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Why are English casts so "newb" in comparison? - Page 4

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SkimGuy
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada709 Posts
January 26 2012 01:58 GMT
#61
Lets put it this way, if I knew Korean, I would never watch another English cast again
DarKcS
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1237 Posts
January 26 2012 01:58 GMT
#62
So I'm watching the IPL.
Jeez. 'HE GOT THE SPIRE' - nope. Then 30 seconds of screaming 'THE SPIRE IS DYING'. Thanks. Great analysis. SO what's happening with the marine tank push behind this?? I'm learning a lot!
Most casters ARE brain dead, teach you nothing about the game, on IPL just now they admit they don't know if upgrades effect Raven turrets - they would if they ever saw a replay 6 months ago of Mass Ravens [in pro games] but clearly they don't stay with 'what's hip' and came out of nowhere to blab on a mic for 60 minutes a day.
Die tomorrow - Live today
Vinland
Profile Joined April 2011
Argentina136 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-26 02:01:54
January 26 2012 01:59 GMT
#63
You could really apreciate the difference in game knowledge on Homestory Cup. The players casting gave amazing info on the games there, I really loved that.

Casters may focus too much on giving (or trying to give) an entertaining cast, but forget that analisis is also an important part in describing the game.
The problem is that to make that kind of analisis you need a huge amount of general knowledge of the game, diferent builds and timings of each race, and that can only be gained by hard work, analizing tons of replays and studing different kinds of game styles.
Players already have all that info on their head, so that kind of stuff comes naturally from them. Casters need to work on it.
Gyro_SC2
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
January 26 2012 01:59 GMT
#64
Hi, Im a french canadien.

I prefer english caster to the french one. But its depent on the caster.

I think nobody can be day9 or tartosis. But I dont like the others.
EntertainMe
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
864 Posts
January 26 2012 02:00 GMT
#65
It's unfair to compare SC2 with SC:BW.
BW has been played over 10 years and casted for just as long.
BW somewhat has been, for the lack of better term, "figured-out or textbook'ed". It is alot easier for someone to be very analytical with BW compared to SC2 where the trend is always twisting and unstable.

Truth be told, Korean SC2 casters aren't that splendid. Granted, they're ALOT (significantly) more analytical than English cast, however, they aren't always correct (Very unlike bw-counterparts and annoys me to death).
Befree
Profile Joined April 2010
695 Posts
January 26 2012 02:01 GMT
#66
I'm not much of a critic so I usually am just pretty happy with anyone casting just because I like SC2 and having someone talk about it while the game is happening makes it more interesting to me.

I particularily enjoy GSL English casting. I really like the whole feel of their casting and their style. It makes me almost feel like I'm there, or a part of it because of the way they speak to viewers and eachother. I can listen to games without ever actually watching the video part and still enjoy them. I feel like there is a good amount of strategy talked about as well that helps me understand what's going on. I'm not sure if I'd enjoy it as much if it became purely analytical.

I really like analyses, but I think they have a time and place and I don't think live casting large tournaments is that time/place.
KicKDoG
Profile Joined December 2003
Sweden765 Posts
January 26 2012 02:01 GMT
#67
On January 26 2012 10:55 StRyKeR wrote:
I noticed this in BW. Korean commentators would spend 75% of time on in-depth analysis of the game, less than 10% on what's happening on the screen, and the rest on jokes / related builds / events / backstory. Was always amazed by how much the commentators knew.


I guess you know the language very well?
http://www.twitter.com/KicKDoG_LoL baylife plox?
Nick.TNA
Profile Joined June 2010
209 Posts
January 26 2012 02:02 GMT
#68
On January 26 2012 10:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 10:08 piplup wrote:
It's because everyone's trying to copy/one up tastosis


We really aren't


Most are. You and Day9 are both very unique though, and don't attempt to copy other casters, and use their bandwagon slogans. So props on that TB . Personally I enjoy player casters, they are much more knowledgable, I would rather see Idra or Huk or MC or someone over even tastosis any day. Not only do fresh personalities bring a lot to the table, they just explain things on a much deeper level. They've played the same situation out thousands of times, there is just simply no way that full time casters that don't play much can compete with that.

Someone whos amazing at analytic casts is Grubby. That guy not only has a spectacular personality, he can explain why a play is doing something pretty much in every situation, at least every time i've seen him cast.
sparC
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany162 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-26 02:03:32
January 26 2012 02:02 GMT
#69
On January 26 2012 10:12 Leviwtf wrote:
People want different things from a cast, some people want in depth analysis and strategy talk, others want to get excited and just let the game be enjoyable to watch. Its impossible for a caster to appeal to everyone.

