EPTSchool Shooting in Ohio - 3 Dead, 2 Injured - Page 18
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As always, with topics as complex and sensitive as these, please take a minute to think before you post. If this thread is to stay open the following must be avoided: - Disrespect to any of the parties involved (be it the bullies or bullied) The above includes: - Justifying or glorifying death or suicide as deserved - Disregarding or belittling the circumstances that give rise to these situations There's a reason why these discussions are always so sensitive. There are extremes on either side of the discussion that are disrespectful and narrow-minded in their own ways; the best approach is to carefully consider the other side before posting Warnings and bans will be handed out for unreasoned and insensitive statements. | ||
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Heff87
United States106 Posts
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2012/02/28/savidge-school-shooting.cnn | ||
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ruffstyle89
41 Posts
http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/index.ssf/2012/02/chardon_shooting_victim_russel.html | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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pRo9aMeR
595 Posts
As a teacher, I know that if someone ever comes to me with a problem, specifically a problem with another student bullying them, I try to give equal attention to both in the form of support, positive reinforcement, and empathy. Some people here don't quite understand that BOTH parties, shooter and bullies, had problems much deeper than what was shown on the surface. It is easier to understand what the shooter may have experienced, but it seems more difficult for some people to understand that the bullies had their own set of issues as well. Both needed help long before this happened, but apparently because of this "just ignore them" unspoken policy that many schools have on bullying, this conclusion seems all but inevitable in our current society. I really don't want to get into all the other factors that contributed to this as they might derail this thread. This being said, I have one honest question minutely related... How in the world do you pronounce the name of the county where this took place in? It's spelled "Geauga" but the sound eludes me... What does it sound like? What's the phonetic spelling? | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:11 ruffstyle89 wrote: This is the guy who died. Was just a young kid who worked and seemed pretty nice. Hardly the 'bully' type that I expected. Wasn't invovled in sports or any sort of jock. I'm not sure if this was posted, but maybe seeing him will change your judgement on if this guy really seems like some bully who pushed a kid over the edge. http://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/index.ssf/2012/02/chardon_shooting_victim_russel.html Why do you associate sports with bullying? That's inappropriate. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:15 pRo9aMeR wrote: How in the world do you pronounce the name of the county where this took place in? It's spelled "Geauga" but the sound eludes me... What does it sound like? What's the phonetic spelling? Gee-aww-guh | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
Bullying is being taken very seriously, but there is a limit to the powers of schools, etc. Kids have to be raised from an early age to NOT be bullies, to stand up for friends, and to be strong in the face of adversity. | ||
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honkeybeef
United States143 Posts
On February 28 2012 11:40 Abort Retry Fail wrote: This is a really simple problem, and one that could have been avoided easily IF THERE IS A TOTAL BAN ON GUNS. I'm sorry to be very definite about it, but there is no other way or justification around gun ownership. What if you own your own house and have a family and kids and someone breaks into your house during the night? Protection is perfectly justified and legal. I have the right to protect my family in my own home and I will not think twice about shooting someone breaking in to my house to cause my family harm. The problem is not allowing ownership of weapons. The problem is that some people are not mentally "sound" (for lack of better word) and bring a gun to school because someone made them feel bad. Yes bullying is a HUGE problem. No, banning guns is not the solution. Period. Says my constitutional rights. | ||
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On February 28 2012 12:30 OuchyDathurts wrote: What if he didn't trust his parents? Dad's a drunk, mom works 3 jobs, abuse, etc. Does anyone think their school counselor actually gives a shit about them? There's a lot of possible scenarios. No one knows what was going on in his head exactly except him. Until all the details come out we won't know. Maybe he's a raving undiagnosed psychopath, who knows. But If I look at the situation I'd say the most likely thing is he felt (whether justified or not) he had no one he could trust so it spiraled into this. Yeah, you can kill someone with pretty much anything, but a screwdriver is going to take a hell of a lot more effort than a gun. Just sayin =P He could have walked up behind the other kid and stabbed him in the neck. That probably would have done the job. Saying "This wouldn't have happened if guns were banned" is total bs. Actually I think my school counselor (We have 5 of them, btw) is a really cool guy and I'm sure as hell that a school counselor is going to give a shit about the students that they counsel. That's their JOB. That's basically the whole idea of a school counselor, so that students will always have an adult that they can trust and talk too. In a way you're sort of right. This thread looks like a bunch of people trying to come up with tons of excuses to justify murder. (He's being bullied, crappy parents, growing up in bad environment, etc) Here's the pictures that the kid posted on the internet: http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//98/07/98074c9d3fc9cbd7c831f5978fcf15b9.jpg On the note he even posted the date, 2-26-12 ... Kid looks crazy. