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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 06 2012 01:27 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 01:24 Chocobo wrote:On May 06 2012 01:08 Mordiford wrote:On May 06 2012 00:47 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 23:45 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 23:21 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 23:17 Swift118 wrote:
Im not sure who is more sad; Destiny or all the neckbeards hating on him. I can answer that for you- it's side who is trying to control other people's actions. You still seem to be twisting this around. Destiny can do whatever the fuck he wants, he just has to deal with the consequences that come with it. He's in this situation because of his own behavior. I'm sorry, but no. You are the one who isn't seeing this clearly. Just because Destiny physically has the ability to do what he wants, that doesn't mean that his opponents aren't trying to control his actions. And the "consequences that come with it" have dramatically changed because these people, acting as morality police, have decided to create more serious consequences for him. This is a very extreme example, but suppose you lived in North Korea and got thrown in prison for not showing enough sadness at Kim Jong Il's funeral. Could I say "hey, you can do whatever you want, but now you're just dealing with the consequences of your actions"? The point is that if the consequences are more extreme than what is appropriate for the situation, it's not a good thing. There is nothing wrong with people letting Razer know that they don't like Destiny. Yes. There. Is. YES THERE IS. I can't say this enough times! If you don't like Destiny's stream, don't watch it. Don't support him. You can even stop watching competition that he is entered in. But if something doesn't please you... just avoid it! You don't need to try to have it changed, or have it punished because you don't like it! If other people are entertained by it, let them enjoy it and you can go off and enjoy something else. But the TL community wasn't mature enough to do that. Instead, the attitude of "fuck that guy, I don't like him, I want him to conform to my demands or else I'm going to do whatever I can to harm him" was used. That attitude is not fucking OK. There is something wrong with doing that. And on a secondary level, it's bad for the growth of E-sports. Do you know what happens if this kind of action becomes more common? If Razer is being threatened with boycotts and PR nightmares on a frequent basis, they will simply stop sponsoring gaming teams, because it will stop being worth it. Mass-complaining to a sponsor and threatening boycotts or public accusations of "this company doesn't care if people are racist!" is an action that should only be used as a last resort. Instead, this time it was one of the first ideas that people came up with, and the unthinking mob just followed along with it. If people tried to make Thorzain use inappropriate language and slurs by complaining to Razer that mouz.Thorzain is too vanilla, it would accomplish fuck all in terms of actually hurting Mouz and just make Razer think the community is retarded. Sure, some people who are squeaky clean would be immune to it. Many others, included well-liked players like Huk, have had their moments of inappropriate language, using "faggot" or "nigga" or whatever else. Get a big enough crowd and a handful of ugly screenshots and half the players out there could potentially get dropped from their teams. Well, I think the situation of an angry mob of complainers demanding that people be fired is a pretty fucked up situation, and if it happens on a regular basis it will literally destroy E-sports. This only worked because it was in line with Razer's views, I doubt they'd want themselves associated with racial slurs in any manner. It's that simple. It worked because they can't afford to risk the PR problems of being seen as a company that doesn't punish those views. Quantic and Razer didn't give a shit about it previously. It worked because the angry mob forced them into a situation of having to choose to fire Destiny or risk a PR nightmare. I stand by my statement that it is fucked up when things like people's employment status is determined via angry mob. Your North Korean example is too extreme to even respond to. When the only argument you can broach is from oppressive governments threatening their citizens, there really isn't much to say. It's an analogy. If you understand what they are, then Google it and learn about it. The point I was making is "if something is wrong on a large scale, then it is also wrong on a smaller scale". You seem to be under the impression that I was saying that censoring Destiny is literally as bad as North Korea jailing people who don't worship the Dear Leader. That is not the case. But here, let me use the opposite extreme to show you why this doesn't work. My boss tells me I need to stop calling all the women in the office, "sweet cheeks", "sugar baby" and "honey tits" but I don't want to. He fires me. What an asshole for trying to "force me" to do something right? That is not the same situation at all. A more comparable situation would be if you were at a bar and started calling women those things. Then the women decided that you need to be punished for your inappropriate behavior, so they went to your boss and demanded that you be fired from your job, or else they'll hold a public protest outside of your workplace. If not, then there's clearly a line at which point "forcing" someone to do something or imposing consequences is acceptable. I absolutely agree with this. But I cannot see how the situation of "a person is trying to put on an entertaining show for his audience, and part of it is that he's speaking his mind and being completely uncensored in front of an audience who can choose to watch or not watch it" is something that calls for this kind of response. I'm sorry but if my analogy doesn't apply, how does your North Korean one apply? They're both an example of someone who has the power to make someone change their behavior or suffer consequences.
