US only they loose 80% of the online community if they make it US / EU only about 50% i guess.
But not sure about it MLG has looked at that i guess.
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On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.
If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans. Terrible, terrible post. Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.
Speak for yourself. I'm from Canada, and don't have a single Asian ancestor in my entire bloodline, and yet 99/100 times I'm rooting for a Korean to win any particular match because I think they're the better/more interesting/more deserving player.
And I'd like to address Naniwa's comment at the beginning: so what if foreigners don't have the same conditions as Koreans? African children don't have the infrastructure to train for the NFL, but nobody's demanding we allow a token number of African immigrants (who may not be as skilled) into the NFL. The best players will and should reap the best rewards, because this is a game of skill, not a game of 'oh, he looks like me, better root for him!'
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 06 2012 23:22 zedi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:20 bri9and wrote:
terrible, terrible post.
If you intend to have a SC2 tournament, why wouldn't you want the best players? Sorry man, but that would be the Koreans. Terrible, terrible post. Because that's just boring - nothing interesting to root for.
Then I guess you don't care much about the game. Watch WWE instead, it seems to be what you want - arranged, personality focused drama.
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On June 06 2012 23:23 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 23:15 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 23:12 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:10 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 23:05 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 23:04 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On June 06 2012 22:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:57 ceaRshaf wrote:On June 06 2012 22:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 06 2012 22:55 ceaRshaf wrote:
[quote]
If you are called to war for your country you would flee to the better team? If aliens invade Earth would you flee to fight with them just because they have the better guns?
There are some morality issues involved in here as well.
Your team is Romania. It is not every fucking country in the world except South Korea. Ok, no Romainans at MLG. What about Europeans? Oh, no room for them because Korea is so dominant? Ok. No soup for me. NEEXT! When England lose in the European Championships to Spain in the Ro8 (or maybe we'll lose in the groups) I won't stop watching because I am a football fan who supports my team but also loves to game itself. You are not a Starcraft fan. You are a fan of white people playing Starcraft. Which is racist, sad and pathetic. When my country is in the World Cup, interest in Soccer soars. Of course the hardcore soccer fans will watch the games till the end no matter what, but as soon as my country is eliminated, interest clearly wanes in the population. The casuals lose interest. Some casuals may like what they see, and continue to watch though, for the tournament and for years later....... You might say we don't need those casuals. Well then I say all you'll end up with is Korean based tournaments. MLG won't be supported by hardcore supporters alone. This might be fine for you. Others want to see MLG succeed and grow. No sporting even has ever, ever in the history of sport succeeded by not encouraging fair and equal competition based on skill. Asian Cup - Soccer. Running for 50 odd years. Only allows Asian teams. Just what criteria of success you using there? Is this a joke? No. This competition doesn't allow equal competition based on skill. It restricts by region. I contend it's successful by the length of time it's been running, therefore providing a counterexample to your statement. Rebuttal? The faucet in the guest bedroom of my house.
Lol, nice. I asked for his criteria of success specifically because length of time isn't a great indicator. But you'd be hard pressed to argue the Asian Cup isn't successful anyway.
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EPT
