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Foreign teams don't prefer Koreans because of peer pressure. They prefer them because they are much better, on average. I'm sure most teams would prefer players who speak good English and interact with the fans regularly. If a Korean and a foreigner show the same level of talent, dedication and work ethic the foreigner will get the contract almost every single time.
It's just that even second or third tier Koreans show more dedication and consistent hard work than even some of the best foreigners. How many times have we heard top foreigners admit that they kind of slacked off in the last few month. Idra said that one of the great things about returning to Korea was that he could focus on practice again.
In the end the best players will get invited (or qualify for) the biggest events. Big events bring exposure and prestige for the team and ultimately sponsorship money. The teams literally don't have a choice. Going for second tier foreigners who don't show clear promise is suicide.
I don't want to be critical with foreign players. Obviously being in the top 0.005% in North America is a huge achievement. But it just happens that on average the same amount of money seems to buy much more talent in Korea than anywhere else in the world.
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On March 03 2012 23:26 Eee wrote:
So basically I’m going to start posting a series of blog posts about esports [...]
So why not post it in blogs?
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On March 04 2012 01:25 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:26 Eee wrote:
So basically I’m going to start posting a series of blog posts about esports [...] So why not post it in blogs?
he didn't know how, he already addressed that. give him a break
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On March 04 2012 01:25 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:26 Eee wrote:
So basically I’m going to start posting a series of blog posts about esports [...] So why not post it in blogs?
Check the line at the end of the OP:
Edit: looks like I cant make blog posts, do you have to be a member for a whole year first? :O
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On March 04 2012 01:23 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 01:19 lowreezy08 wrote:On March 04 2012 00:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:On March 04 2012 00:06 Eee wrote:On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: no one is willing to invest in the talent that is available in the western scene This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean? I should edit that, but what I mean is that it is the current trend and majority are not doing it. Now TL is in first hand a community, not a team. If it were to be meant towards I would've made it clear. I haven't really written anything in the post that even hints towards TL, so I dont know why are feeling so hostile about it? Why would you say something so fucked up if you didn't even mean it? You're making even less sense now. TL.net is a community but Liquid obviously has close ties to it. You'll definitely find more Liquid fans at TL.net than anywhere else and more Liquid players posting at TL.net than anywhere else (and more than any other major team at TL.net). In other words, you could well expect that any significant post in the SC2 General section at TL.net is going to be read by Liquid. Now it can hardly be argued that Liquid hasn't invested heavily into non-Korean players. It's just a fact that Liquid went out of its way to get players fully supported and training in Korea ASAP and flying them all around the world to compete in every major tournament. Liquid was the team to pick up and put full support behind TLO after his beta stardom and Huk after his early MLG championship. Liquid supported Jinro Ret and Haypro and myself almost purely off our BW results. All of these players except myself have had amazing results and made significant positive impacts on the scene, except perhaps myself (and when I do, it'll be solely because of Liquid's support). So, we aren't a group of western talent? Were any of us a sure shot? Or could you say that Liquid and The Little App Factory stuck their necks WAY out to support western talent, to develop western talent, and to give western talent a chance to make a huge impact on the scene? And that it was successful? Somehow supporting two great people and players, Hero and Zenio, is supposed to make all that easily ignored? Somehow these acquisitions have reversed our trend despite the fact that we're still giving incredible support to western talent like we have been from day one? You are so absolutely wrong about this that I'm not sure how you could put a single bit of care into your thoughts before you shat them out all over this forum. edit: And just to be complete, Sheth is another great example of investing in western talent. He's had wonderful results since joining Liquid and has been very happy here and getting excellent support. He may even be a better example because at this time that we got him, we very well could have set our sights only on Korean players. But as is abundantly clear to everyone in the world but the OP, Liquid supports western talent. You should spend less time on the forums and more time practicing, "When I do make a significant impact on the scene" first you should stop worrying about what other people say when they're just generalizing, second you have to actually accomplish something and ever since sc2 came out, you surely haven't done any justice. I would love for you to prove me wrong, but I doubt that you will do anything special this year based off previous tournaments and practice dedication. I don't consider Tyler a Liquid player anymore, more of a community figure we see whenever SOTG is on. Although we don't know what he does behind the scenes for Liquid.
You're fucking ridiculous, if you disagree with what he say then make an argument. His abilities as a player got nothing to do with this thread. Btw, you're ugly.