My analogy correctly reflected the situation, which is described as this: a group of people are demanding that individuals conform to the group's standards, or else face a punishment. The individual is free to choose whether to conform.
Yours did not accurately reflect the situation. For yours to be accurate, the situation would involve Destiny going to a meeting involving members of Quantic and Razer, and calling them racist terms. Destiny and his ladder opponents are not co-workers who share the same boss, nor is the SC2 ladder their workplace.
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On May 06 2012 02:13 PlaGuE_R wrote:
why is niggers offensive? because black people let themselves be offended by it
why is x offensive? BECAUSE YOU LET YOURSELF BE OFFENDED BY IT.
I mean seriously, if some guy came up to me and called me some dirty sand nigger or french fag, i don't care. His opinion doesn't matter to me, why the hell should it matter to you? if someone calls you a nigger, good for them, they're idiots, move on.
People get offended, nothing is offensive, people are just morons. If you get offended, you're an idiot. Plain and simple. Unless, his comment was directed SPECIFICALLY at YOU, you have no right to get offended, and even then, getting offended by someone insulting is pointless, waa, he hurt my feelings, whatever. Just rise above, act like a mature, civilized being and just ignore it. You know why? if you get angry, or if you get offended, the people who offend you are enjoying it. Look at his post, the only thing he's sad about is how it put quantic in trouble, if he had been team-less he wouldn't give a damn.
I hope no one gets offended by my post
I always thought that if my opponent rages at me and starts calling me names I was supposed to laugh and enjoy my even sweeter victory.
Some people choose not to enjoy it though..T'is sad.
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On May 06 2012 02:21 FlamingForce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 02:09 Leth0 wrote:On May 06 2012 02:03 FlamingForce wrote:On May 06 2012 02:03 Leth0 wrote:On May 06 2012 01:55 FlamingForce wrote:On May 06 2012 01:38 Erasme wrote:On May 05 2012 12:40 ETisME wrote:On May 05 2012 12:37 SergioCQH wrote:
I am glad that a racist was kicked off a professional StarCraft 2 team. Destiny can be as racist as he wants on his stream, but that kind of behavior is unacceptable if he wants to be a part of the professional scene. One rotten apple spoils the whole bushel. he is not a racist. Stop discriminating and stereotyping people. Well, on one hand we can see on his stream multiples racists behavior and on the othe hand we have Destiny that want us to trust him that he's not racist ... ya if someone call a lot of people gook/nigger but assures me hes not racist, i'll believe him. Can't help but think of something CatZ said a while back. "Some people just don't have the mental capacity to understand context" Ah, found it. Kid plays a video game and gets mad because he loses , curses and insults the winning player with racial slurs. That's the context. You don't just get to say w/e the hell you please and use "context" as an excuse. I've seen you post too much stupid shit to consider a serious response. Some of us are articulate enough to get our point across without lowering ourselves to petty insults. Insults are insults, you just take the time to conceal yours better, I can't be arsed to do that.
