EPTIs it morale for you to accept a beating to protect the person beating you up?
With the answer yes. Which perplexes me.
Bully Victim stabbed Bully to Death - Page 23
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
Is it morale for you to accept a beating to protect the person beating you up? With the answer yes. Which perplexes me. | ||
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theBALLS
Singapore2935 Posts
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On January 10 2012 20:53 paralleluniverse wrote: I don't mean to be rude, but how will you transport a kitchen knife home after purchasing it? How would a goods handler open boxes if not with cardboard cutter? The other poster specifically said weapons. I've watched people get dicked for possession of concealed weapons by cops on clubbing nights all the time. Anywhere from blunt objects like spanners and all manner of knives, switchblades swiss pocket are illegal. (Melbourne) | ||
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sulliwan
85 Posts
On January 10 2012 20:38 S_SienZ wrote: Knee jerk reactions and sticking to absolute sweeping statements like "Killing is always wrong" as truth, isn't intelligence. Bullies usually come from severely broken families and are abused themselves. Statements which dehumanize someone and don't stop to consider things from another point of view are always ignorant. "Kill all bullies, they are human scum" is not the same as "Yes, the victim in these circumstances used a justified amount of force as response". It's the first kind of statement, of which there are lots in this thread, that are appalling, not the second kind. | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On January 10 2012 20:57 Paperplane wrote: If you have a kitchen knife in a bag/box it's a bit different then if you're carrying it on you. Most knives are illegal to carry in public. Not all knives qualify as 'weapons'. I have to admit I have not read this entire law but this one is about weapons which I assume are all illegal to carry but for knives there are rules about the length of the blade and such. You can read it here: http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0008804/tekst_bevat_wapens/geldigheidsdatum_10-01-2012 (in Dutch, mind you). An often returning property of a 'weapon knife' seems to be a blade which cuts at both sides. Plenty of knives don't have that. Again, I have not read the entire thing so it's possible they talk about those somewhere further along. | ||
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Eisregen
Germany967 Posts
And in first place, the bullied was endangered by people cutting off any way to escape, by a bully punching him with an attempt to clearly hurt the bullied physically. The bullied endured the situation over a year already. So the bullied must have panicked and acted to defend his life, and thats his attempt! Anyone, if attacked physically has the right to self defend himself and thats the point here. The line from self-defence towards murder would be crossed if the bullied intentionally (after he defended himself in a proper way!!!) kept stabbing the bully. (although e.g. german law also knows other cases than only self-defence and murder). The bullied should be punished for carrying a weapon though, but well, wont happen as it is the US I guess =) | ||
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Iranon
United States983 Posts
On January 10 2012 20:55 CortoMontez wrote: I would advise you learn your own laws... in Victoria atleast it is only considered a weapon if it is being carried with the purpose of being used as a weapon. This means that the kitchen knife and box cutter scenarios are perfectly legal here, whilst a pocket knife for 'self-defence' would land you in some trouble if caught. For reference, the knife laws in the US vary fairly drastically from state to state -- it depends on whether it's folding or fixed-blade, whether a folding knife has some sort of assisted opening mechanism (e.g. switchblades), and the length of the blade. Small (2-4 inch) bladed folding knives are legal to carry concealed almost everywhere, but assisted-opening or fixed-blade legality is a bit more variable as you move around the country. For example, in the state where I was born, anything is legal as long as the blade is under 3". Where I live now, 3.5" folding knives and 1.5" switchblades are legal, but fixed blades are not. In FL, where this occurred, all knives are legal to carry openly, and 4" folding knives are legal to carry concealed. I almost always have a pocketknife (a habit I picked up from backpacking), and you'd be surprised at how useful it is in everyday life -- I cut my fruit at lunch, open packages, cut loose strings off of clothing, etc. "Self-defense" is not really one of the reasons I carry a knife. | ||
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Notfragile
Greece713 Posts
Seriously, I find a lot of hope in this incident. A lot of danger as well. Hope: + Show Spoiler + Kid being bullied. Noone ever cares. Kid is challenged before the incident. Circle of bullies to see the kid getting beat on. Kid has a knife with him (obviously no match in an unarmed fight). Kid injures and kills the bully in self defense. Kid gets no charges for murder. Question: What should the kid have done? Have you ever been in a situation like this?? I have. Let me explain: a) Don't expose the knife. Get the shit beat out of you. b) Expose the knife and threaten them to back off. Then either they back off but the situation gets escalated and they bring a knife as well next time, with really unpleasant consequences. Or, they have time to find a way to disarm the 1vsMany kid and use it against him. Even if they don't stab him, he'll get beat on worse because this is no more "harmless fun" on behalf of the bullies, they suddently feel threatened and that they have to teach the kid a lesson. c) Use the knife for self defense, is a surprising fashion to try and injure the attacker. Remember, blood is pounding with adrenaline and if you are not trained, then you are not able to distinguish between an injury and a fatal stab. The kid had no control over the severity of the wounds he would cause. Then would you say that scenario a) is acceptable? No, it is not. Even if the bully is victim of child violence and all that shit, he still is the one doing harm to someone else. And that someone else has to resort to self defence, if the state/school/family cannot protect him. scenario b) is out of question. The kid would have been fucked for reasons i've explained above. Don't ever do that, it's better to take the beating if you decide not to counter-attack. scenario c) happened and i'm glad it did. The kid had the balls to end what was happening to him. Definately unpleasant, yet it is not the kid's fault, it's fault of the bully/his parents/society etc. Danger: + Show Spoiler + Taking matters into one's own hands can easily escalate bullying into bloody fights or even incude gangs in it. A bully will back off if there is real danger in most of the cases. A bully is a weak, pathetic being, trying desperately to prove to himself that he is something above trash (which he obviously is not, if he is conducting that behaviour). He will hesitate to assault someone who he thinks is dangerous. But, it leaves open the scenario for escalating violence. If the bully knows a kid who he has been bullying is dangerous, IF he ever decides it's worth the shot, he will take the kid down. Not simply punching and harassing. Hospital or even worse. Leaving the path open for counter violence, etc, etc, etc All in all I strongly think the judge made the correct decision. If the judge decided elsewise, then even when under threat of serious harm, a kid who is being bullied has no option but to lay on the ground and stay someone's punch bag. Now, thet someone knows there are limits he should not pass. Because the law states one has the right to self defense and that court applied the law to it's full extent. Condolences to the family of the pathetic (yet still human) bully. | ||