User was warned for this post
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On March 04 2012 01:19 lowreezy08 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:On March 04 2012 00:06 Eee wrote:On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: no one is willing to invest in the talent that is available in the western scene This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean? I should edit that, but what I mean is that it is the current trend and majority are not doing it. Now TL is in first hand a community, not a team. If it were to be meant towards I would've made it clear. I haven't really written anything in the post that even hints towards TL, so I dont know why are feeling so hostile about it? Why would you say something so fucked up if you didn't even mean it? You're making even less sense now. TL.net is a community but Liquid obviously has close ties to it. You'll definitely find more Liquid fans at TL.net than anywhere else and more Liquid players posting at TL.net than anywhere else (and more than any other major team at TL.net). In other words, you could well expect that any significant post in the SC2 General section at TL.net is going to be read by Liquid. Now it can hardly be argued that Liquid hasn't invested heavily into non-Korean players. It's just a fact that Liquid went out of its way to get players fully supported and training in Korea ASAP and flying them all around the world to compete in every major tournament. Liquid was the team to pick up and put full support behind TLO after his beta stardom and Huk after his early MLG championship. Liquid supported Jinro Ret and Haypro and myself almost purely off our BW results. All of these players except myself have had amazing results and made significant positive impacts on the scene, except perhaps myself (and when I do, it'll be solely because of Liquid's support). So, we aren't a group of western talent? Were any of us a sure shot? Or could you say that Liquid and The Little App Factory stuck their necks WAY out to support western talent, to develop western talent, and to give western talent a chance to make a huge impact on the scene? And that it was successful? Somehow supporting two great people and players, Hero and Zenio, is supposed to make all that easily ignored? Somehow these acquisitions have reversed our trend despite the fact that we're still giving incredible support to western talent like we have been from day one? You are so absolutely wrong about this that I'm not sure how you could put a single bit of care into your thoughts before you shat them out all over this forum. edit: And just to be complete, Sheth is another great example of investing in western talent. He's had wonderful results since joining Liquid and has been very happy here and getting excellent support. He may even be a better example because at this time that we got him, we very well could have set our sights only on Korean players. But as is abundantly clear to everyone in the world but the OP, Liquid supports western talent. You should spend less time on the forums and more time practicing, "When I do make a significant impact on the scene" first you should stop worrying about what other people say when they're just generalizing, second you have to actually accomplish something and ever since sc2 came out, you surely haven't done any justice. I would love for you to prove me wrong, but I doubt that you will do anything special this year based off previous tournaments and practice dedication.
Lol, since when did this become about how good Tyler is ? Keep your pointless ad hominem attacks to yourself please.
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We need to understand that in order to compete with the koreans , we must give 8 year old kids a pc with SC2 so they can kick Flash "ass" in a few years .. =P
i think that foreigners are much better now than in Open seasons GSL , we now see a lot of foreigners capable of winning against koreans !
There is always catching up to do , but we are much better now than we were 2 years ago!
Stephano , sheeth , huk , Ret , naniwa , kas and so many more ... all these guys are can play against koreans and win , you people want Bonjwas .
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What the hell at all the Tyler hate in here ? Tyler is way above Axslav.
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It doesnt matter how good Tyler is, but the way he jumped on this guy is ridiculous and not how a liquid member should behave imo.
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On March 04 2012 00:50 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:41 Liquid`NonY wrote:On March 04 2012 00:06 Eee wrote:On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: no one is willing to invest in the talent that is available in the western scene This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean? I should edit that, but what I mean is that it is the current trend and majority are not doing it. Now TL is in first hand a community, not a team. If it were to be meant towards I would've made it clear. I haven't really written anything in the post that even hints towards TL, so I dont know why are feeling so hostile about it? Why would you say something so fucked up if you didn't even mean it? You're making even less sense now. TL.net is a community but Liquid obviously has close ties to it. You'll definitely find more Liquid fans at TL.net than anywhere else and more Liquid players posting at TL.net than anywhere else (and more than any other major team at TL.net). In other words, you could well expect that any significant post in the SC2 General section at TL.net is going to be read by Liquid. Now it can hardly be argued that Liquid hasn't invested heavily into non-Korean players. It's just a fact that Liquid went out of its way to get players fully supported and training in Korea ASAP and flying them all around the world to compete in every major tournament. Liquid was the team to pick up and put full support behind TLO after his beta stardom and Huk after his early MLG championship. Liquid supported Jinro Ret and Haypro and myself almost purely off our BW results. All of these players except myself have had amazing results and made significant positive impacts on the scene, except perhaps myself (and when I do, it'll be solely because of Liquid's support). So, we aren't a group of western talent? Were any of us a sure shot? Or could you say that Liquid and The Little App Factory stuck their necks WAY out to support western talent, to develop western talent, and to give western talent a chance to make a huge impact on the scene? And that it was successful? Somehow supporting two great people and players, Hero and Zenio, is supposed to make all that easily ignored? Somehow these acquisitions have reversed our trend despite the fact that we're still giving incredible support to western talent like we have been from day one? You are so absolutely wrong about this that I'm not sure how you could put a single bit of care into your thoughts before you shat them out all over this forum. edit: And just to be complete, Sheth is another great example of investing in western talent. He's had wonderful results since joining Liquid and has been very happy here and getting excellent support. He may even be a better example because at this time that we got him, we very well could have set our sights only on Korean players. But as is abundantly clear to everyone in the world but the OP, Liquid supports western talent. LOL, seriously. I just said this wasn't even meant to be against TL why are you even arguing? NOTHING in this post implies anything about TL, so I dont even understand why you are trying to prove anything. I 90% agree with you, I'm not pointing fingers at TL. And by western talent I mean people like Bly (who just got picked up by Acer) and BiGs (who got picked up by mouz some months ago) who are online warriors but haven't ever been given the chance to play at offline events and fulltime. TL mosly consists of people who had some previous history from bw (like Haypro, Ret and you).