So intelligent responses offend you? If you want to throw around the word "context'' then you shouldn't be surprised when people respond with what the 'context' actually is and the absurdity of people using the word 'context' to legitimize using racial slurs to maliciously insult some body who beat you in a video game
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On May 06 2012 02:29 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 02:21 FlamingForce wrote:On May 06 2012 02:09 Leth0 wrote:On May 06 2012 02:03 FlamingForce wrote:On May 06 2012 02:03 Leth0 wrote:On May 06 2012 01:55 FlamingForce wrote:On May 06 2012 01:38 Erasme wrote:On May 05 2012 12:40 ETisME wrote:On May 05 2012 12:37 SergioCQH wrote:
I am glad that a racist was kicked off a professional StarCraft 2 team. Destiny can be as racist as he wants on his stream, but that kind of behavior is unacceptable if he wants to be a part of the professional scene. One rotten apple spoils the whole bushel. he is not a racist. Stop discriminating and stereotyping people. Well, on one hand we can see on his stream multiples racists behavior and on the othe hand we have Destiny that want us to trust him that he's not racist ... ya if someone call a lot of people gook/nigger but assures me hes not racist, i'll believe him. Can't help but think of something CatZ said a while back. "Some people just don't have the mental capacity to understand context" Ah, found it. Kid plays a video game and gets mad because he loses , curses and insults the winning player with racial slurs. That's the context. You don't just get to say w/e the hell you please and use "context" as an excuse. I've seen you post too much stupid shit to consider a serious response. Some of us are articulate enough to get our point across without lowering ourselves to petty insults. Insults are insults, you just take the time to conceal yours better, I can't be arsed to do that. So intelligent responses offend you? If you want to throw around the word "context'' then you shouldn't be surprised when people respond with what the 'context' actually is and the absurdity of people using the word 'context' to legitimize using racial slurs to maliciously insult some body who beat you in a video game
I'm still looking for this "Intelligent" response of yours but regardless of it's existence, no, I don't think any response on the internet has managed to offend me in the last 8 years or so, I guess that's when my spine started forming?
Don't really see what made you think I was offended, I was just pointing out the fact that you were being more subtle with your insults than I am and that I'm too lazy too do the same.
Plague_R put it quite well.
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The context was that he used a racial slur for Asians to insult an Asian person because he was mad at him. How exactly does that lend itself to Destiny's defense?
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Canada11260 Posts
This debate has been very strange. I feel like people have this cartoon idea of what racist is. Some card-carrying member of the KKK and spouting neo-nazi propaganda. Maybe spouting racial insults doesn't make one a racist, but how many 'contextual' acts of racisim does it take to make one a racist?
I strongly suspect that the modern time are post-racism. Not in the sense that racism is gone, but in the sense that overt racism is culturally unacceptable and absolutely nobody accept a small hold-out actually considers themselves a racist. I suspect most people consider themselves pretty good people and probably they are. However, those same pretty good people still have all sorts of wonderful justifications to why they are not racist, but can continue to behave however they please with no regard to others. And sometimes these pretty good people can justify covert or institutional racism.
I find it funny that people concerned about racism are somehow propagaters of racism. When did that happen? Blame Luther King. I guess he should've just stopped talking about it and it will all go away. I have a dream! That you will all go back home and stop talking about this.... we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to turn to each other and yell racial slurs at each other. In fact. Do that right now. If you can't yell a racial slur at your brother or sister, you are probably a racist.
(Don't go crazy. I'm not comparing 'contextual' racial insults to institutional and state-sponsored racism... just the absurdity of some of this threads arguments.)
But sure, I don't think Destiny is a racist. I actually kinda like the guy. But freedom of speech is not consequence free as even Michael Richards could tell you. But I find it strange that a guy that tries to create such an intellectual defence to say whatever he wants... is so black and white. That is, if you can't say racial insults, then you are no longer able to say 'nuke' or 'murder.' What sort of false dilema is that?
And I absolutely agree that the team should have been contacted NOT the sponsors. Sponsors are the last resort, not the first.
