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On May 10 2012 06:44 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 06:38 ArchAngelSC wrote:On May 10 2012 06:30 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
You can't really argue that they're making him too feminine or too masculine, that actually carries the assumption that certain clothes are masculine and others are feminine in the first place. You can't make someone gender neutral by restricting them from things that are considered gender specific because nothing is inherently gender specific (except chasity belts... maybe). So this entire experience is flawed from the start. So you're saying that a pink, girls swimsuit, is NOT feminine and/or gender specific? Pink used to be a male colour, blue for girls (not that colours need to have gender association) and there's nothing really wrong with a girls swimsuit if you don't associate it with girls.
Yeah I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a boy wearing pink, even I wear pink shirts. But he's saying you can't even call it a girls swimsuit because that would be labelling it as gender specific. Which is dumb because female swimsuits are quite obviously, for females lol ;D
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On May 10 2012 06:51 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 06:50 Kurr wrote:On May 10 2012 06:46 ampson wrote:
Sucks for the kid. He's gonna have a tough time in society. Yep. Psycho parents forcing their kid into awkward situation. Unlucky child is all I can say. The parents are the people responsible for forming their child, especially in their early years. You don't need to make your child into a super-masculine boy, just raise him normally and it will be fine if you're responsible. But nope, want to prove a pointless point so let's fuck up the kid's life! This child will have a messed up identity and they are even forcing him to wear a girl's blouse at school. For fucks sake, how could they possibly think this is a good idea? Stories like this piss me off. Do you think the child would willingly outcast himself if he was old enough to understand everything going on? Of course not. When he's a teenager, he will be desperate to fit in like all teenagers, but he will be a ways behind because of his crazy parents. Kids are vicious, they will judge him permanently on this stuff. Have you read the article? They ain't forcing shit on the kid. They let the kid decide how he wants to dress and what toys to play with.
"But the sandbox is just a precursor to the classroom. When Sasha turned five and headed to school, Laxton was forced to make her son's sex public. That meant Sasha would have to get used to being a boy in the eyes of his peers. Still, his mom is intervening. While the school requires different uniforms for boys and girls, Sasha wears a girl's blouse with his pants. "
Absolutely forced him into this situation. There's no excuse for this type of poor parenting IMO. Going out of their way to make their kid an outcast. Yes, even small things like this matter to children. He's different, that's bad for him.
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Gender neutral experiment, and yet...
Sasha dresses in clothes he likes -- be it a hand-me-downs from his sister or his brother. The big no-no's are hyper-masculine outfits like skull-print shirts and cargo pants...
Sasha's also not short on dolls, though Barbie is also off limits. "She's banned because she's horrible," Laxton says in the Cambridge interview.
What are these parents trying to demonstrate, other than their own bias, ignorance and stupidity?
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On May 10 2012 06:57 TALegion wrote:
Their kid is going to love them when he grows up. Intentionally isolating from all of his peers because they want to make a point? Basically sacrificing their son's social life.
5 bucks says this family relationship crashes and burns sometime into his teens, if this continues.
I doubt it. They will do a good job at indoctrinating him to have the same weird beliefs that they have. He will probably go on to produce his own gender neutral children.
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Raising kids "as a boy" or "as a girl" is creepy and unnecessary, but a lot of society will force it upon your kid as soon as they know your kid's sex. So, concealing that for the first few years of life makes an awful lot of sense.
It sounds like, from the "no cargo shorts, but female undergarments (swimsuits) are OK," bit, that the parents are trying to make their boy feminime rather than just shield him from damaging social pressures. However, poor execution by the parents does not somehow invalidate the concept.
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What we have here are two homosexuals trying to "breed" a similar gay child, I am COMPLETELY for letting children wear girl clothes, it's hilarious and hell if they like it whatever they're themselves, but saying "he cant wear cargo pants its to manly" and then later saying "kids like sparkly things" when addressing the pink swim suit, it's completely one sided... These people are completely confused in how to raise a child, and need to get a grasp on reality, especially the formal dress clothes for classes, being different and unique =/= what's happening. Personally I feel as if social services should be called.
EDIT:
Are they a man and a man? I read comments, and it seemed like male/female but it said "partner" in the thread so that gave me the impression, my point still stands if they are same sex, A-sex, bi-sex, uni-sex or hedro sex... Shit's wrong.
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On May 10 2012 06:51 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 06:50 Kurr wrote:On May 10 2012 06:46 ampson wrote:
Sucks for the kid. He's gonna have a tough time in society. Yep. Psycho parents forcing their kid into awkward situation. Unlucky child is all I can say. The parents are the people responsible for forming their child, especially in their early years. You don't need to make your child into a super-masculine boy, just raise him normally and it will be fine if you're responsible. But nope, want to prove a pointless point so let's fuck up the kid's life! This child will have a messed up identity and they are even forcing him to wear a girl's blouse at school. For fucks sake, how could they possibly think this is a good idea? Stories like this piss me off. Do you think the child would willingly outcast himself if he was old enough to understand everything going on? Of course not. When he's a teenager, he will be desperate to fit in like all teenagers, but he will be a ways behind because of his crazy parents. Kids are vicious, they will judge him permanently on this stuff. Have you read the article? They ain't forcing shit on the kid. They let the kid decide how he wants to dress and what toys to play with.
