EPTI don't think EG (or any other big team) is as stupid.
Are we killing esports? [part 1] - Page 3
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holzofenbrot
Germany52 Posts
I don't think EG (or any other big team) is as stupid. | ||
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Klipsys
United States1533 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean? Zenio and Hero are very good western players right? | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:10 Eee wrote: Most "code-b" level players that are on foreign teams haven't really got any results either. That's a mute point because they aren't really given a shot to. Still my point remains, it comes down to a lot of things and more often than not the Korean player has more going for it. The Korean results in the West speak volumes. You cannot deny it. They come over here; they win. There is way more opportunity for the Koreans over here. They cannot wait for KeSPA. | ||
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HappyChris
1534 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:31 Hardigan wrote: how is stephano a pure millenium product? Didn't they say that he was the best EU players before he joined Mill??? And how exactly does Mouz support their players better than other Teams? Stephano joined Millinium back in his wc3 days he is a pure millenium product. Millinium really good at making players. Huk,Stephano and now Feast and Diestar.. I dont know what they do but others need to copy this | ||
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BreakfastBurrito
United States894 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean? I don't think he meant it in an especially rude way, although I understand completely how you see that as offensive. Just that many teams are searching for Koreans and it appears to him that there is a stigma against foreigners, simply because they are foreigners. coL just picked up 3 koreans. (and good ones at that) It seems kind of ironic that a team like ZeNEX or TSL is struggling to find support and sponsorship while foreign teams pick up koreans willy nilly. | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:31 Hardigan wrote: how is stephano a pure millenium product? Didn't they say that he was the best EU players before he joined Mill??? And how exactly does Mouz support their players better than other Teams? Stephano is definately a millenium product, well not really since Millenium didn't want to send him overseas before coL tried to recruit him. But Millenium did sign him a month after the game was released. | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:06 Eee wrote: I should edit that, but what I mean is that it is the current trend and majority are not doing it. Now TL is in first hand a community, not a team. If it were to be meant towards I would've made it clear. I haven't really written anything in the post that even hints towards TL, so I dont know why are feeling so hostile about it? Why would you say something so fucked up if you didn't even mean it? You're making even less sense now. TL.net is a community but Liquid obviously has close ties to it. You'll definitely find more Liquid fans at TL.net than anywhere else and more Liquid players posting at TL.net than anywhere else (and more than any other major team at TL.net). In other words, you could well expect that any significant post in the SC2 General section at TL.net is going to be read by Liquid. Now it can hardly be argued that Liquid hasn't invested heavily into non-Korean players. It's just a fact that Liquid went out of its way to get players fully supported and training in Korea ASAP and flying them all around the world to compete in every major tournament. Liquid was the team to pick up and put full support behind TLO after his beta stardom and Huk after his early MLG championship. Liquid supported Jinro Ret and Haypro and myself almost purely off our BW results. All of these players except myself have had amazing results and made significant positive impacts on the scene, except perhaps myself (and when I do, it'll be solely because of Liquid's support). So, we aren't a group of western talent? Were any of us a sure shot? Or could you say that Liquid and The Little App Factory stuck their necks WAY out to support western talent, to develop western talent, and to give western talent a chance to make a huge impact on the scene? And that it was successful? Somehow supporting two great people and players, Hero and Zenio, is supposed to make all that easily ignored? Somehow these acquisitions have reversed our trend despite the fact that we're still giving incredible support to western talent like we have been from day one? You are so absolutely wrong about this that I'm not sure how you could put a single bit of care into your thoughts before you shat them out all over this forum. edit: And just to be complete, Sheth is another great example of investing in western talent. He's had wonderful results since joining Liquid and has been very happy here and getting excellent support. He may even be a better example because at this time that we got him, we very well could have set our sights only on Korean players. But as is abundantly clear to everyone in the world but the OP, Liquid supports western talent. | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:35 Klipsys wrote: Zenio and Hero are very good western players right? Read a fucking logic book. This is embarrassing for you. | ||
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iYiYi
United States489 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:37 BreakfastBurrito wrote: I don't think he meant it in an especially rude way, although I understand completely how you see that as offensive. Just that many teams are searching for Koreans and it appears to him that there is a stigma against foreigners, simply because they are foreigners. coL just picked up 3 koreans. (and good ones at that) It seems kind of ironic that a team like ZeNEX or TSL is struggling to find support and sponsorship while foreign teams pick up koreans willy nilly. TSL has tons of sponsors, aren't they one of the richest Korean teams? They even just moved into a new team house. | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:35 StarStruck wrote: That's a mute point because they aren't really given a shot to. Still my point remains, it comes down to a lot of things and more often than not the Korean player has more going for it. The Korean results in the West speak volumes. You cannot deny it. They come over here; they win. There is way more opportunity for the Koreans over here. They cannot wait for KeSPA. Well that¨'s one of my concernes. I mean, in the same way that inflation in wc3 strangled the european scene might happen in sc2. We might just strangle the korean scene, because they cant keep up (sending players overseas) so their scene will crumble. And the infrastructure that develops the korean talent will be gone. It's a loss situation and not sustainable. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:31 Hardigan wrote: how is stephano a pure millenium product? Didn't they say that he was the best EU players before he joined Mill??? And how exactly does Mouz support their players better than other Teams? No, he wasn't, he was on Millenium way before he became so good. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
