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On January 10 2012 17:44 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:10 Detwiler wrote:
I dont know if I buy this. I got in fight in school and i never killed anyone. I dont think he should just get off free. Ok i get it he was bullied. That sucks but he KILLED the other kid. You could go even as far as to call it premeditated murder. The kid had a ton of options to choose from. What he choose was to get a knife and kill the guy. Except that's not what happened at all. First realize, it's a 14 year old vs a 17 year old. You "getting in a fight in school" isn't even relevant, unless it's a similar scenario. I've been in a few fights, won a majority of them. But this kid was outnumbered. I can relate, my friend and I were jumped by 10 other guys who were just looking for a fight for shits and giggles. We didn't even know them. I got my ass kicked, face all bruised up, couldn't sleep on one side of my head at night because of all the bruising. The police were notified, they didn't do shit. You know what they said? "Fights like these happen constantly, we usually just let it go unless there's more threats of constant harassment, etc." In other words, the police don't give a shit unless they have to. Of course, there may have been constant harassment in this case, but with bullying "telling on someone" is never an option, and to those who say "call the police" I can only laugh at/mock them. He didn't "choose" to kill the guy. In fact, he tried to do the opposite. He tried to get away from this bully without fighting for an entire year. He tried to tell the bully to not fight him. He even tried to get off the damn bus multiple stops early. To continue, he even tried to ignore the bully after the bully started following him, until the bully sucker punched him in the back of the head. Are you friggin' kidding me?
Lol seriously, some of these replies are astounding. There isn't a fine line between stabbing someone for threatening to beat your ass vs someone actually in the process of beating your ass. To borrow a line from House; "There is, in fact, a Great Wall of China with armed sentries posted every 20 feet." The bully wasn't stabbed because he threatened to give a beat down. He wasn't stabbed in the middle of making that threat or while throwing a packet of syrup. He was stabbed while repeatedly sucker punching a smaller victim that was running away.
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On January 10 2012 17:49 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:28 FFGenerations wrote:i typed his name into youtube like that other guy said , there was an anime video of him being beheaded to the morrowind soundtrack (spoilers!!) and also this + Show Spoiler +i just cant get my head around it, this culture thing Fuck this bitch was vacuous and annoying. She spent most of the video talking about her games, lack of makeup and then being distracted. Did this get posted after he died? Who makes a tribute to someone and then can't even stop playing a game while doing it?
i thought it was a troll but apparently the date is 2010 or something
i just find it so............i mean i know young girls do crazy silly videos but this is a whole other level. maybe it was his GF tho which would excuse it entirely. the boy seems like the most popular kid in school, the entire social structure was built around him, then you have stuff like this.....its just not from my world. im trying not to say the word american here lol :/
edit: maybe it WAS a troll that she posted a few years ago in response to the crazy attention other girls were giving him? :D
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On January 10 2012 17:50 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:35 kittensrcute wrote:On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:
[quote]
We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. so if a group of kids are beating you and you have a knife on you for self defense because you've been constantly bullied, you wouldn't use the knife? Actually, a group of kids weren't beating him, one person was and 2 others were encouraging him to continue. And no, I wouldn't kill someone just because they were beating me up, and If I did for whatever reason, I wouldn't expect to get away with no charges.
So if someone who is bigger and older then you and does fighting sports starts beating you up youll just take it?
He did what he had to do, he fought back to defend himself, nothing else. He did what he had to do to protect himself.
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On January 10 2012 17:51 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:48 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:40 Uncultured wrote:On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:
[quote]
The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. Are you really trying to argue that you can only use a weapon in a fight if you don't know you're going to be attacked? Or are your saying that defending yourself from possible death with a weapon should never be allowed? Yes, I'm sure the kid was actually going to die. These kinds of fights always result in death. The problem with the law is that all it requires is that the "victim" feels like they are in serious danger, even if they are not. If he didn't stab the kid 12 times, he probably would have ended up with a black eye and/or a bloody noise. Now he is probably even more fucked up mentally and is behind in education and will probably never get a proper one. It also sends the message that it is ok to kill people who bully you. The idea isn't that fights like this always result in death. It's that they CAN and sometimes DO. And don't make me pull up the wealth of instances where this has happened. All you need to is google. You can't argue for what would have "probably" happened. You have to account for all reasonable outcomes.
Death isn't a reasonable outcome of a high school fight.
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On January 10 2012 17:08 Uncultured wrote:
The mental state of a child under attack can not be dismissed. You don't make rational decisions when you're under attack. You react. The fact that he stabbed the boy 12 times is more a testament to just how mentally strung out the poor kid was during this situation, than it is some sort of hint at the child "murderous intent". This is a good ruling. And there have been very similar rulings for people of all ages.