It would be interesting if you got hard data on this, for example in a cast of 10 minutes how many actual seconds is spent on each of your categories? The percentages you wrote are somewhat out of thin air and very dependent on the particular caster.


yet, you have to admit, that you rarely ever see an english cast analysing the game/builds/timings (edit : in depth and through out a game).
just because one caster can't fullfil every demand doesn't mean they should completely give up on certain aspects or every caster going with the masses.
most of the times i will mute the cast after a while, because it gets boring.

imo a cast should add instead of amplify what i already see.

eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
January 26 2012 02:04 GMT
#70
I think that with enough time, the English casting will eventually catch up in quality to the Korean casting.

Keep in mind that not only did Korea master playing Starcraft over the span of over a decade, they also mastered the art of broadcasting and commentating it. Hopefully with enough interest in SC2, the quality of English casts will eventually catch up to that of other languages, though this will take the hard work of all casters to up their game.

Although I don't know Korean, I often do hear how exquisite Korean casts are compared to English casts from the posts of various Korean-understanding TL members. I watched the recent interview with Hwanni, and he greatly praised (T)TheMarine for being such a hard-working, knowledgeable caster during the WCG SC2 games.

TBH, although I am satisfied with the current state of English casting, I hope that casters will strive harder to improve themselves.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Nick.TNA
Profile Joined June 2010
209 Posts
January 26 2012 02:05 GMT
#71
On January 26 2012 10:25 Eknoid4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2012 10:08 piplup wrote:
It's because everyone's trying to copy/one up tastosis


And tastosis doesn't have hardly any player/game insight that they offer (regardless of what they KNOW, they are too busy telling us that you don't wanna fight 1 stalker with 2 unstimmable marines)


Artosis has a good bit of game insight, however tasteless is just oblivious lol. At this point I feel like hes riding on past success and knowledge, which of course, is very transferable to sc2, but all he can do is playbyplay and humor.
kakaman
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1576 Posts
January 26 2012 02:05 GMT
#72
If you watch any regular sports broadcast in the English language, the % are similar to what you listed in the SC2 casts. Broadcasts are meant for the general audience, they are really there just to aid what is going on. For example, when I watch football, analysts are not spending most of the time talking about Cover-2 defense, how it mitigates crossing routes for receivers, etc.
dartoo
Profile Joined May 2010
India2889 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-26 02:07:27
January 26 2012 02:06 GMT
#73
As much as I'd like to have indepth technical analysis in a game, I think the amount given by tastosis/day9 is enough (ratio of tech info to other things). Too much of it and begins to feel like I'm sitting in a starcraft class. The homestory cup was awesome, but it was because again the players were big names themselves, and there was a lot of mixed banter/poking fun in the casts.

I dont know about casts in other languages cause I dont understand what they say, so cant really compare how the stack up against english language casts. But the korean casts sure sounds good, especially in pro league.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-26 02:07:34
January 26 2012 02:06 GMT
#74
On January 26 2012 11:02 Nick.TNA wrote:

Most are. You and Day9 are both very unique though, and don't attempt to copy other casters, and use their bandwagon slogans. So props on that TB . Personally I enjoy player casters, they are much more knowledgable, I would rather see Idra or Huk or MC or someone over even tastosis any day. Not only do fresh personalities bring a lot to the table, they just explain things on a much deeper level. They've played the same situation out thousands of times, there is just simply no way that full time casters that don't play much can compete with that.

Someone whos amazing at analytic casts is Grubby. That guy not only has a spectacular personality, he can explain why a play is doing something pretty much in every situation, at least every time i've seen him cast.


It should be fairly obvious to anyone that a pro player will have much more insight than a caster. If you're a full time caster, you do not have time to be a full time player and vice-versa, as a result players have strengths casters do not and casters have strengths players do not. There are some players who cannot string a sentence together and have the personality of a hunk of plywood. There are some casters who serve to do nothing but irritate the shit out of their viewers.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
devPLEASE
Profile Joined March 2011
Kenya605 Posts
January 26 2012 02:08 GMT
#75
Well if I knew how to understand Chinese I would watch. Teach me? xD
(ノ `Д´)ノ︵┻━┻
Kmatt
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1019 Posts
January 26 2012 02:08 GMT
#76
This is why I only like to watch a few casters, such as Day[9], who actually tell me stuff I didn't already know. Watching Husky cast is like trying to make the production tab more interesting. One of the only GSL vods I've watched (since game 1 is free) was a TvZ on Bel'Shir beach. The summary of the almighty gods of StarCraft2, Tasteless and Artosis, went as such.

