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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:31 hypercube wrote: I think it makes some people deeply uncomfortable. They want to believe that it will leave some scar on the kid. While I wouldn't say that as fact, I'd lean towards thinking that too; at least as a possibility. Like Eppa! said, humans (or animals and nature in general) are very adaptive creatures. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:38 Thrasymachus725 wrote: A childs development is not necessarily a cognitive process... they don't need to think and ponder what is gender identity. It is built, developed and deciphered by the childs brain beyond his own reasoning. Disrupting that process will cause problems, I can almost guarantee. What is the basis of this idea? Disrupting it would be something like isolation. | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
F*cking pathetic. | ||
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furerkip
United States439 Posts
On May 10 2012 06:14 The KY wrote: The whole idea was weird and to be honest I suspect the kids parents are deeply, deeply tiresome people. Yeah you wanna avoid stereotypes shaping who your child becomes, want him to just be a kid? I mean, there's no way going 'Hey! Hey everybody! My kid is gender neutral! I'm not telling you if it's a boy or a girl! Hey! Hey look how fucking open minded we are!' is gonna affect the child's upbringing. Nope. Definitely not. I agree wholeheartedly. | ||
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SharkSpider
Canada606 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:24 Kurr wrote: If you honestly think this "experiment" challenge's anyone's world view I don't even know what to tell you. Good post. These parents obviously want attention and to be proven right. That's not a good thing for the child. This was my initial reaction to hearing the story the first time. People seem to be way more enthusiastic about breaking gender roles for kids when they're trying to get a boy to act like a typical girl, and to a smaller extent, when they're trying to get a girl to act like a typical boy. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:28 Thrasymachus725 wrote: Or the view that children who are different get tortured in school? Lots of kids get tortured in school. The main reasons are lack of social skill and bad luck. If they choose his school wisely and are competent this will be a non-issue. There are ways to truly fuck up your child's life, like emotional abuse or neglect. Or worse. And it happens to a lot of kids. Like hundreds of millions. Yet, we chose to focus on kid who seems to live in a healthy emotional environment, but his parents have some quirky views about sex and gender. I think that tells more about us than the parents. The most important years of his development have been hindered by his parents desire to "fix the world". And what kind of development would that be? Are you an expert on child development or do you just believe that being taught that they are girls or boys is important? | ||
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soon.Cloak
United States983 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
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NucNac
Germany64 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:32 Eppa! wrote: More like letting someone out of a padded cell and letting them run free for better and worse. Saying it will ruin the kids childhood is silly, animals are genetically very adaptive and normative. I ran around naked and play with soft animals. I had no concept of gender until I was 8+ now I am social apt and very normal. A lot of kids have a gender neutral early childhood these days sex!=gender. I don't think your sex is just a physical phenomenon. Boys and girls have different needs and they will express them themselves. You can't set one free by forcing him to be, it just works if you let him be. The parents are struck with an idea and they try to bring this idea to life through their own child, talk about mad scientists. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4830 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:43 SharkSpider wrote: This was my initial reaction to hearing the story the first time. People seem to be way more enthusiastic about breaking gender roles for kids when they're trying to get a boy to act like a typical girl, and to a smaller extent, when they're trying to get a girl to act like a typical boy. Gender roles already come half-broken for girls in Western nations, don't they? Women are allowed to wear 'male' clothing such as pants and shirts, without color restrictions, and it's exciting and good that women want to participate in sports or male-dominated school subjects/career paths. Feminine boys/men get a lot more crap. