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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On March 04 2012 01:43 hyptonic wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=248886 Oh god can't believe I forgot. Edited my post, and sorry for the misinformation. That being said, I think we shouldn't look only at Liquid and at the scene as aggregate. This is an issue that is important, as it helps sustain the foreign scene. | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On March 04 2012 01:33 WhiteDog wrote: What the hell at all the Tyler hate in here ? Tyler is way above Axslav. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Winter/North_America This article made some pretty massive statements, and it's all well and good to go and correct / clarify them later but it devalues your entire post. As is listing a bunch of sources without a few clicks to find out how to make a blog post. | ||
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AnalThermometer
Vatican City State334 Posts
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
On March 04 2012 01:35 7mk wrote: Since players like Bly and BiGs do get picked up like you say, where's the problem? Beastyqt's post was pretty interesting btw. Those are the examples of teams doing it right, but majority are following the korean hype especially the big organisations. SK tried to develop young talent but ended up kicking the whole team some months later, NaVi did it for a bit longer but they also got rid of the whole team. The big organisations are pretty much "role models" for the lesser organisations, and looking at the big organisations right now, none of them have really tried to grow there own talent, Complexity is a exception though. Although they have 3 koreans on their team, and they also sponsor a korean team, they are in fact running their Col.Academy thing and have given the chance to players like Gosuser and Trimaster. But there's really no team besides a few european and coL who are doing this. And even coL seems to be abondoning this idea. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
Korea is to stacraft what USA is with basketball and Brasil with football, the powerhouse country that export talent. There is almost no european basketball team without a usa player and there are almost no team in european football with zero brasilians, many have 3 or more.. so yeah it's unfortunate. The thing is they(Koreans) want to come, because "we" have more money to support their biggers numbers and better quality. It happens in all sports and will carry on like that if people don't change anything. Will it kill esports? I don't know but atleast for me i don't have to see all tournaments with 50% Koreans or 80% Koreans, because for that I have GSL. Even if a noname codeB is better then tyler or Axslav, the storys&rivalries will make more sense and bring better emotion in wins/losses. In my opinion if people want to improve the western scene versus the Koreans, event organizers must do a GSL type of thing where you have a season and only people in that region (Korean for GSL) can participate. Korean players like Real or Violet that commit to that change should be welcomed of course. It's not fair that you have to sacrifice so much to attend GSL and the Koreans just need to come (deal with jetlag of course), win or lose and go back home, wasting a couple of days. Nowadays it seems like the korean teams won't even have to pay for the cost of coming to us, while we have to pay for our players to stay there for months and wait for chances to qualify or have a seed for code A or S. Many many things are wrong with this "eSport" time will tell if the people in charge made the right choices.. | ||
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Demicore
France503 Posts
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
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Coated
United States74 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:32 zezamer wrote: Would you rather sponsor a korean kid who sees sc2 as his job and lives in a team house or a kinda good foreign player who goes to uni and plays some sc2 when he has time. ? Pretty much this. Esports and professional gaming is far more accepted in Korea than it is in the foreign scene. Even if there were up and coming SC2 foreigners with that kind of mindset (Practice for 12 hours a day, etc), it would be hard to justify that kind of exsistence for a chance at scraps? You can see that from Stephano, a player who only practices 3-4 hours a day and fully acknowledges that SC2 is not his future. He says this because playing SC2 and investing 12 hours a day to have a 'CHANCE' at becoming good is a fools errand. You could invest 12 hours a day in practically any other profession and be much more secure in your future. Let's not forget that the Esports scene is incredibly volatile. At any minute the scene could die and the game you invested so much time in is now being replaced by new games. Games that are going to require even more hours invested (12+ hour days). I really admire SC2 professional players who are whilling to sacrifice so much for practically nothing. Only a very small percentage actually make it 'worth' their while to follow this path. A path that really is quite foolish to follow in the end, IMO. | ||
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eoLithic
Norway221 Posts
They are nowhere near code B material, end. OT: Money rules. | ||
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Nortac
United States375 Posts
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
