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On April 16 2012 18:37 unknownGamer wrote:
I don't get why people want to call it E-sports, its like people are trying to mainstream it to be something that is applicable to the norm. Why call it a sport? It just makes you trying hard to be something you are not. Why not be proud of the games you are playing and create a whole new genre, Even the term "gamer" is avoided by "e-sports" people because they don't want to be looked down upon by people who don't play games for a living. Ridiculous. just call it "pro-gaming". Non-pretentious unlike "e-sports" and a signification that you are proud of who you are. A professional gamer.
Back on topic, if it will happen, it will happen. And with a huge sponsor like LG sponsoring IM team? I am not surprised. Bw is having problems with sponsorships and if someone like LG is sponsoring a sc2 team instead of a bw team then its a sign that sc2 is the current hot "pro-gaming" game.
Seriously? How is e-sports trying to be something it's not? It's most certainly an electronic sport, if you are afraid of the term that's ok but don't try and project your insecurities onto everyone.
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On April 16 2012 18:30 blubbdavid wrote:
I can already see it...the LR threads will become one huge shitstorm.
and it will be glorious 
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Owh well, I spent enough time in this "scene". I'll put more focus on training martial arts. At least that shit dont go away by some dumb thing.
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On April 16 2012 18:31 USvBleakill wrote:
imagine if sc2 would be 12 years old and bw the "new" one. We would have the same discussion. It´s in almost everything what have a "new" part/rule/something that the old guys defending their ground with shitstorms without any knowledge.
Do BW fans really cheer for the game? Or for the players? How many of you would watch games of some random bad bw semi pro´s? Would you say "yea the players are really really bad but BroodWar is sooooo awesome!!!!". I don´t think so.
And please stop blaming blizzard for wanting to make money. It´s a company not a war veterans helping union.
Like... all the time? Nearly every week of my bw mates will say hey I got this replay of scan wanna see? And he hosts it and 5 people join and we all watch and laugh. I would do that in SC2 as well except oh wait... we can't fucking host replays.
Except we don't say they are bad, we think they are really good still, because A+ iccup players are still 10x better than most GM players. How do I know this, Leenock was one.
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On April 16 2012 18:55 the`postman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:37 unknownGamer wrote:
I don't get why people want to call it E-sports, its like people are trying to mainstream it to be something that is applicable to the norm. Why call it a sport? It just makes you trying hard to be something you are not. Why not be proud of the games you are playing and create a whole new genre, Even the term "gamer" is avoided by "e-sports" people because they don't want to be looked down upon by people who don't play games for a living. Ridiculous. just call it "pro-gaming". Non-pretentious unlike "e-sports" and a signification that you are proud of who you are. A professional gamer.
Back on topic, if it will happen, it will happen. And with a huge sponsor like LG sponsoring IM team? I am not surprised. Bw is having problems with sponsorships and if someone like LG is sponsoring a sc2 team instead of a bw team then its a sign that sc2 is the current hot "pro-gaming" game. Seriously? How is e-sports trying to be something it's not? It's most certainly an electronic sport, if you are afraid of the term that's ok but don't try and project your insecurities onto everyone.
Because it is not a sport. Ahh fuck it, if you want to think its a sport then go ahead, can't believe I am wasting my time here arguing to people who think I am insecure when they call a game "e-sports" instead of having the balls to call themselves "professional-games."
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I'm going to use the excuse that Mind is slumping/playing horrendously because he's practicing SC2. It's my only source of consolation at this point.
The news that the BW Pros are practicing SC2 is kind of disappointing to hear because it implies that the OSL games coming up won't be as potentially good simply because of the fact that the pros are practicing two games at once now as opposed to one. Oh well, hopefully that's not the case.
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On April 16 2012 18:58 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:31 USvBleakill wrote:
imagine if sc2 would be 12 years old and bw the "new" one. We would have the same discussion. It´s in almost everything what have a "new" part/rule/something that the old guys defending their ground with shitstorms without any knowledge.
