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Okay, so here is something to consider... tl;dr: High level analysis will not get SC2 new viewership.
You like more analysis in your casts, and that's fine. To be honest, I really enjoy hearing high level analysis when I watch Starcraft as well, and that kind of casting has it's place. But please don't try to say that that's what everything should be... and the reason why is because high level analysis will NEVER get anyone new into watching Starcraft. It is only enjoyable to people who are already into Starcraft, and already somewhat knowledgeable about the game.. but if we want SC2 to grow as an industry it must be accessible to people who don't necessarily even play the game at all.
You or I can listen to MC and MKP say cryptic things and have a wonderful time, or listen to Idra talk about what idiosyncrasies lead to the result of his game and be fascinated, but a new viewer that might be prone to becoming interested in SC2 will be confused and turn it off after 5 seconds and not be inclined to tune in again.
As an example, when Dota2 first hit, and they had that huge million dollar tournament, I tuned into the broadcast to see what this new game was like... the casters clearly knew everything about the players, teams, heroes, skills, tactics, etc... but as someone who never played Dota, I didn't understand a single thing they were saying. I forced myself to watch for a little while out of professional interest, but got bored very quickly and couldn't stand it for very long.
What do you see when you tune into a professional athletic sports broadcast? Do they go into deep analysis of excruciating specifics of the game? No, because that's not what the casual viewer wants, and it's casual viewers that make "normal" sports multimillion-viewer industries... Sure, they will give simple analysis like "the outfielders are pushed in because they don't think he'll hit it very far" but that's something you can understand without too much prior knowledge. You may think that "oh he's expanding so he can get a better economy" is "newb" but it's what casters need to be saying to appeal to a broad audience. I'm sorry, but no one that's not a player is going to give a flying fuck if someone cuts probes at 20 or 22, and they'll change the channel.
Now... why is this important? You may not care at all if the industry grows, as long as you are entertained, right? Well, that's a fair argument, but the flaw in that is that if the industry doesn't grow, it will stagnate and decline. If we ONLY depend on analysis like we see in Home Story Cups, then eventually the money will dry up and we won't have those at all.
So, to answer your question directly, why are our casts "newb?" Because we love SC2 as an eSport and want it to grow, and so we want to make it accessible so many others have the chance to love it as well. Let's not forget that a huge portion of SC2 fans got into it because a caster talked newb to us to show us their passion for the sport before we could understand it in depth.
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Diferent languages - > Diferent audiences. I dont need the super analitical cast, and thats why when I football (not soccer you damn americans  ) I prefer to listen to the radio casts, where they are having fun commentating.
I used to not like mr Biscuit for example, and I grews used to enjoy his casts also. Every commentator is different and you cant make general assumptions. Even if I like to generalice about the fact I hate casts in spanish 
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On January 26 2012 10:31 RinconH wrote:
German Dude w face piercing (always forget his name)
If you mean Rotterdam you also forgot his country
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I'm inclined to agree, although I don't really have a choice besides muting since I don't really speak another language.
For entertainment however, I actually prefer Korean casters simply because they do a better job at making games look more exciting than it really is. I also like TB's casting =3 He's so chill and pairing him up with Apollo = fav casting duo.
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On January 26 2012 11:06 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 11:02 Nick.TNA wrote:Most are. You and Day9 are both very unique though, and don't attempt to copy other casters, and use their bandwagon slogans. So props on that TB  . Personally I enjoy player casters, they are much more knowledgable, I would rather see Idra or Huk or MC or someone over even tastosis any day. Not only do fresh personalities bring a lot to the table, they just explain things on a much deeper level. They've played the same situation out thousands of times, there is just simply no way that full time casters that don't play much can compete with that. Someone whos amazing at analytic casts is Grubby. That guy not only has a spectacular personality, he can explain why a play is doing something pretty much in every situation, at least every time i've seen him cast. It should be fairly obvious to anyone that a pro player will have much more insight than a caster. If you're a full time caster, you do not have time to be a full time player and vice-versa, as a result players have strengths casters do not and casters have strengths players do not. There are some players who cannot string a sentence together and have the personality of a hunk of plywood. There are some casters who serve to do nothing but irritate the shit out of their viewers.