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On May 06 2012 02:29 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 01:27 Mordiford wrote:On May 06 2012 01:24 Chocobo wrote:On May 06 2012 01:08 Mordiford wrote:On May 06 2012 00:47 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 23:45 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 23:21 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 23:17 Swift118 wrote:
Im not sure who is more sad; Destiny or all the neckbeards hating on him. I can answer that for you- it's side who is trying to control other people's actions. You still seem to be twisting this around. Destiny can do whatever the fuck he wants, he just has to deal with the consequences that come with it. He's in this situation because of his own behavior. I'm sorry, but no. You are the one who isn't seeing this clearly. Just because Destiny physically has the ability to do what he wants, that doesn't mean that his opponents aren't trying to control his actions. And the "consequences that come with it" have dramatically changed because these people, acting as morality police, have decided to create more serious consequences for him. This is a very extreme example, but suppose you lived in North Korea and got thrown in prison for not showing enough sadness at Kim Jong Il's funeral. Could I say "hey, you can do whatever you want, but now you're just dealing with the consequences of your actions"? The point is that if the consequences are more extreme than what is appropriate for the situation, it's not a good thing. There is nothing wrong with people letting Razer know that they don't like Destiny. Yes. There. Is. YES THERE IS. I can't say this enough times! If you don't like Destiny's stream, don't watch it. Don't support him. You can even stop watching competition that he is entered in. But if something doesn't please you... just avoid it! You don't need to try to have it changed, or have it punished because you don't like it! If other people are entertained by it, let them enjoy it and you can go off and enjoy something else. But the TL community wasn't mature enough to do that. Instead, the attitude of "fuck that guy, I don't like him, I want him to conform to my demands or else I'm going to do whatever I can to harm him" was used. That attitude is not fucking OK. There is something wrong with doing that. And on a secondary level, it's bad for the growth of E-sports. Do you know what happens if this kind of action becomes more common? If Razer is being threatened with boycotts and PR nightmares on a frequent basis, they will simply stop sponsoring gaming teams, because it will stop being worth it. Mass-complaining to a sponsor and threatening boycotts or public accusations of "this company doesn't care if people are racist!" is an action that should only be used as a last resort. Instead, this time it was one of the first ideas that people came up with, and the unthinking mob just followed along with it. If people tried to make Thorzain use inappropriate language and slurs by complaining to Razer that mouz.Thorzain is too vanilla, it would accomplish fuck all in terms of actually hurting Mouz and just make Razer think the community is retarded. Sure, some people who are squeaky clean would be immune to it. Many others, included well-liked players like Huk, have had their moments of inappropriate language, using "faggot" or "nigga" or whatever else. Get a big enough crowd and a handful of ugly screenshots and half the players out there could potentially get dropped from their teams. Well, I think the situation of an angry mob of complainers demanding that people be fired is a pretty fucked up situation, and if it happens on a regular basis it will literally destroy E-sports. This only worked because it was in line with Razer's views, I doubt they'd want themselves associated with racial slurs in any manner. It's that simple. It worked because they can't afford to risk the PR problems of being seen as a company that doesn't punish those views. Quantic and Razer didn't give a shit about it previously. It worked because the angry mob forced them into a situation of having to choose to fire Destiny or risk a PR nightmare. I stand by my statement that it is fucked up when things like people's employment status is determined via angry mob. Your North Korean example is too extreme to even respond to. When the only argument you can broach is from oppressive governments threatening their citizens, there really isn't much to say. It's an analogy. If you understand what they are, then Google it and learn about it. The point I was making is "if something is wrong on a large scale, then it is also wrong on a smaller scale". You seem to be under the impression that I was saying that censoring Destiny is literally as bad as North Korea jailing people who don't worship the Dear Leader. That is not the case. But here, let me use the opposite extreme to show you why this doesn't work. My boss tells me I need to stop calling all the women in the office, "sweet cheeks", "sugar baby" and "honey tits" but I don't want to. He fires me. What an asshole for trying to "force me" to do something right? That is not the same situation at all. A more comparable situation would be if you were at a bar and started calling women those things. Then the women decided that you need to be punished for your inappropriate behavior, so they went to your boss and demanded that you be fired from your job, or else they'll hold a public protest outside of your workplace. If not, then there's clearly a line at which point "forcing" someone to do something or imposing consequences is acceptable. I absolutely agree with this. But I cannot see how the situation of "a person is trying to put on an entertaining show for his audience, and part of it is that he's speaking his mind and being completely uncensored in front of an audience who can choose to watch or not watch it" is something that calls for this kind of response. I'm sorry but if my analogy doesn't apply, how does your North Korean one apply? They're both an example of someone who has the power to make someone change their behavior or suffer consequences. My analogy correctly reflected the situation, which is described as this: a group of people are demanding that individuals conform to the group's standards, or else face a punishment. The individual is free to choose whether to conform. Yours did not accurately reflect the situation. For yours to be accurate, the situation would involve Destiny going to a meeting involving members of Quantic and Razer, and calling them racist terms. Destiny and his ladder opponents are not co-workers who share the same boss, nor is the SC2 ladder their workplace.
And how is the North Korean government throwing someone in jail for not crying enough anything like the Destiny situation? It isn't either, you were using an extreme and inapplicable example, I specifically stated mine was there to show how ridiculous yours was.