Do BW fans really cheer for the game? Or for the players? How many of you would watch games of some random bad bw semi pro´s? Would you say "yea the players are really really bad but BroodWar is sooooo awesome!!!!". I don´t think so.
And please stop blaming blizzard for wanting to make money. It´s a company not a war veterans helping union. Like... all the time? Nearly every week of my bw mates will say hey I got this replay of scan wanna see? And he hosts it and 5 people join and we all watch and laugh. I would do that in SC2 as well except oh wait... we can't fucking host replays. Except we don't say they are bad, we think they are really good still, because A+ iccup players are still 10x better than GM players. How do I know this, Leenock was one.
Not to mention awesome stuf like ISL and TGC! Oh noes, bad players, better not watch. It's ten times more fun than watching someone like Idra stream.
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"For the time being games will rotate every set but ace match is always BW."
Seems really awkward. "We'll play alternating quake live and quake3, maybe throw in some halo".
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On April 16 2012 18:55 unknownGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:50 Precipice wrote:On April 16 2012 18:37 unknownGamer wrote:
I don't get why people want to call it E-sports, its like people are trying to mainstream it to be something that is applicable to the norm. Why call it a sport? It just makes you trying hard to be something you are not. Why not be proud of the games you are playing and create a whole new genre, Even the term "gamer" is avoided by "e-sports" people because they don't want to be looked down upon by people who don't play games for a living. Ridiculous. just call it "pro-gaming". Non-pretentious unlike "e-sports" and a signification that you are proud of who you are. A professional gamer.
Back on topic, if it will happen, it will happen. The use of the term does not signify what it, tautologically is, but instead, what we aim for it to be - the place we want it to fulfill. What is a sport? What do you actually gain by suggesting that eSports is not or cannot be one. Your flawed understanding of this issue causes you to critque those who "believe in eSports" as people "[that] don't want to be looked down upon by people who don't play games for a living." Many of us have been involved in this for over 10 years. Many of us are adults with fully established careers and peer groups. We do not need "affirmation" from the theoretical "public at large". To understand what we want you have to understand the nature of sports today. The growth of physical sports in the Western world occured at the exact moment that we saw such things as the culmination of the industrial revolution and progressively fewer places/cultures to carry imperialism out upon. That is, physical sports grew in popularity at the exact moment that we needed to imagine ourselves as warriors - there were no longer places to realistically *be* warriors anymore. In that time, work was done physically. Thus, the sports themselves were physical. As we now move into a second modernity the work that we do is progressively electronic and digital, and at the same time, we still need heroes. We still need warriors. We need people that we can look to who can remind us that all of us, deep down, innately, have the power and potential to do great and incredible things should the time or situation arise. I'll tell you why it's an eSport. These games are eSports because just as physical competitions used to provide inspiration and harbor potential in eras past, so too, now, we as people immersed in computer technology; we as people who take more enjoyment from the mental and dexterous accomplishment of the competitive Starcraft player, find a sense of meaning in what these people can do. It's a sport because in each match is contained the desperate, innate, and personal desire of life. We each as I: I in my quest to survive this world must fight, and if the foe does something I did not expect then the message cannot be that I die; the message is that in the face of unexpected or impossible circumstances I can overcome through creativity, dedication, effort, striving, and will. Starcraft is an eSport because at its very core it is the language which speaks best to us. And what does this language say? Live. My father can have his football, but he understands, too, that I have my Starcraft. This isn't about validation. This is about inspiration. Did you know, korea called it esports because they wanted to make it relevant to the mainstream? There was an article years ago in my country about why the big shots decided to call BW esports, its precisely because they want it to be accepted to the culture mainstream and not shun upon. The name "E-sports" have never been about all the dramatic things you said. Its because they wanted to be respected by others.