You cannot predict what you will do in a given situation until you are met with it. And people met with this situation usually do not behave rationally, and can not be considered at fault for their actions, unless they have been specifically trained to do otherwise.
If this were a case of a black belt Karav-maga instructer the charge would likely have been manslaughter. But it wasn't. It was some poor kid put into a terrible situation.
This does not mean we condone for a child to murder another when under such situations. It means we accept that there is no way we should expect someone to behave in a rational matter in such conditions.
I fully agree.
First off being bullied is not even remotely close to having a fight. We've all had fights in school/highschool. Having a fight with someone more or less the same size was ok, you would get a brown eye, the other would get one and next day you shake hands. This kid has been getting psychological trauma for over a year from the bully.
It's really tragic that someone had to die, but yes i consider this to be in self defense. School/police should start being pro-active in the outside school aspects that mean much to the development of children. I imagine being bullied can hurt you long time and affect your social capabilities and desires. Bullying should be viewed as serious offense not just some kind of "kids play".
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On January 10 2012 17:48 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:40 Uncultured wrote:On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:
[quote]
We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. Are you really trying to argue that you can only use a weapon in a fight if you don't know you're going to be attacked? Or are your saying that defending yourself from possible death with a weapon should never be allowed? Yes, I'm sure the kid was actually going to die. These kinds of fights always result in death. The problem with the law is that all it requires is that the "victim" feels like they are in serious danger, even if they are not. If he didn't stab the kid 12 times, he probably would have ended up with a black eye and/or a bloody noise. Now he is probably even more fucked up mentally and is behind in education and will probably never get a proper one. It also sends the message that it is ok to kill people who bully you.
And if he was seriously harmed? It's happened in the past and will continue to happen. Saying "he probably would have ended up with..." is a baseless assumption, he could have very well ended up hurt or even killed. It's happened before in cases very similar to this.
What he did was wrong, but it's the aggressor's fault this happened and to argue that he was not in danger is just ridiculous.
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On January 10 2012 17:54 -y0shi- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:50 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:35 kittensrcute wrote:On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:
[quote]
The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. so if a group of kids are beating you and you have a knife on you for self defense because you've been constantly bullied, you wouldn't use the knife? Actually, a group of kids weren't beating him, one person was and 2 others were encouraging him to continue. And no, I wouldn't kill someone just because they were beating me up, and If I did for whatever reason, I wouldn't expect to get away with no charges. So if someone who is bigger and older then you and does fighting sports starts beating you up youll just take it? He did what he had to do, he fought back to defend himself, nothing else. He did what he had to do to protect himself.
I would at least try to fight back or maybe just take it. I find it ridiculous that stabbing someone 12 times is considered protecting yourself. This goes a bit beyond protecting yourself, and should be treated this way.
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I think nennx is mentally deficient. Not only does he have absolutely no idea of what he's talking about, he's not even trying to bring any sort of a counter-argument to justify his stance. Can we please not think of him as a troll but as an idiot? Thank you.
On topic, I believe it is most definitely a fair verdict from the judge, pure self-defense. It's pretty fair to try and fight back against a person who has intently and repeatedly caused both mental and phsyical harm to you, isn't it? Not to mention the altered state of mind he was in during the stabbing incident, cause by both fear and previous trauma. Even going so far as to kill him, given the circumstances, I feel is extremely justified.
And to anyone and everyone claiming he should've just talked to the teachers or some other authority, that is incredible bullshit. It's pretty ironic that authorities are supposed to have, well, authority but they don't. And if that solution of telling on the bully has worked for you or for someone you know, then please consider yourself lucky, because in many many schools all around the world teachers don't give a shit. Maybe they did a few decades back, so that's why this "just tell the teachers" solution still lingers, but I can tell you that most don't. And police will probably disregard it as a much more trivial matter than it is, while claiming they have more important problems to solve, and that claim may or may not be true.
Just my 2 cents, though most of it has been already posted.
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On January 10 2012 17:55 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:51 Uncultured wrote:On January 10 2012 17:48 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:40 Uncultured wrote:On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:
[quote]
Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. Are you really trying to argue that you can only use a weapon in a fight if you don't know you're going to be attacked? Or are your saying that defending yourself from possible death with a weapon should never be allowed? Yes, I'm sure the kid was actually going to die. These kinds of fights always result in death. The problem with the law is that all it requires is that the "victim" feels like they are in serious danger, even if they are not. If he didn't stab the kid 12 times, he probably would have ended up with a black eye and/or a bloody noise. Now he is probably even more fucked up mentally and is behind in education and will probably never get a proper one. It also sends the message that it is ok to kill people who bully you. The idea isn't that fights like this always result in death. It's that they CAN and sometimes DO. And don't make me pull up the wealth of instances where this has happened. All you need to is google. You can't argue for what would have "probably" happened. You have to account for all reasonable outcomes. Death isn't a reasonable outcome of a high school fight.