Here, let's do this one then. The government says you can't defecate on public property or you'll be penalized. That's basically the exact same thing as your North Korean example only it's a lot more understandable. However, your overarching statement still applies here which would make it an unacceptable demand as well. Extend this to just about any ridiculous example you want.
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I think you guys are getting really carried away with these 'analogies'. The 'ray charles' posts someone had written made more sense.(they were certainly more entertaining)
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On May 06 2012 02:53 Falling wrote:
I find it funny that people concerned about racism are somehow propagaters of racism. When did that happen? Blame Luther King. I guess he should've just stopped talking about it and it will all go away. I have a dream! That you will all go back home and stop talking about this.... we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to turn to each other and yell racial slurs at each other. In fact. Do that right now. If you can't yell a racial slur at your brother or sister, you are probably a racist.
(Don't go crazy. I'm not comparing 'contextual' racial insults to institutional and state-sponsored racism... just the absurdity of some of this threads arguments.)
Only thing is Destiny's racial slurs over stream to his own viewers and to an opponent who decided not to turn on Mature Language Filter if he was really offended by these kind of things are not comparable to how blacks in Luther King's time were actually having their rights being stepped upon by racists who actually take physical steps to try to carry out their racism (which Destiny has public stated that he would never ever do)
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Though the utility of having destiny on a roster can be debated, and I do not approve of what he did,all these sequences were somewhat expected.
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Canada11260 Posts
On May 06 2012 03:07 dmasterding wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 02:53 Falling wrote:
I find it funny that people concerned about racism are somehow propagaters of racism. When did that happen? Blame Luther King. I guess he should've just stopped talking about it and it will all go away. I have a dream! That you will all go back home and stop talking about this.... we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to turn to each other and yell racial slurs at each other. In fact. Do that right now. If you can't yell a racial slur at your brother or sister, you are probably a racist.
(Don't go crazy. I'm not comparing 'contextual' racial insults to institutional and state-sponsored racism... just the absurdity of some of this threads arguments.)
Only thing is Destiny's racial slurs over stream to his own viewers and to an opponent who decided not to turn on Mature Language Filter if he was really offended by these kind of things are not comparable to how blacks in Luther King's time were actually having their rights being stepped upon by racists who actually take physical steps to try to carry out their racism (which Destiny has public stated that he would never ever do)
Again, I wasn't comparing institutional racism to this. But rather this strange argument that Destiny's words should be consequence free and that if people have a problem with it, somehow they're the racists.
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Brunei Darussalam566 Posts
On May 06 2012 03:01 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 02:29 Chocobo wrote:On May 06 2012 01:27 Mordiford wrote:On May 06 2012 01:24 Chocobo wrote:On May 06 2012 01:08 Mordiford wrote:On May 06 2012 00:47 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 23:45 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 23:21 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 23:17 Swift118 wrote:
Im not sure who is more sad; Destiny or all the neckbeards hating on him. I can answer that for you- it's side who is trying to control other people's actions. You still seem to be twisting this around. Destiny can do whatever the fuck he wants, he just has to deal with the consequences that come with it. He's in this situation because of his own behavior. I'm sorry, but no. You are the one who isn't seeing this clearly. Just because Destiny physically has the ability to do what he wants, that doesn't mean that his opponents aren't trying to control his actions. And the "consequences that come with it" have dramatically changed because these people, acting as morality police, have decided to create more serious consequences for him. This is a very extreme example, but suppose you lived in North Korea and got thrown in prison for not showing enough sadness at Kim Jong Il's funeral. Could I say "hey, you can do whatever you want, but now you're just dealing with the consequences of your actions"? The point is that if the consequences are more extreme than what is appropriate for the situation, it's not a good thing. There is nothing wrong with people letting Razer know that they don't like Destiny. Yes. There. Is. YES THERE IS. I can't say this enough times! If you don't like Destiny's stream, don't watch it. Don't support him. You can even stop watching competition that he is entered in. But if something doesn't please you... just avoid it! You don't need to try to have it changed, or have it punished because you don't like it! If other people are entertained by