The last 2 players TL have picked up are both Korean. I believe all of the latest foreign team player signings have all been Korean. ...TL is still predominantly foreigner and has stuck by its foreigner players. Your argument = bad. | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:43 iYiYi wrote: TSL has tons of sponsors, aren't they one of the richest Korean teams? They even just moved into a new team house. TSL had lots of sponsors last season. EmTek, Western Digital, SkyDigital patches are missing from their new jerseys. The team is basically beeing sustained by Coach Lees pc bang business right now. | ||
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Klipsys
United States1533 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:42 Liquid`NonY wrote: Read a fucking logic book. This is embarrassing for you. Lol okay. Just pointing out that the best players on your team come from Korea.... | ||
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Dominator1370
United States111 Posts
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:41 Liquid`NonY wrote: Why would you say something so fucked up if you didn't even mean it? You're making even less sense now. TL.net is a community but Liquid obviously has close ties to it. You'll definitely find more Liquid fans at TL.net than anywhere else and more Liquid players posting at TL.net than anywhere else (and more than any other major team at TL.net). In other words, you could well expect that any significant post in the SC2 General section at TL.net is going to be read by Liquid. Now it can hardly be argued that Liquid hasn't invested heavily into non-Korean players. It's just a fact that Liquid went out of its way to get players fully supported and training in Korea ASAP and flying them all around the world to compete in every major tournament. Liquid was the team to pick up and put full support behind TLO after his beta stardom and Huk after his early MLG championship. Liquid supported Jinro Ret and Haypro and myself almost purely off our BW results. All of these players except myself have had amazing results and made significant positive impacts on the scene, except perhaps myself (and when I do, it'll be solely because of Liquid's support). So, we aren't a group of western talent? Were any of us a sure shot? Or could you say that Liquid and The Little App Factory stuck their necks WAY out to support western talent, to develop western talent, and to give western talent a chance to make a huge impact on the scene? And that it was successful? Somehow supporting two great people and players, Hero and Zenio, is supposed to make all that easily ignored? Somehow these acquisitions have reversed our trend despite the fact that we're still giving incredible support to western talent like we have been from day one? You are so absolutely wrong about this that I'm not sure how you could put a single bit of care into your thoughts before you shat them out all over this forum. edit: And just to be complete, Sheth is another great example of investing in western talent. He's had wonderful results since joining Liquid and has been very happy here and getting excellent support. He may even be a better example because at this time that we got him, we very well could have set our sights only on Korean players. But as is abundantly clear to everyone in the world but the OP, Liquid supports western talent. LOL, seriously. I just said this wasn't even meant to be against TL why are you even arguing? NOTHING in this post implies anything about TL, so I dont even understand why you are trying to prove anything. I 90% agree with you, I'm not pointing fingers at TL. And by western talent I mean people like Bly (who just got picked up by Acer) and BiGs (who got picked up by mouz some months ago) who are online warriors but haven't ever been given the chance to play at offline events and fulltime. TL mosly consists of people who had some previous history from bw (like Haypro, Ret and you). | ||
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Klipsys
United States1533 Posts
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schimmetje
Netherlands1104 Posts
Just throwing money at foreign players isn't going to make them better either. Good practice partners, obtained either through acquiring them, working together with other teams or whatever is a needed investment as well. Also, I can't name a single foreign team that's dominated by Koreans and I can name a lot of recent foreign transfers. Whether the teams in question can support all those I don't know, it's definitely something they should be mindful of, but the problem there is not "not investing in foreign talent". | ||
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Beastyqt
Serbia516 Posts
At the start of SC2 many teams were recruiting talents because there were not many known players and there were no Koreans signing for foreigner teams which is why there are so many "developed talents" now. In Team Empire Kas, Happy and me were all signed when we were unknowns and before we started winning online tournaments because at the time you didnt have that many known players to pick from, they gave us the chance and it was worth it. Now we have 3 players that constantly ladder and we can see if there are some promising players and if there are we recruit them, give them a 1-3month trial and see if they are able to fit in team or not. Team Empire gave trial chance to couple of people and they didnt show good results and now we are playing 4-5 team leagues that are important for us and most of team leagues require 4x1v1 players, we cant wait the 4th player forever to come from "talent player pool" we needed a 4th player to complete our ""all-star"" lineup so we are able to win team leagues which is why we recruited Violet. We are always looking for new players that are yet "undiscovered", but at same time you have to understand that those players are very hard to find and even if you do find them they are 6+ month investment. I dont agree on some teams buying 3-4 Koreans just to carry them in team leagues and replace all the foreigners and eventually kick foreigners from team which we already saw before couple of times happen. But again its their choice and even tho its bad for foreigner community in general, if foreigners want that place they have to practise harder. | ||
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