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Lots of kids get tortured in school. The main reasons are lack of social skill and bad luck. Lots of kids get tortured in school because lots of children are cruel little monsters when establishing a social hierarchy. Not because the victims lack social skills and have bad luck. If they chose his school wisely and are competent this will be a non-issue. Hahahaha no. "Competent" parents have little to no power whatsoever over how their child is treated by his peers. Or her peers. Or, its peers! Choosing a school, being engaged with the teachers and administration, oversight of who the child is friends with, it means very little. Children form and enforce their own social hierarchies independent of and usually in defiance of adults, even at an early age. There are ways to truly fuck up your child's life, like emotional abuse or neglect. Or worse. And it happens to a lot of kids. Like hundreds of millions. Yet, we chose to focus on kid who seems to live in a healthy emotional environment, but his parents have some quirky views about sex and gender. I think that tells more about us than the parents. It tells us more about some people's wish to show off their ideology the way most people would a flashy new car with a complete lack of regard (borne of arrogance) for the social well-being and development of an internal identity of the child. And what kind of development would that be? Are you an expert on child development or do you just believe that being taught that they are girls or boys is important? Development as an individual human being with a firm sense of self-identity that can stand up to the social rigors of childhood and the transition to adulthood. Are you an expert on child development, or are you just asking that question because you think what these parents are doing is okay and you don't have a real argument as to why? | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
I don't see how cargo pants are hyper masculine. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:50 Severedevil wrote: Gender roles already come half-broken for girls in Western nations, don't they? Women are allowed to wear 'male' clothing such as pants and shirts, without color restrictions, and it's exciting and good that women want to participate in sports or male-dominated school subjects/career paths. Feminine boys/men get a lot more crap. Feminine boys/men afaik don't get a lot of crap. In fact, from what i've seen, they get laid a lot more often because they get close to so many girls. 'male' women stand out and tend to be rather isolated. It's true they don't receive any direct sort of discrimination, but they definitely don't fit in as well as the rest. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
"As long as he has good relationships and good friends," she says, "then nothing else matters, does it?" well that's mostly true. though i feel like she might still not be thinking it through the whole way | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
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Celestia
Mexico376 Posts
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ArchAngelSC
England706 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:56 sc2superfan101 wrote: im curious, is he the one who wants to wear the girls blouse or is it the parents? they made it sound like it was the parents but earlier it sounded like their whole thing was letting him wear whatever he wanted. well that's mostly true. though i feel like she might still not be thinking it through the whole way They let him wear what he wants, so long as it's the same as what the parents want him to wear. From reading the article it definitely sounds like the parents are deciding he's going to wear it. | ||
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Nekosan78
United Kingdom7 Posts
In no way are they doing themselves or their kid a favour. All they did was massage their "alternative" and pseudo intellectual egos. Kids will be kids regardless of what labels you put on them and at some point reality will always catch up with them, keeping them from it does more damage than good. It is ridiculous what an impact you can have on your child's life from a developmental perspective at such an age. It's for cases like this social services should step in and declare the parents unfit to look after / have further children. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On May 10 2012 07:53 DeepElemBlues wrote: Lots of kids get tortured in school because lots of children are cruel little monsters when establishing a social hierarchy. Not because the victims lack social skills and have bad luck. Hahahaha no. "Competent" parents have little to no power whatsoever over how their child is treated by his peers. Or her peers. Or, its peers! Choosing a school, being engaged with the teachers and administration, oversight of who the child is friends with, it means very little. Children form and enforce their own social hierarchies independent of and usually in defiance of adults, even at an early age. They have a lot of influence on how the kid reacts to the challenges that come up. That in turn has an effect on how the situation develops. It tells us more about some people's wish to show off their ideology the way most people would a flashy new car with a complete lack of regard (borne of arrogance) for the social well-being and development of an internal identity of the child. You weren't addressing my point, so I don't see why you quoted that part of my post. But yeah, I'm not sure about the parents' motivation. If they are truly attention whores who are using their kid for their 15 minutes of fame that's a problem. Not because they are hurting the child's development, but because they are using him. Development as an individual human being with a firm sense of self-identity that can stand up to the social rigors of childhood and the transition to adulthood. Are you an expert on child development, or are you just asking that question because you think what these parents are doing is okay and you don't have a real argument as to why? No and I should have said that when I said that when I said "the kid's gonna be fine". But if you're making a statement that "The most important years of his development have been hindered" you absolutely need to say what you base that on. If it's your opinion don't make it sound like an authoritative statement. | ||
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