it, let them enjoy it and you can go off and enjoy something else. But the TL community wasn't mature enough to do that. Instead, the attitude of "fuck that guy, I don't like him, I want him to conform to my demands or else I'm going to do whatever I can to harm him" was used. That attitude is not fucking OK. There is something wrong with doing that. And on a secondary level, it's bad for the growth of E-sports. Do you know what happens if this kind of action becomes more common? If Razer is being threatened with boycotts and PR nightmares on a frequent basis, they will simply stop sponsoring gaming teams, because it will stop being worth it. Mass-complaining to a sponsor and threatening boycotts or public accusations of "this company doesn't care if people are racist!" is an action that should only be used as a last resort. Instead, this time it was one of the first ideas that people came up with, and the unthinking mob just followed along with it. If people tried to make Thorzain use inappropriate language and slurs by complaining to Razer that mouz.Thorzain is too vanilla, it would accomplish fuck all in terms of actually hurting Mouz and just make Razer think the community is retarded. Sure, some people who are squeaky clean would be immune to it. Many others, included well-liked players like Huk, have had their moments of inappropriate language, using "faggot" or "nigga" or whatever else. Get a big enough crowd and a handful of ugly screenshots and half the players out there could potentially get dropped from their teams. Well, I think the situation of an angry mob of complainers demanding that people be fired is a pretty fucked up situation, and if it happens on a regular basis it will literally destroy E-sports. This only worked because it was in line with Razer's views, I doubt they'd want themselves associated with racial slurs in any manner. It's that simple. It worked because they can't afford to risk the PR problems of being seen as a company that doesn't punish those views. Quantic and Razer didn't give a shit about it previously. It worked because the angry mob forced them into a situation of having to choose to fire Destiny or risk a PR nightmare. I stand by my statement that it is fucked up when things like people's employment status is determined via angry mob. Your North Korean example is too extreme to even respond to. When the only argument you can broach is from oppressive governments threatening their citizens, there really isn't much to say. It's an analogy. If you understand what they are, then Google it and learn about it. The point I was making is "if something is wrong on a large scale, then it is also wrong on a smaller scale". You seem to be under the impression that I was saying that censoring Destiny is literally as bad as North Korea jailing people who don't worship the Dear Leader. That is not the case. But here, let me use the opposite extreme to show you why this doesn't work. My boss tells me I need to stop calling all the women in the office, "sweet cheeks", "sugar baby" and "honey tits" but I don't want to. He fires me. What an asshole for trying to "force me" to do something right? That is not the same situation at all. A more comparable situation would be if you were at a bar and started calling women those things. Then the women decided that you need to be punished for your inappropriate behavior, so they went to your boss and demanded that you be fired from your job, or else they'll hold a public protest outside of your workplace. If not, then there's clearly a line at which point "forcing" someone to do something or imposing consequences is acceptable. I absolutely agree with this. But I cannot see how the situation of "a person is trying to put on an entertaining show for his audience, and part of it is that he's speaking his mind and being completely uncensored in front of an audience who can choose to watch or not watch it" is something that calls for this kind of response. I'm sorry but if my analogy doesn't apply, how does your North Korean one apply? They're both an example of someone who has the power to make someone change their behavior or suffer consequences. My analogy correctly reflected the situation, which is described as this: a group of people are demanding that individuals conform to the group's standards, or else face a punishment. The individual is free to choose whether to conform. Yours did not accurately reflect the situation. For yours to be accurate, the situation would involve Destiny going to a meeting involving members of Quantic and Razer, and calling them racist terms. Destiny and his ladder opponents are not co-workers who share the same boss, nor is the SC2 ladder their workplace. And how is the North Korean government throwing someone in jail for not crying enough anything like the Destiny situation? It isn't either, you were using an extreme and inapplicable example, I specifically stated mine was there to show how ridiculous yours was. Here, let's do this one then. The government says you can't defecate on public property or you'll be penalized. That's basically the exact same thing as your North Korean example only it's a lot more understandable. However, your overarching statement still applies here which would make it an unacceptable demand as well. Extend this to just about any ridiculous example you want.
Although I think people do go overboard with the whole "run to the sponsors" thing (e.g. the orb situation, since EG --- apparently --- had no idea of his ladder antics), I gotta agree with Mordiford here.