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:43 honkeybeef wrote: If guns were banned then the person breaking in your house wouldn't have a gun either. The rest is easy, just knock him the fuck out with a graceful hook to the chin.What if you own your own house and have a family and kids and someone breaks into your house during the night? Protection is perfectly justified and legal. I have the right to protect my family in my own home and I will not think twice about shooting someone breaking in to my house to cause my family harm. The problem is not allowing ownership of weapons. The problem is that some people are not mentally "sound" (for lack of better word) and bring a gun to school because someone made them feel bad. Yes bullying is a HUGE problem. No, banning guns is not the solution. Period. Says my constitutional rights. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:44 PaqMan wrote: First of all, although a gun isn't necessary to kill a person, you have to admit the total causality would be much lower without a gun. Fucking with a guy who has a gun in his hand is much harder then a screw driver lol.He could have walked up behind the other kid and stabbed him in the neck. That probably would have done the job. Saying "This wouldn't have happened if guns were banned" is total bs. Actually I think my school counselor (We have 5 of them, btw) is a really cool guy and I'm sure as hell that a school counselor is going to give a shit about the students that they counsel. That's their JOB. That's basically the whole idea of a school counselor, so that students will always have an adult that they can trust and talk too. In a way you're sort of right. This thread looks like a bunch of people trying to come up with tons of excuses to justify murder. (He's being bullied, crappy parents, growing up in bad environment, etc) Here's the pictures that the kid posted on the internet: http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//98/07/98074c9d3fc9cbd7c831f5978fcf15b9.jpg On the note he even posted the date, 2-26-12 ... Kid looks crazy. Secondly, I totally understand what your saying about school and their job to help but sadly you'd be surprised how often they turn a blind eye in these bully scenarios and don't help, happens all the time. | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:45 Kamais Ookin wrote: If guns were banned then the person breaking in your house wouldn't have a gun either. The rest is easy, just knock him the fuck out with a graceful hook to the chin. The argument against banning guns is that it hurts lawful citizens, as people who really want a gun will get their hands on a gun through some illegal method. You cannot really counter a gun without another gun, unfortunately. Whether or not you agree with it is up to your own judgement. | ||
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honkeybeef
United States143 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:45 Kamais Ookin wrote: If guns were banned then the person breaking in your house wouldn't have a gun either. The rest is easy, just knock him the fuck out with a graceful hook to the chin. And if he is much larger than you? What if he has a knife? I'm sorry but when someone breaks in (looking to harm me and my family or not) I refuse to take any chances with my family's well being. If I felt I had the jump on him I would tell him to freeze, say I have a gun, and to lay face down while the cops arrived or I would shoot him. To often does something look like a "fist fight" and end up being a stabbing or shooting. I have been in martial arts many years and I would still never risk a fight with my fists if I had another option. I lost a close-ish friend from martial arts when his brother got into a bar fight, confident because they were MMA fighters, and someone pulled a knife and stabbed him when he was walking away. Never take risks, never fight if you dont have to. Its NEVER worth risking your life over. Running is almost always the better choice. | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:14 Endymion wrote:by the way, how come it's always guys shooting up schools and not girls.. girls have it way worse in the bullying area, they're tormented from every direction.. Probably because the second half of your statement is false. It is socially acceptable for both boys and girls to bully boys; it is only socially acceptable for girls to bully girls. Boy-on-girl bullying is relatively rare and more likely to be punished. Further, it is only socially acceptable to violently bully boys; it is not socially acceptable to beat up girls. Victims of bully violence are overwhelmingly male, and action is far more likely to be taken by authorities when girls are beat up than vice versa. Additionally, males tend to vary more in social status than females do; the people at both the very top and bottom of the social ladder tend to be males, which means that the targets of bullying (people on the bottom) will also tend to be male. Finally, our gender norms generally expect boys to stand up for themselves, and those who do not receive little support and are considered unmasculine. Girls, on the other hand, are expected to seek help and generally do so, without any social disapproval when they do so. | ||