Clearly you're not understanding the point that bw operates, at a core level, as a sport. It is doing the same things. Just because you think a sport requires a basketball hoop or running laps around the football field does not mean that *that* is what it is. Take a moment to define sports. You have completely failed to explain why Starcraft itself is not a sport. Whereas, by comparison, I have explained why eSports themselves, culturally, *are* the sport of the second modernity (fulfilling the same roles and functions). Just because you think I used hghi-faluting ideas that just ARENT WHAT ITS ABOUT really carries no value. If you'd like I can explain to you how even in archetypal construction eSports are acting out the things I described. The term eSports isn't misleading; it is fitting. If they termed it WORLD CLASS RACQUETBALL, that would be misleading. Also, while I *am* clearly being dramatic in this post, do you really think it is reasonable to accuse me of being dramatic in the previous one at the exact moment that you are wholly incapable of refuting any of my claims.
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On April 16 2012 19:01 Apex wrote:
I'm going to use the excuse that Mind is slumping/playing horrendously because he's practicing SC2. It's my only source of consolation at this point.
The news that the BW Pros are practicing SC2 is kind of disappointing to hear because it implies that the OSL games coming up won't be as potentially good simply because of the fact that the pros are practicing two games at once now as opposed to one. Oh well, hopefully that's not the case.
if they practice two games. NOT WAY TO HIYA LOSS THIS TIME !!!!!!!!
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On April 16 2012 19:02 OrchidThief wrote:
"For the time being games will rotate every set but ace match is always BW."
Seems really awkward. "We'll play alternating quake live and quake3, maybe throw in some halo".
Yeah... I couldn't figure out that line. Is it like two teams will play aganist each other and the scores would add up? Or are the scores seperated. Like if SKT wins bw and kt wins sc2 would it be 1:1? or different scores
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On April 16 2012 18:55 the`postman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:37 unknownGamer wrote:
I don't get why people want to call it E-sports, its like people are trying to mainstream it to be something that is applicable to the norm. Why call it a sport? It just makes you trying hard to be something you are not. Why not be proud of the games you are playing and create a whole new genre, Even the term "gamer" is avoided by "e-sports" people because they don't want to be looked down upon by people who don't play games for a living. Ridiculous. just call it "pro-gaming". Non-pretentious unlike "e-sports" and a signification that you are proud of who you are. A professional gamer.
Back on topic, if it will happen, it will happen. And with a huge sponsor like LG sponsoring IM team? I am not surprised. Bw is having problems with sponsorships and if someone like LG is sponsoring a sc2 team instead of a bw team then its a sign that sc2 is the current hot "pro-gaming" game. Seriously? How is e-sports trying to be something it's not? It's most certainly an electronic sport, if you are afraid of the term that's ok but don't try and project your insecurities onto everyone.
I will always call it eSports! I am a "professional" chess player and can not accept, why it is not declared as a sport too, which is basically the same issue... Have you ever played a 6 hour tournament match? Man I tell you this is so freaking exhausting... same goes for SC2.
But in fact "Sports" is only a word which exists in different languages. And languages are out there to be interpreted otherwise there would not be any discussion on anything^^ So please accept my definition of Sports and I will accept your view on the topic
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When exactly will this mixed proleague start? Because I want to watch.
I first want to see, there's like a 1% chance this brings me back into watching games.
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On April 16 2012 19:03 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 19:01 Apex wrote:
I'm going to use the excuse that Mind is slumping/playing horrendously because he's practicing SC2. It's my only source of consolation at this point.
The news that the BW Pros are practicing SC2 is kind of disappointing to hear because it implies that the OSL games coming up won't be as potentially good simply because of the fact that the pros are practicing two games at once now as opposed to one. Oh well, hopefully that's not the case.
if they practice two games. NOT WAY TO HIYA LOSS THIS TIME !!!!!!!!
OH SHIT, YOU HAVE A POINT. HIYA HAS A BIGGER CHANCE THAN I THOUGHT. GOGO MAGIKARP, NOW IS THE CHANCE FOR EVOLUTION.