There's no place for racial slurs in a professional environment --- period. Destiny claims that he streamed behind a "+18 explicit language wall", but that doesn't change the fact that, while streaming, he's representing Quantic, Razer and, to some extent, Esports. Additionally, Quantic picked up Destiny fully aware of his past behaviour, and neither he nor the team seemed to be doing anything about it. Thus, contacting the sponsors, in this particular case, is a reasonable attitude, albeit I'd estimate that maybe 80% of the people emailing Razer were doing it either because of their hate for Destiny and/or need for drama, which is pretty sad.
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On May 06 2012 02:13 PlaGuE_R wrote:
why is niggers offensive? because black people let themselves be offended by it
why is x offensive? BECAUSE YOU LET YOURSELF BE OFFENDED BY IT.
I mean seriously, if some guy came up to me and called me some dirty sand nigger or french fag, i don't care. His opinion doesn't matter to me, why the hell should it matter to you? if someone calls you a nigger, good for them, they're idiots, move on.
People get offended, nothing is offensive, people are just morons. If you get offended, you're an idiot. Plain and simple. Unless, his comment was directed SPECIFICALLY at YOU, you have no right to get offended, and even then, getting offended by someone insulting is pointless, waa, he hurt my feelings, whatever. Just rise above, act like a mature, civilized being and just ignore it. You know why? if you get angry, or if you get offended, the people who offend you are enjoying it. Look at his post, the only thing he's sad about is how it put quantic in trouble, if he had been team-less he wouldn't give a damn.
I hope no one gets offended by my post
It isn't I don't think. I hear the N word in 90% of rap songs. Black people are the biggest users of the N word.
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I'll be perfectly honest, when Destiny called his opponent a "gook," I was really fucking disappointed. I've defended his use of racial slurs in the past and I still do today because I agree with most of what he says. Looking at it from his perspective, trying to think of something really insulting to say, but also something his opponent would understand as a Korean, I can see how in the spur of the moment, he could have meant it in an absolutely non-racist way; just the only word that came to mind that could really hurt his opponent in a moment of serious anger. But that's not an excuse for how the context played out. He straight-up called a Korean a "gook," and there's nothing I can really say to justify that. What disgusts me is that people reference his past actions as somehow the same as this, and use THAT to justify his leaving Quantic. His past use of racial slurs has NOTHING in common with this isolated incident and deserves no bearing upon it.
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On May 06 2012 02:13 PlaGuE_R wrote:
why is niggers offensive? because black people let themselves be offended by it
why is x offensive? BECAUSE YOU LET YOURSELF BE OFFENDED BY IT.
I mean seriously, if some guy came up to me and called me some dirty sand nigger or french fag, i don't care. His opinion doesn't matter to me, why the hell should it matter to you? if someone calls you a nigger, good for them, they're idiots, move on.
People get offended, nothing is offensive, people are just morons. If you get offended, you're an idiot. Plain and simple. Unless, his comment was directed SPECIFICALLY at YOU, you have no right to get offended, and even then, getting offended by someone insulting is pointless, waa, he hurt my feelings, whatever. Just rise above, act like a mature, civilized being and just ignore it. You know why? if you get angry, or if you get offended, the people who offend you are enjoying it. Look at his post, the only thing he's sad about is how it put quantic in trouble, if he had been team-less he wouldn't give a damn.
I hope no one gets offended by my post
I completely disagree with you, and want to post what BroOd had stated earlier in the thread. I think what he says sums up peoples anger perfectly.
Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point.
Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent.
Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together.
This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness.
Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today.
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On May 06 2012 03:23 Shantastic wrote:
What disgusts me is that people reference his past actions as somehow the same as this, and use THAT to justify his leaving Quantic. His past use of racial slurs has NOTHING in common with this isolated incident and deserves no bearing upon it.
You mean like when he called an Asian guy on LoL "gook" when he was mad at him?
On May 06 2012 03:20 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 02:13 PlaGuE_R wrote:
why is niggers offensive? because black people let themselves be offended by it
why is x offensive? BECAUSE YOU LET YOURSELF BE OFFENDED BY IT.
I mean seriously, if some guy came up to me and called me some dirty sand nigger or french fag, i don't care. His opinion doesn't matter to me, why the hell should it matter to you? if someone calls you a nigger, good for them, they're idiots, move on.