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PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:50 Kamais Ookin wrote: First of all, although a gun isn't necessary to kill a person, you have to admit the total causality would be much lower without a gun. Fucking with a guy who has a gun in his hand is much harder then a screw driver lol. Secondly, I totally understand what your saying about school and their job to help but sadly you'd be surprised how often they turn a blind eye in these bully scenarios and don't help, happens all the time. Do you know how much work you have to do to be qualified and eligible to work as a school counselor? All of those thesis' and 20-page essays and shit that you have to write. They don't just hire any retard that walks in. Turn a blind eye? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to say that it's possible the kid asked his counselor for help, and was denied? And if he was soooo sick-and-tired of getting bullied, why didn't he just sucker-punch that kid in the face like any normal teenage boy would do? What I'm saying is that there is absolutely no justifiable reason for that kid to post the pictures, make the threats, bring a gun to school, and open fire on 5 kids. He didn't do all of that because he was getting "bullied". I think he deserves the max punishment possible. He definitely needs a psychological evaluation. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:56 sunprince wrote: Probably because the second half of your statement is false. It is socially acceptable for both boys and girls to bully boys; it is only socially acceptable for girls to bully girls. Boy-on-girl bullying is relatively rare and more likely to be punished. Further, it is only socially acceptable to violently bully boys; it is not socially acceptable to beat up girls. Victims of bully violence are overwhelmingly male, and action is far more likely to be taken by authorities when girls are beat up than vice versa. Additionally, males tend to vary more in social status than females do; the people at both the very top and bottom of the social ladder tend to be males, which means that the targets of bullying (people on the bottom) will also tend to be male. Finally, our gender norms generally expect boys to stand up for themselves, and those who do not receive little support and are considered unmasculine. Girls, on the other hand, are expected to seek help and generally do so, without any social disapproval when they do so. They generally seek help and get just as much (little) as boys do. The rate of boy on boy harm from bullying retaliation is nowhere near the rate of female suicide from social pressure. | ||
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Graviton
Australia146 Posts
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On February 28 2012 13:44 PaqMan wrote: He could have walked up behind the other kid and stabbed him in the neck. That probably would have done the job. Saying "This wouldn't have happened if guns were banned" is total bs. Actually I think my school counselor (We have 5 of them, btw) is a really cool guy and I'm sure as hell that a school counselor is going to give a shit about the students that they counsel. That's their JOB. That's basically the whole idea of a school counselor, so that students will always have an adult that they can trust and talk too. In a way you're sort of right. This thread looks like a bunch of people trying to come up with tons of excuses to justify murder. (He's being bullied, crappy parents, growing up in bad environment, etc) Here's the pictures that the kid posted on the internet: http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//98/07/98074c9d3fc9cbd7c831f5978fcf15b9.jpg On the note he even posted the date, 2-26-12 ... Kid looks crazy. We had multiple school counselors too. But they were broken down into alphabetical order. One counselor got A-whatever students, and so on. I know for certain fact my school counselor was an aloof whack job. Not to mention certainly pushing 70 years old. I wouldn't have put any faith in confiding in her at all under any circumstances. If I would have had to confide in someone luckily there was a teacher most students had at one point during their high school lives, that was regarded by basically everyone as being the best teacher they've ever had. I'm sure if someone had some deep, dark shit to talk about he'd be there for them. You might, maybe kill someone with a screwdriver if you snuck up behind them, maybe. Even if you lucked out (or were some covert ninja) and killed one person. End of crime spree. You got 1 and now everyone is either running or tackling you and your screwdriver. I never said "no guns blah blah" so invalid point there. I said a screwdriver would take massively more effort to do anything with. A gun is a force multiplier, a screwdriver is a makeshift weapon. You can kill someone with anything if you want it bad enough, doesn't mean its worth the effort. Your picture proves absolutely nothing. I hope you're never on a jury if your criteria for anything is "looks crazy". Kid obviously had issues. Undiagnosed mental issue? Certainly possible and I'm sure there will be testing done there. Picked on? That's been confirmed by the girl in the interview at least. Brother is nuts, thats probably going to add some weight to your world. Raised by grandparents, I loved mine but I wouldn't have felt like they could relate to my problems. When an animal is cornered they lash out. Obviously I think it'd be rational to believe this kid felt like he was cornered and this was his way of lashing out. Clearly it was a poor choice. | ||
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