-Spent a full 3 minutes introducing the players (After I skipped about 12+ minutes of player intros, mind you)
-Making vague references most people wouldn't get
-Silence. More than any caster(s) I've ever seen
-Giving a poor analysis of how the Zerg would defend a push that wasn't coming
-Talking about map aesthetics, doodads, etc.
-Laughing to themselves and not even putting the camera on the major timing attack of the midgame
-More silence

I don't see what the hype is. Sometimes I envision myself casting the same games I watch as they play out, and while I obviously have a biased opinion, I feel I could often do a better job. Maybe one of these days, I'll grab a mic and some vods, throw it to the internet and watch. But that's another story.
We CAN have nice things
Biggun69
Profile Joined December 2010
187 Posts
January 26 2012 02:08 GMT
#77
The problem is that there is this misconception that a play-by-play commentator doesn't have to know anything about the game but this is very false. Every caster should put a lot of effort into playing sc2 as much as they can so they can build up their knowledge. If you look at all the top casters like tastosis, day9, etc they all actually play or have played the game a lot so they understand what they are talking about.

Also, playing random is bad. If a caster is reading this then pick once of the races, watch some replays of pro players and copy one or two builds per matchup. Then go on ladder and practice over and over until you get very good and get high up in the leagues. Then once you are decent with one race switch to another and so forth until you can play all three races. It's already hard enough to learn 3 matchups not to mention 9 at once lol. Also, once you get good at one race you should be able to transfer the mechanics to another race easily. I'd recommend playing zerg first or terran as these two take more apm then protoss.

In terms of actual quality of casting, I have recently been watching a lot of the Australian Open tennis tournament and I have to say this year its not as bad but usually the commentators say the most RETARDED things in between points and it absolutely drives me crazy. They say pointless things just for the sake of saying it. The commentary of sc2 matches is far and away better than the commentary of tennis and tennis is a sport with many millions of dollars in the industry so I think we should he happy that we arn't that bad. However, there is room for improvement and casters just need to learn how to play the game well and overall you should see a big improvement in quality of casting.

stra
Profile Joined January 2012
5 Posts
January 26 2012 02:09 GMT
#78
Asians have always been better at games... its in their blood. Look at japan for example, their countries main export is hentai.
Zidane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1692 Posts
January 26 2012 02:11 GMT
#79
I'm gonna blame a lot of this on GSL and call it the "Tastosis Syndrome"

Everyone and their mom (amateur casters, IPL casters, NASL casters + more), love to try to imitate Tastosis because they believe them to be wildly successful - which in a sense they are.

But this leads to all these casters using corny jokes, saying random word or phrase X then ending it with the word man. Saying unit Y "are pretty good." And calling everything that is slightly interesting "sick" or "baller."

"I don't know if he can do it MAN."
"Yeah voidrays are pretty good"
"That was a sick build MAN"
"He's soo goood"

Then they'll add in random jokes using the keyword "Like" - in particular Tasteless/Orb/Painuser will do this quite often
"MKP was so LIKE give me your nerd tears MAN" (hard to explain but you might know what I mean)
EntertainMe
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
864 Posts
January 26 2012 02:11 GMT
#80
On January 26 2012 11:04 eviltomahawk wrote:
I think that with enough time, the English casting will eventually catch up in quality to the Korean casting.

Keep in mind that not only did Korea master playing Starcraft over the span of over a decade, they also mastered the art of broadcasting and commentating it. Hopefully with enough interest in SC2, the quality of English casts will eventually catch up to that of other languages, though this will take the hard work of all casters to up their game.

Although I don't know Korean, I often do hear how exquisite Korean casts are compared to English casts from the posts of various Korean-understanding TL members. I watched the recent interview with Hwanni, and he greatly praised (T)TheMarine for being such a hard-working, knowledgeable caster during the WCG SC2 games.

TBH, although I am satisfied with the current state of English casting, I hope that casters will strive harder to improve themselves.


TheMarine, upon completion of Korean Military Service, came back as analytic caster and is accepted/loved by majority.
He once revealed how he practices casting in a show called "Backstage Talk". He casts game after game alone without any sound. He tries to predict every game and see how much % he could predict it right. The flow, the Builds and ultimately outcome. This way, he can see if he is following the current trend of the game. Also keeps in check if his knowledge is uptodate with the rest of progamers.
He concluded by saying he gets about 90%ish correct every practice cast.

Pretty darn good I'd say.
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