Yeah you hit the nail on the head. Here is what I envision happening in the next couple of years. The current host of casters will gradually stop and retire, and the new blood will be retired players that played at a very high level for a long time who no longer have the drive to commit the time to play professionally. I think at this point that the game is just too young for people to cast full time that have an extremely exquisite knowledge of the game, because at this point, they should be peaking in skill and results. I think that the current casters who don't have a strong professional sc2 background, however, are doing very well given their obvious limitations.
Coupled with that, a lot of games are winged by the pro players. Builds and timings haven't had the time to settle into perfection, and players haven't been presented with every possible situation that could go wrong during a build, so it becomes somewhat of a free for all when something goes wrong. No one can expect casters to know what players are doing if the players themselves haven't even figured it out and are just trying their best. The game just needs to have run a longer life before casting can boom to that level.
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Except the people paying for GOMTV aren't these people you're "expanding to". These aren't 'newbs' that need to be casted to like todlers, they know the game, most gamers know SC2, the community is well..the community. Not a bunch of random people in bars or stadiums.
The simple explanation is technical casting is simply too hard compared to screaming what's happening on the screen, so you let yourself slide, and you will fight to stay there 'for the greater good'.
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i think its simple, those who study the game and talk with players on their insight and whats in their head will cast better.
in that sense i think korean casters are very professional about their job.
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On January 26 2012 11:20 DarKcS wrote:
Except the people paying for GOMTV aren't these people you're "expanding to". These aren't 'newbs' that need to be casted to like todlers, they know the game, most gamers know SC2, the community is well..the community. Not a bunch of random people in bars or stadiums.
The simple explanation is technical casting is simply too hard compared to screaming what's happening on the screen, so you let yourself slide, and you will fight to stay there 'for the greater good'.
I do find the whole aversion to "screaming at the screen" to be a big bucket of double-standards, especially when the same people who decry it happily sing the praises of the Korean casters who scream even more than the English ones.
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United States22883 Posts
I don't speak Korean but I prefer the Korean casting during WCG.
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On January 26 2012 11:12 Moletrap wrote:
Okay, so here is something to consider... tl;dr: High level analysis will not get SC2 new viewership.
You like more analysis in your casts, and that's fine. To be honest, I really enjoy hearing high level analysis when I watch Starcraft as well, and that kind of casting has it's place. But please don't try to say that that's what everything should be... and the reason why is because high level analysis will NEVER get anyone new into watching Starcraft. It is only enjoyable to people who are already into Starcraft, and already somewhat knowledgeable about the game.. but if we want SC2 to grow as an industry it must be accessible to people who don't necessarily even play the game at all.
You or I can listen to MC and MKP say cryptic things and have a wonderful time, or listen to Idra talk about what idiosyncrasies lead to the result of his game and be fascinated, but a new viewer that might be prone to becoming interested in SC2 will be confused and turn it off after 5 seconds and not be inclined to tune in again.
As an example, when Dota2 first hit, and they had that huge million dollar tournament, I tuned into the broadcast to see what this new game was like... the casters clearly knew everything about the players, teams, heroes, skills, tactics, etc... but as someone who never played Dota, I didn't understand a single thing they were saying. I forced myself to watch for a little while out of professional interest, but got bored very quickly and couldn't stand it for very long.
What do you see when you tune into a professional athletic sports broadcast? Do they go into deep analysis of excruciating specifics of the game? No, because that's not what the casual viewer wants, and it's casual viewers that make "normal" sports multimillion-viewer industries... Sure, they will give simple analysis like "the outfielders are pushed in because they don't think he'll hit it very far" but that's something you can understand without too much prior knowledge. You may think that "oh he's expanding so he can get a better economy" is "newb" but it's what casters need to be saying to appeal to a broad audience. I'm sorry, but no one that's not a player is going to give a flying fuck if someone cuts probes at 20 or 22, and they'll change the channel.