Since players like Bly and BiGs do get picked up like you say, where's the problem?
Beastyqt's post was pretty interesting btw.
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On March 04 2012 01:33 mdb wrote:
It doesnt matter how good Tyler is, but the way he jumped on this guy is ridiculous and not how a liquid member should behave imo.
he shouldn't defend his team when he believes someone slanders it?
ffs, pros are going to stop posting on the forums because of people like you. is there a standard for how they should post? can they not have opinions? this isn't sundance completely shitting on ipl. it's a player defending his team.
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On March 04 2012 01:33 mdb wrote:
It doesnt matter how good Tyler is, but the way he jumped on this guy is ridiculous and not how a liquid member should behave imo.
Although I agree that Tyler overreacted, I am pretty sure TL players are not on a PR leash and can say whatever the hell they want. ( Actually I KNOW that from following Jinro's posts ) Just because they are pro players does not mean they don't get an opinion and the right to discuss it in public.
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The problem with esports is that people want to mimic sports events, but esports have a fraction of the viewers. That's just not going to work long term.
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we (north americans) are irrelevant to eSports ... Blizzard's focus for eSports growth is China and South Korea... if those two countries happen to drag North America along then its just a bonus.
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I think a main reason for teams wanting to sign korean players is because people want to watch the best games. I for one, don't care if I'm watching European, American, or Korean players. I want to watch the best and at this point, objectively that's the Korean players. I'm not going to single out any players, but if the best of the best for foreigners can't make it in the GSL (players that have won many foreign tourneys) then why are we even mentioning foreigners who haven't won tourneys in the same breath as Korean Code B players (a lot of whom have qualified for GSL at some point and not just given a seed) No foreigner has ever made it through the Code A Prelims. Obviously Koreans are not inherently better by race, so the only conclusion to draw is that either a.) Foreigners don't practice as hard as Koreans (probably true on average) or b.) For the foreigners that are practicing as much or as hard, that their practice methods are inferior to Koreans or rather, that if the Koreans all practice hard and a lot, then they will be better and hence have better practice partners.
Edit: Without finding why Korean players are better, then foreigners will always be complaining that they aren't getting the support they need, when simply put they aren't as good as Koreans. Maybe foreigners should spend more time trying to find out why the Koreans are so good and what they can do to perform at the same level.
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On March 04 2012 01:10 ArcticRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:57 Shiori wrote:
Liquid supports western talent. Not going to argue that. This whole thread is stupid, though, because teams should support the best players, and I can't think of more than 10 who are realistic contenders of getting into Code A/S. That's not the counter-argument to OP's problem. It's the consequence. Why isn't there more foreign good players ? Because most foreign teams are beginning to invest less and less into foreign players. Edit : orthography.
That excuse it too easy in my regard, because you can say that regardless how many good foreign players are on the scene.
Overall, I think the problem lies in the meager competitive playerbase outside of Korea, so the few outstanding players that it yields are inferior to the players that stand out in the Korean playerbase, who are picked up by the Korean teams for even further training.
Is throwing more money at the playerbase a solution to this? Of course it is, but what problem in our world cannot be solved by throwing more money at it? I think there should be some other good solution for the foreign dilemma, but currently I have no clue what.
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On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote + no one is willing to invest in the talent that is available in the western scene This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean?
I don't think he was targeting this at Liquid in particular, and it is definitely not an insult. He does make a valid point, that major foreign teams are not really signing that many foreigners anymore.
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"...killing esports?" is killing esports.
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On March 04 2012 01:43 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: no one is willing to invest in the talent that is available in the western scene This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean? I don't think he was targeting this at Liquid in particular, and it is definitely not an insult. But when is the last time TL signed a foreign player? 2010? He does make a valid point, that major foreign teams are not really signing that many foreigners anymore.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=248886
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On March 04 2012 01:43 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: no one is willing to invest in the talent that is available in the western scene This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean? I don't think he was targeting this at Liquid in particular, and it is definitely not an insult. But when is the last time TL signed a foreign player? 2010? He does make a valid point, that major foreign teams are not really signing that many foreigners anymore.
July 2011 as a matter of fact.
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EPT