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On April 16 2012 18:40 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:34 ePLocust wrote:On April 16 2012 18:19 regizer239 wrote:
SC2 has been out for less than 2 years, and as much as I love BW I'm pretty it wasn't so exciting to watch when it first came out. Hell in 10 years people will have the same conversation about SC2 when its dying because of SC3. This for gods sake this. From what I've seen the BW guys were very very quick to judge. I"m not saying they didn't put in time to try and learn the game but rather they're comparing it to the game that has developed out of 10 years of the best rts minds working on strategy's and perfecting their play. It's just not fair to the new game. If SC2 is the best spectator RTS to watch 10 years from now, then I'll watch it then. I hold now grudges against it. Until it IS better, though, why does it need to REPLACE what is better RIGHT NOW? How does my potential enjoyment of SC2 games played 10 years from now relate to games being currently boring?
Because no matter how much you or I like the game there's just more money in starcraft 2 for sponsors and tournaments from what it seems. There just seems to be a much larger foreign presence for sc2 than BW and it seems to be dragging bw down.
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On April 16 2012 19:02 Precipice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:55 unknownGamer wrote:On April 16 2012 18:50 Precipice wrote:On April 16 2012 18:37 unknownGamer wrote:
I don't get why people want to call it E-sports, its like people are trying to mainstream it to be something that is applicable to the norm. Why call it a sport? It just makes you trying hard to be something you are not. Why not be proud of the games you are playing and create a whole new genre, Even the term "gamer" is avoided by "e-sports" people because they don't want to be looked down upon by people who don't play games for a living. Ridiculous. just call it "pro-gaming". Non-pretentious unlike "e-sports" and a signification that you are proud of who you are. A professional gamer.
Back on topic, if it will happen, it will happen. The use of the term does not signify what it, tautologically is, but instead, what we aim for it to be - the place we want it to fulfill. What is a sport? What do you actually gain by suggesting that eSports is not or cannot be one. Your flawed understanding of this issue causes you to critque those who "believe in eSports" as people "[that] don't want to be looked down upon by people who don't play games for a living." Many of us have been involved in this for over 10 years. Many of us are adults with fully established careers and peer groups. We do not need "affirmation" from the theoretical "public at large". To understand what we want you have to understand the nature of sports today. The growth of physical sports in the Western world occured at the exact moment that we saw such things as the culmination of the industrial revolution and progressively fewer places/cultures to carry imperialism out upon. That is, physical sports grew in popularity at the exact moment that we needed to imagine ourselves as warriors - there were no longer places to realistically *be* warriors anymore. In that time, work was done physically. Thus, the sports themselves were physical. As we now move into a second modernity the work that we do is progressively electronic and digital, and at the same time, we still need heroes. We still need warriors. We need people that we can look to who can remind us that all of us, deep down, innately, have the power and potential to do great and incredible things should the time or situation arise. I'll tell you why it's an eSport. These games are eSports because just as physical competitions used to provide inspiration and harbor potential in eras past, so too, now, we as people immersed in computer technology; we as people who take more enjoyment from the mental and dexterous accomplishment of the competitive Starcraft player, find a sense of meaning in what these people can do. It's a sport because in each match is contained the desperate, innate, and personal desire of life. We each as I: I in my quest to survive this world must fight, and if the foe does something I did not expect then the message cannot be that I die; the message is that in the face of unexpected or impossible circumstances I can overcome through creativity, dedication, effort, striving, and will. Starcraft is an eSport because at its very core it is the language which speaks best to us. And what does this language say? Live. My father can have his football, but he understands, too, that I have my Starcraft. This isn't about validation. This is about inspiration. Did you know, korea called it esports because they wanted to make it relevant to the mainstream? There was an article years ago in my country about why the big shots decided to call BW esports, its precisely because they want it to be accepted to the culture mainstream and not shun upon. The name "E-sports" have never been about all the dramatic things you said. Its because they wanted to be respected by others. Clearly you're not understanding the point that bw operates, at a core level, as a sport. It is doing the same things. Just because you think a sport requires a basketball hoop or running laps around the football field does not mean that *that* is what it is. Take a moment to define sports. You have completely failed to explain why Starcraft itself is not a sport. Whereas, by comparison, I have explained why eSports themselves, culturally, *are* the sport of the second modernity (fulfilling the same roles and functions). Just because you think I used hghi-faluting ideas that just ARENT WHAT ITS ABOUT really carries no value. If you'd like I can explain to you how even in archetypal construction eSports are acting out the things I described. The term eSports isn't misleading; it is fitting. If they termed it WORLD CLASS RACQUETBALL, that would be misleading.