Now... why is this important? You may not care at all if the industry grows, as long as you are entertained, right? Well, that's a fair argument, but the flaw in that is that if the industry doesn't grow, it will stagnate and decline. If we ONLY depend on analysis like we see in Home Story Cups, then eventually the money will dry up and we won't have those at all.
So, to answer your question directly, why are our casts "newb?" Because we love SC2 as an eSport and want it to grow, and so we want to make it accessible so many others have the chance to love it as well. Let's not forget that a huge portion of SC2 fans got into it because a caster talked newb to us to show us their passion for the sport before we could understand it in depth.
Once again, very true. However, that doesn't mean that EVERY cast needs to cater to new viewers. I'd even go as far as to suggest that low level casting that caters to new players turns off more viewers that love sc2 than it attracts in new people. In an ideal world, which I know the world isn't  , there would be two casts concurrently like an event for GSL. Stream 1 would be high level of analysis, and stream 2 would be more entertainment based.
I love that you guys are passionate enough to try your hardest to attract new viewers and grow esports, but if everyone tries that all at once, then we have no high level commentating either. The current viewer base that wants high level analysis is much larger than that of incoming new viewers. There needs to be a fine balance.
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Polish casts are atrocious.
90% swearing
10% saying whats on the screen.
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I think the problem is that the English language in general lacks the enthusiasm of other languages.
Just my opinion.
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I feel like you're very right about the lack of in-depth analysis in English commentaries, but it seems like a lot of those casters that are popular without any certain insight into the game have become very popular due to their personality etc.
I think there's a bunch of unknown or lesser recognized casters out there that deserve way more credit for their game knowledge such as Katu or Orb.
Thankfully the casters with a deeper lack of insight into the game usually stay away from making in-depth analysis, because whenever they try to it often makes them come off as a bit ignorant, but that's just my opinion anyway.
I only speak English and Danish fluently, and can understand most German and Spanish.
I've listened to German ones such as TakeTV and Khaldor, but I still prefer the English ones atm.
I get the notion that casters who don't bother increasing their game knowledge take their priviledge a bit for granted, because I feel that in-depth analysis is part of what makes Starcraft a lot more entertaining to watch compared to huge sports such as football, tennis etc., which just has a lot of play-by-play commentary. I feel like I know the reason for pretty much most moves the pros do these days though, so I don't mind it if they joke around quite a bit either. I feel so connected, when casters make jokes about old video games and so on. :3
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REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER REAVER
PLAGYYYGUUUUUUUUUU PLAYGUUUUUU YAHHHHHHHH PLAYGU GAH
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On January 26 2012 11:22 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 11:20 DarKcS wrote:
Except the people paying for GOMTV aren't these people you're "expanding to". These aren't 'newbs' that need to be casted to like todlers, they know the game, most gamers know SC2, the community is well..the community. Not a bunch of random people in bars or stadiums.
The simple explanation is technical casting is simply too hard compared to screaming what's happening on the screen, so you let yourself slide, and you will fight to stay there 'for the greater good'. I do find the whole aversion to "screaming at the screen" to be a big bucket of double-standards, especially when the same people who decry it happily sing the praises of the Korean casters who scream even more than the English ones.
I don't speak Korean, and I don't claim to know the Korean casting appeal, but remember, the grass is always greener on the other side. Instead of pointing elsewhere and making claims, I think we should focus on improving English casts as its own individual entity. Sure its good. Sure its not perfect. Can we make it better? Yes. Do we need to base it off the Korean blueprint? No. If people want better casting that's in their rights to voice, however, I think its silly to point everywhere but English casts when doing so.
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This thread is dumb, plus how can you not like gomtv. Tastosis is accepted as the best casting duo in sc2.
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Calgary25981 Posts
Don't open a thread based on percentage estimates further based on stuff your roommates told you.
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EPT