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guyabs
Philippines103 Posts
On January 10 2012 21:21 Notfragile wrote: Excellent! Seriously, I find a lot of hope in this incident. A lot of danger as well. Hope: + Show Spoiler + Kid being bullied. Noone ever cares. Kid is challenged before the incident. Circle of bullies to see the kid getting beat on. Kid has a knife with him (obviously no match in an unarmed fight). Kid injures and kills the bully in self defense. Kid gets no charges for murder. Question: What should the kid have done? Have you ever been in a situation like this?? I have. Let me explain: a) Don't expose the knife. Get the shit beat out of you. b) Expose the knife and threaten them to back off. Then either they back off but the situation gets escalated and they bring a knife as well next time, with really unpleasant consequences. Or, they have time to find a way to disarm the 1vsMany kid and use it against him. Even if they don't stab him, he'll get beat on worse because this is no more "harmless fun" on behalf of the bullies, they suddently feel threatened and that they have to teach the kid a lesson. c) Use the knife for self defense, is a surprising fashion to try and injure the attacker. Remember, blood is pounding with adrenaline and if you are not trained, then you are not able to distinguish between an injury and a fatal stab. The kid had no control over the severity of the wounds he would cause. Then would you say that scenario a) is acceptable? No, it is not. Even if the bully is victim of child violence and all that shit, he still is the one doing harm to someone else. And that someone else has to resort to self defence, if the state/school/family cannot protect him. scenario b) is out of question. The kid would have been fucked for reasons i've explained above. Don't ever do that, it's better to take the beating if you decide not to counter-attack. scenario c) happened and i'm glad it did. The kid had the balls to end what was happening to him. Definately unpleasant, yet it is not the kid's fault, it's fault of the bully/his parents/society etc. Danger: + Show Spoiler + Taking matters into one's own hands can easily escalate bullying into bloody fights or even incude gangs in it. A bully will back off if there is real danger in most of the cases. A bully is a weak, pathetic being, trying desperately to prove to himself that he is something above trash (which he obviously is not, if he is conducting that behaviour). He will hesitate to assault someone who he thinks is dangerous. But, it leaves open the scenario for escalating violence. If the bully knows a kid who he has been bullying is dangerous, IF he ever decides it's worth the shot, he will take the kid down. Not simply punching and harassing. Hospital or even worse. Leaving the path open for counter violence, etc, etc, etc All in all I strongly think the judge made the correct decision. If the judge decided elsewise, then even when under threat of serious harm, a kid who is being bullied has no option but to lay on the ground and stay someone's punch bag. Now, thet someone knows there are limits he should not pass. Because the law states one has the right to self defense and that court applied the law to it's full extent. Condolences to the family of the pathetic (yet still human) bully. Can't agree with you more. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
If a student gets caught bullying once, they should be expelled for that entire year to keep the bullied kid away from them, maybe then their parents would pay attention to their little shithead kids. | ||
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taitanik
Latvia231 Posts
On January 10 2012 16:56 nennx wrote: Stabbing someone 12 times is not an appropiate action for defending yourself from someone who is unnarmed. No one he should get away with absolutely no criminal penalties (I might agree that a murder charge would be too much), but our laws are so fucked up thats whats going to happen. maybe he thought that if he would stab him 1 time the other guy would still be able to beat him up even harder so he didint take any chances :D | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On January 10 2012 15:40 Kenpachi wrote: :l.. Its a tricky situation, however carrying a knife is completely justified. I believe that you should keep 1 hidden just cause how useful it can be. I hate this situation and reading some of these comments just piss me off. no wait, i hate you all. LOL I find it quite sad, because in the end, even the kid who killed will have this on him all his life. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On January 10 2012 21:26 taitanik wrote: maybe he thought that if he would stab him 1 time the other guy would still be able to beat him up even harder so he didint take any chances :D Some people are making it out as if the bullied kid went up behind and the bully and shivved him 12 time prison style.... which isn't the case... | ||
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NagAfightinG
United Kingdom270 Posts
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13Julia
Canada231 Posts
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crankkky
9 Posts
but in our case it was a lethal wepon and unarmed so im a liitle eddgy on calling it self defense ~ take note the thing i said about equal; force being used in self defense was told by my english teacher so i may or may not be entirely accurate | ||
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llKenZyll
United States853 Posts
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FoeHamr
United States489 Posts
On January 10 2012 15:03 Deathmanbob wrote: protection is what i would guess, i dont know the area but there are parts of California where students take knifes with them for protection and people just kind of shrug and go ya that sounds about right. Sad but true on topic : Schools need to be more active about stopping bullying, if the kid is picking on him for over a year this seems like something that can happen. I agree with the judge that he did not murder him but acted in self defense I don't actually agree with that. Its obviously the schools job to protect them, but honestly it comes down to the students standing up for themselves or each other. There's only so much other people can do for you. | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
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bLooD.
Germany470 Posts
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