I live in korea and I will tell you something that no one tells you before okay? Gamers are shun in korea after that savior incident. I check onegamenet every once in a while ( cant do it now with work) and they call EVERY game esports. Even those mobile games because they want the society to accept them. I don't know what happens in america, but esports is a term that is thrown around in korea just to make it main stream,. if you can't accept that even from a first hand account then I think you need to live in korea and understand what happens when you mention esports. People will roll their eyes at you. I guarantee. Maybe in america there are communities, but people forget, outside communities, people aren't as accepting
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On April 16 2012 18:59 unknownGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:55 the`postman wrote:On April 16 2012 18:37 unknownGamer wrote:
I don't get why people want to call it E-sports, its like people are trying to mainstream it to be something that is applicable to the norm. Why call it a sport? It just makes you trying hard to be something you are not. Why not be proud of the games you are playing and create a whole new genre, Even the term "gamer" is avoided by "e-sports" people because they don't want to be looked down upon by people who don't play games for a living. Ridiculous. just call it "pro-gaming". Non-pretentious unlike "e-sports" and a signification that you are proud of who you are. A professional gamer.
Back on topic, if it will happen, it will happen. And with a huge sponsor like LG sponsoring IM team? I am not surprised. Bw is having problems with sponsorships and if someone like LG is sponsoring a sc2 team instead of a bw team then its a sign that sc2 is the current hot "pro-gaming" game. Seriously? How is e-sports trying to be something it's not? It's most certainly an electronic sport, if you are afraid of the term that's ok but don't try and project your insecurities onto everyone. Because it is not a sport. Ahh fuck it, if you want to think its a sport then go ahead, can't believe I am wasting my time here arguing to people who think I am insecure when they call a game "e-sports" instead of having the balls to call themselves "professional-games."
If golf, racing and poker are considered sports you don't think that video games can be considered sports? Also, tons of people call themselves professional gamers, not sure where you are getting the impression that it is some sort of taboo phrase.
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On April 16 2012 15:14 Keone wrote:
To all you "meh, bound to happen"-types... f* you. BW has been such a huge part of my life, I can't just be apathetic to this.
If they don't keep BW going, the term "ESPORTS" is fundamentally flawed and will never truly exist. You don't just "scrap" a true sport. True sports have one thing in common: great history. Proleague is a part of that enormous and invaluable history that belongs to gaming, and if it trashes BW, then we no longer have esports.
I completely agree! Let me spell if out completely Keone, FUCK YOU!
Ah, this is so horrible. They are sacrificing the only true esports in the name of money. Although I love BW and SC2, I hate the fact that they are willing to throw the better game under the bus just so the other game could have a bigger chunk of the esports market and gain more mileage and money. Worst thing to do really.
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On April 16 2012 18:58 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:31 USvBleakill wrote:
imagine if sc2 would be 12 years old and bw the "new" one. We would have the same discussion. It´s in almost everything what have a "new" part/rule/something that the old guys defending their ground with shitstorms without any knowledge.
Do BW fans really cheer for the game? Or for the players? How many of you would watch games of some random bad bw semi pro´s? Would you say "yea the players are really really bad but BroodWar is sooooo awesome!!!!". I don´t think so.
And please stop blaming blizzard for wanting to make money. It´s a company not a war veterans helping union. Like... all the time? Nearly every week of my bw mates will say hey I got this replay of scan wanna see? And he hosts it and 5 people join and we all watch and laugh. I would do that in SC2 as well except oh wait... we can't fucking host replays. Except we don't say they are bad, we think they are really good still, because A+ iccup players are still 10x better than most GM players. How do I know this, Leenock was one.
Maybe i am missing them but i never heard about "BW Barcrafts". for example. (But yea i would really like this feature on any multiplayer focused game)
and you are comparing A+ iccup with SC2 Grandmaster? You don´t really understand the sc2 laddersystem or?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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