The concern is that by artificially imposing a genderless environment, they are somewhat impeding the kids' ability to assume a gender role, which is something all kids tend to do naturally, and may play a role in development. While the things that are considered masculine and feminine are arbitrary, feminity and masculinity itself may not be. Pretty much all people seem to want to identify with one or the other gender, regardless of upbringing.
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it's not like testosterone and estrogen play a part in the separation in masculinity and feminine. Nope not at all. As a matter of fact its socially constructed bullshit and the roles we tie to people are completely nonsensical.
Yehp. i suppose a boy who doesn't know hes a boy would be far more likely with all that testosterone pumping in his body to go out and play with some barbie dolls especially when he hits puberty.. yehp
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On May 10 2012 07:00 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 06:51 Doctorbeat wrote:On May 10 2012 06:50 Kurr wrote:On May 10 2012 06:46 ampson wrote:
Sucks for the kid. He's gonna have a tough time in society. Yep. Psycho parents forcing their kid into awkward situation. Unlucky child is all I can say. The parents are the people responsible for forming their child, especially in their early years. You don't need to make your child into a super-masculine boy, just raise him normally and it will be fine if you're responsible. But nope, want to prove a pointless point so let's fuck up the kid's life! This child will have a messed up identity and they are even forcing him to wear a girl's blouse at school. For fucks sake, how could they possibly think this is a good idea? Stories like this piss me off. Do you think the child would willingly outcast himself if he was old enough to understand everything going on? Of course not. When he's a teenager, he will be desperate to fit in like all teenagers, but he will be a ways behind because of his crazy parents. Kids are vicious, they will judge him permanently on this stuff. Have you read the article? They ain't forcing shit on the kid. They let the kid decide how he wants to dress and what toys to play with. The concern is that by artificially imposing a genderless environment, they are somewhat impeding the kids' ability to assume a gender role, which is something all kids tend to do naturally, and may play a role in development. While the things that are considered masculine and feminine are arbitrary, feminity and masculinity itself may not be. Pretty much all people seem to want to identify with one or the other gender, regardless of upbringing.
I understand that and agree, but nowhere in the article is mentioned that the kid wears the girl's blouse because of his parents. It could very well be his own decision.
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This is creepy and wrong. They are hurting their kid's development and are setting him up for bullying. Professional psychologists are saying this is wrong as well.
I absolutely hate this. It's ok if you hate stereotypes, but don't fuck your kid over for the rest of his life because you're too retarded to listen to large numbers of psychologists.
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The problem here is that the parents know what sex the infant was (male), and therefore were unconsciously biased against the norm... How stupid and embarassing would their experiment seem if their little boy grew up liking to play with trucks and wear boys clothes? Well they know that, so they would try very hard (even if they were unaware of it) to make this child a social anomaly. Children are very good at picking up on subtle queues from their parents. When the little boy goes to pick out a bathing suit, and looks to mommy for guidance on his choice... and his mom gives a little sqeek of pleasure, or smiles when he goes for the sparkly pink thing, then the kid is going to think it is the "correct choice". In this way, this experiment is flawed from the ground up. Unless they could keep the PARENTS oblivious to the childs gender, this experiment is just a sick joke, where the parents (who obviously have no scientific background or idea of what they are doing) are working real hard to fuck up the childs social life in the future.
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OMG why didn't the parents read a holy book? god told abraham/ibrahim not to sacrifice his son. (or was it a daughter?)
too bad their god, "gender neutrality" won't send a ram (again, maybe we should say "sheep" instead) to ... no, wait, that would be speciesism.
[end of post]
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I think it's pretty fucked up to the child for parents to decide that a child is gender neutral, or to not let a child understand the importance wether you have a penis or vagina.. I think its fucking important! Gender makes life interesting! I'm masculine, and I'm quite attracted to femininity! Tension between genders makes life interesting. Sexual tension. Emotional tension.