People get offended, nothing is offensive, people are just morons. If you get offended, you're an idiot. Plain and simple. Unless, his comment was directed SPECIFICALLY at YOU, you have no right to get offended, and even then, getting offended by someone insulting is pointless, waa, he hurt my feelings, whatever. Just rise above, act like a mature, civilized being and just ignore it. You know why? if you get angry, or if you get offended, the people who offend you are enjoying it. Look at his post, the only thing he's sad about is how it put quantic in trouble, if he had been team-less he wouldn't give a damn.
I hope no one gets offended by my post It isn't I don't think. I hear the N word in 90% of rap songs. Black people are the biggest users of the N word.
Yeah, let's pretend that there's zero distinction between "nigga" and "nigger".
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On May 06 2012 02:13 PlaGuE_R wrote:
why is niggers offensive? because black people let themselves be offended by it
why is x offensive? BECAUSE YOU LET YOURSELF BE OFFENDED BY IT.
I mean seriously, if some guy came up to me and called me some dirty sand nigger or french fag, i don't care. His opinion doesn't matter to me, why the hell should it matter to you? if someone calls you a nigger, good for them, they're idiots, move on.
People get offended, nothing is offensive, people are just morons. If you get offended, you're an idiot. Plain and simple. Unless, his comment was directed SPECIFICALLY at YOU, you have no right to get offended, and even then, getting offended by someone insulting is pointless, waa, he hurt my feelings, whatever. Just rise above, act like a mature, civilized being and just ignore it. You know why? if you get angry, or if you get offended, the people who offend you are enjoying it. Look at his post, the only thing he's sad about is how it put quantic in trouble, if he had been team-less he wouldn't give a damn.
I hope no one gets offended by my post
That's like saying murdering people is only bad because the victims let themselves be killed. As the victim of offensiveness/murder, you don't want to change your ways or adjust your life just to avoid being murdered or offended. This is where rights come in, to try to find a middle ground... (at least in the US, where they give freedom of speech but not without consequences)
Now I'm not saying that it's not silly to be offended by things like "nigger" especially if you weren't even living in the relevant time period in which it was an inflaming thing to say. Just your reasoning doesn't make sense.
That's not true that if you get offended, you're an idiot. It's called feelings, which don't work directly with your logical thinking.
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On May 06 2012 03:11 Romitelli wrote:
There's no place for racial slurs in a professional environment --- period.
Define "professional environment." I've always thought of Destiny as more an entertainer, and SC2 one of his tools for comedy. He makes money because of his personality, not his SC skills. If you consider comedy and entertainment a "professional environment," I don't see how you can make a general statement like that.
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On May 06 2012 03:27 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
That's like saying murdering people is only bad because the victims let themselves be killed. As the victim of offensiveness/murder, you don't want to change your ways or adjust your life just to avoid being murdered or offended. This is where rights come in, to try to find a middle ground... (at least in the US, where they give freedom of speech but not without consequences)
Now I'm not saying that it's not silly to be offended by things like "nigger" especially if you weren't even living in the relevant time period in which it was an inflaming thing to say. Just your reasoning doesn't make sense.
That's not true that if you get offended, you're an idiot. It's called feelings, which don't work directly with your logical thinking.
That's a terrible and disingenuous analogy. Murder is not relatable to saying mean things. In ANY way. And such an analogy trivializes people who have lost friends/families to murder.
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Brunei Darussalam566 Posts
On May 06 2012 03:28 Shantastic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 03:11 Romitelli wrote:
There's no place for racial slurs in a professional environment --- period. Define "professional environment." I've always thought of Destiny as more an entertainer, and SC2 one of his tools for comedy. He makes money because of his personality, not his SC skills. If you consider comedy and entertainment a "professional environment," I don't see how you can make a general statement like that.
I'm pretty sure Destiny considers himself, first and foremost, to be a professional SC2 player. Nevertheless, even if he didn't, and just sold his stream as a place for comedy and entertainment, he should've turned down an offer from Quantic (and any other team) and stayed playing solo, or maybe look for an individual sponsor fully aware of his antics. That's because, the moment he joins a team, and starts streaming with the Quantic and the Razer logo everywhere, he's joining the professional SC2 scene, whether he wants it or not.
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