On March 04 2012 02:03 shell wrote: And you think EG doesn't support western players? They had a BW team you know? Before SC2 was out they allready had machine, idra, incontrol etc. and they setup a western practice house so yeah they do invest in western esports. They did. They don't anymore as to what we see (Axslav, Puma, JYP) In my opinion if people want to improve the western scene versus the Koreans, event organizers must do a GSL type of thing where you have a season and only people in that region (Korean for GSL) can participate. Korean players like Real or Violet that commit to that change should be welcomed of course. Oh but foreigners can qualify for Code S. They just don't want or succeed at it. I'm tired of all these "killing e-sports" threads, if people enjoy it enough and there is a big enough fan base it will grow and you will not be able to "kill" it. People need to understand that if you want to enjoy the content then pay for it, if you don't buy it because you don't want to watch it doesn't mean you are killing e-sports. If the product is good enough and the demand is there it will not die or be able to be "killed". The problem OP raises precisely concerns the fan base. How many fans will be left when there'll be only Koreans in the scene ? Well, Millenium and Mouz fans, you could say  | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
On March 04 2012 02:18 Aunvilgod wrote: After the recent MLG I think the skill gap is closing. I am not worried at all. What makes you say that? People have been saying this for the last year. All I see is the gap widening. | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
Beastyqt posted something very valid, stating that korean mercs on a foreigner team will give them short (maybe even longer) term succes, when it comes to leaguewins. But it is highly doubtful that a majority ofthe foreigner fanbase will be as emotional involved as if a foreigner manages to beat some big names. And the more emotional involved the fans are the better for the Team, merchandise sales and their sponsors. I think the right balance is important. 4Kings back in WC3 was my absolute favorite team. Grubby, ToD and Creo were not better then SK, WE or MYM (they all had lot`s of asians in their roster), but they were on the same level and always able to beat every other team. If that happened the scene went fucking nuts and this moved way more fans then a victory of an Asian mercteam. personal edit: Besides all I said, I also was a Fan of Lyn, Fly100%, TH000, Remind, Moon, Lucifer, TeD and others ^______________^ | ||
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ETisME
12912 Posts
Foreign teams are picking up some code B korean players because those players are already pretty solid and also seeking ways to get well-known. I can't remember any koreans that joined a foreign team and isn't a core member for their respective team and doing poorly. Even if players like JYP is underperforming a bit (for a Code A/S) but he is still a really good player and took out a few good players. The western scene lacks up and rising players like them, (the only one I can think of is stephano and maybe goswer), the rest are mostly solid, established players such as Dimaga and White-ra. The only ones that would get picked up are either those who have a special relationship with the team, or someone who brings lots of values into the community, or just a really good player that can produce results. Investing however, is super risky. Just think of the ratio of how many talents were recruited and how many produced good results. | ||
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Roxor9999
Netherlands771 Posts
On March 04 2012 01:33 WhiteDog wrote: What the hell at all the Tyler hate in here ? Tyler is way above Axslav. I think you need to start watching some more recent tournaments, and stop rewatching tournaments from 2010. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
eSports is more than SC2, anyways. We might be killing global eSports, but if Korea doesn't get eaten by the LoL fad, I'm sure they'll be able to sustain a respectable SC2 scene (especially if BW players switch over with their fanbases), just like it's sustaining their BW scene and China is sustaining their War3 scene. To clarify, I don't think the eSports scene as a whole will ever truly stabilize in the true sense of the word, in that games will always die and newer titles will come up to take their place. Some fans will drop out, some fans will stay for their old game, some will switch, and there will be a new bubble, but I doubt it will ever reach a happy equilibrium. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On March 04 2012 02:18 Aunvilgod wrote: After the recent MLG I think the skill gap is closing. I am not worried at all. But it is the same foreigners at the top, while there are more and more rising Koreans. We need more Thorzain at TSL3 moments. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On March 04 2012 00:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: This is a slap in the face to Liquid. Why you would post this at teamliquid.net I cannot fathom. Really dumb or just really mean? Uh... where do you think HerO and Zenio came from? Yea, OGS-TL are partnered but no one would argue that the 2 Koreans are spearheading TL now. I completely agree with the OP, it's a little disappointing to see the bigger foreign teams looking purely to Korean talent instead of developing foreign players. | ||
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krisss
Luxembourg305 Posts
How do u notice talents in sc2 anyways? I got no clue. Well, ofc, when sb is winning like stephano did, he sure got talent. But how do u discover talent, that needs to be forged into a star? I football, and other sports, there are coaches, teammates, etc etc, a lot of people following the "way" of a career, and they can judge, based on what they saw during the time, that somebody got talent. IMHO this is way more complicated in Starcraft. You can judge how a player performs when you see him, but there is no "noticable evolution" if you dont follow every step of a player. I think for organizations (which wants at least some future results) its SO HARD to discover talent. Tyler even said TL.net took players like him Haypro and ret based on their BW performances. Then they took HuK and TLO, 2 of the best early SC2 players. Considering this, TL never aquired an "unknown", which shows how hard its for a team to look for "talent". | ||
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