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On May 10 2012 07:06 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:00 Crushinator wrote:On May 10 2012 06:51 Doctorbeat wrote:On May 10 2012 06:50 Kurr wrote:On May 10 2012 06:46 ampson wrote:
Sucks for the kid. He's gonna have a tough time in society. Yep. Psycho parents forcing their kid into awkward situation. Unlucky child is all I can say. The parents are the people responsible for forming their child, especially in their early years. You don't need to make your child into a super-masculine boy, just raise him normally and it will be fine if you're responsible. But nope, want to prove a pointless point so let's fuck up the kid's life! This child will have a messed up identity and they are even forcing him to wear a girl's blouse at school. For fucks sake, how could they possibly think this is a good idea? Stories like this piss me off. Do you think the child would willingly outcast himself if he was old enough to understand everything going on? Of course not. When he's a teenager, he will be desperate to fit in like all teenagers, but he will be a ways behind because of his crazy parents. Kids are vicious, they will judge him permanently on this stuff. Have you read the article? They ain't forcing shit on the kid. They let the kid decide how he wants to dress and what toys to play with. The concern is that by artificially imposing a genderless environment, they are somewhat impeding the kids' ability to assume a gender role, which is something all kids tend to do naturally, and may play a role in development. While the things that are considered masculine and feminine are arbitrary, feminity and masculinity itself may not be. Pretty much all people seem to want to identify with one or the other gender, regardless of upbringing. I understand that and agree, but nowhere in the article is mentioned that the kid wears the girl's blouse because of his parents. It could very well be his own decision.
Yes, it could be, but it seems unlikely. Studies suggest that children almost always pick a gender when their mind, unconsious or otherwise, gets a good picture of what is feminine and what is masculine. The magic number seems to be around age 5. It doesn't necessarily have to be the gender they were raised in as the result of their sex, but they do tend to pick.
If parents make such an effort that the child isn't able to disriminate feminine from masculine, or if they put him under pressure not to pick, it may be somewhat harmful to child's sense of identity.
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It seemed like they were pushing their child to be gender neutral rather than allowing him to decide. Maybe I'm reading too much into the statement that "hyper-masculine" clothes were banned.
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On May 10 2012 07:06 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 07:00 Crushinator wrote:On May 10 2012 06:51 Doctorbeat wrote:On May 10 2012 06:50 Kurr wrote:On May 10 2012 06:46 ampson wrote:
Sucks for the kid. He's gonna have a tough time in society. Yep. Psycho parents forcing their kid into awkward situation. Unlucky child is all I can say. The parents are the people responsible for forming their child, especially in their early years. You don't need to make your child into a super-masculine boy, just raise him normally and it will be fine if you're responsible. But nope, want to prove a pointless point so let's fuck up the kid's life! This child will have a messed up identity and they are even forcing him to wear a girl's blouse at school. For fucks sake, how could they possibly think this is a good idea? Stories like this piss me off. Do you think the child would willingly outcast himself if he was old enough to understand everything going on? Of course not. When he's a teenager, he will be desperate to fit in like all teenagers, but he will be a ways behind because of his crazy parents. Kids are vicious, they will judge him permanently on this stuff. Have you read the article? They ain't forcing shit on the kid. They let the kid decide how he wants to dress and what toys to play with. The concern is that by artificially imposing a genderless environment, they are somewhat impeding the kids' ability to assume a gender role, which is something all kids tend to do naturally, and may play a role in development. While the things that are considered masculine and feminine are arbitrary, feminity and masculinity itself may not be. Pretty much all people seem to want to identify with one or the other gender, regardless of upbringing. I understand that and agree, but nowhere in the article is mentioned that the kid wears the girl's blouse because of his parents. It could very well be his own decision.
Not true. It says that his mother is intervening, indicating that it is infact his mothers decision for him to wear it, not his.
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Dear god... That poor child is going to have issues when he grows up.
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On May 10 2012 07:10 LarJarsE wrote:
I think it's pretty fucked up to the child for parents to decide that a child is gender neutral, or to not let a child understand the importance wether you have a penis or vagina.. I think its fucking important! Gender makes life interesting! I'm masculine, and I'm quite attracted to femininity! Tension between genders makes life interesting. Sexual tension. Emotional tension.
1: they didn't decide their child was gender neutral, they just didn't tell anyone what their childs sex was to let them impose a gender, and let the kid decide on his own that he was a guy,
2: genitals != gender identity.
The child (which may or may not be biologically male) has, apparently from the article, decided his gender. So they went public with it.
I still dislike this experiment, but I cannot figure out why. It seems good on paper but, I'm not sure if trying to shield from societal pressures is a good thing--it really shapes how typical members of a gender act in society. I think trying to remove those pressures can hold back social ease, and instead just accepting and supporting a transgender child would be easier if said child decides they aren't their gender assigned at birth--statistically speaking, it's quite unlikely they'll be transgendered anyways.
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On May 10 2012 07:14 Sabu113 wrote:
It seemed like they were pushing their child to be gender neutral rather than allowing him to decide. Maybe I'm reading too much into the statement that "hyper-masculine" clothes were banned.
I think you're reading exactly what the situation is.
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This is gonna end really badly, considering the Scarlett/ Miss Universe fiasco that went down a few weeks ago.
Ignorant people will begin to talk about sex and gender like they are the same thing and then this thread will become a flamewar.
Seriously, who cares what these parents do? They're attention-seekers, as long as they don't harm their child I don't see why there is so much fuss.
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EPT