An older kid beating up some poor other kid isn't reasonable either.
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On January 10 2012 17:55 nennx wrote:
Death isn't a reasonable outcome of a high school fight.
While true, there is still the possibility of death and more likely serious permanent injury. The bully victim is defending himself to remove or lower those possibilities. Stop generalizing and assuming shit is going to happen this way or that way when there is no real way to know unless it already happened.
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On January 10 2012 17:48 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:40 Uncultured wrote:On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:
[quote]
We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. Are you really trying to argue that you can only use a weapon in a fight if you don't know you're going to be attacked? Or are your saying that defending yourself from possible death with a weapon should never be allowed? Yes, I'm sure the kid was actually going to die. These kinds of fights always result in death. The problem with the law is that all it requires is that the "victim" feels like they are in serious danger, even if they are not. If he didn't stab the kid 12 times, he probably would have ended up with a black eye and/or a bloody noise. Now he is probably even more fucked up mentally and is behind in education and will probably never get a proper one. It also sends the message that it is ok to kill people who bully you.
He also could have wound up with a brain hemorrhage or lacerated spleen. You can't just say "Well I don't think he was likely to have been killed." You have to take into account all reasonably likely outcomes. As for your last statement, the incident is just as likely to make bullies stop because hey, you know what, you might just get %#!$!#% stabbed for picking on a kid now...so yea, not very likely since we're all into probability now.
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On January 10 2012 17:57 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:48 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:40 Uncultured wrote:On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:
[quote]
The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. Are you really trying to argue that you can only use a weapon in a fight if you don't know you're going to be attacked? Or are your saying that defending yourself from possible death with a weapon should never be allowed? Yes, I'm sure the kid was actually going to die. These kinds of fights always result in death. The problem with the law is that all it requires is that the "victim" feels like they are in serious danger, even if they are not. If he didn't stab the kid 12 times, he probably would have ended up with a black eye and/or a bloody noise. Now he is probably even more fucked up mentally and is behind in education and will probably never get a proper one. It also sends the message that it is ok to kill people who bully you. And if he was seriously harmed? It's happened in the past and will continue to happen. Saying "he probably would have ended up with..." is a baseless assumption, he could have very well ended up hurt or even killed. It's happened before in cases very similar to this. What he did was wrong, but it's the aggressor's fault this happened and to argue that he was not in danger is just ridiculous.
He wasn't in real danger. Its the aggressor's fault, but that doesn't mean that stabbing someone 12 times is okay either. To argue that it is okay to kill anyone because you feel threatened by them is just as ridiculous (which is what the law says).
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On January 10 2012 17:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
I think nennx is mentally deficient. Not only does he have absolutely no idea of what he's talking about, he's not even trying to bring any sort of a counter-argument to justify his stance. Can we please not think of him as a troll but as an idiot? Thank you.
This just in -- Thinking its not okay to kill someone because they are threatening you makes you an idiot!
Good one bud
How can there be any other counter argument other than its just a completely fucked up law that should never exist.
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Regardless of whether authorities could do better, parents could do better etc. - I still don't accept this being pure self-defense, regardless of his young age. He brought a knife with him. A KNIFE.
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On January 10 2012 18:00 Pleiades wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:55 nennx wrote:
Death isn't a reasonable outcome of a high school fight.
While true, there is still the possibility of death and more likely serious permanent injury. The bully victim is defending himself to remove or lower those possibilities. Stop generalizing and assuming shit is going to happen this way or that way when there is no real way to know unless it already happened.
Anyways, I think we'd know if the kids actually wanted to kill him or whatever. Something tells me the "victim" would have taken quite the pounding after stabbing the "suspect."
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On January 10 2012 18:03 Jamial wrote:
Regardless of whether authorities could do better, parents could do better etc. - I still don't accept this being pure self-defense, regardless of his young age. He brought a knife with him. A KNIFE.
A swiss army knife? Fuck, chances are in most cases the other guy doesn't die, those things are puny. And the other guy was beating on him. Just as possible he ends up seriously injured.
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On January 10 2012 18:03 Jamial wrote:
Regardless of whether authorities could do better, parents could do better etc. - I still don't accept this being pure self-defense, regardless of his young age. He brought a knife with him. A KNIFE.
He was up against someone stronger than himself, you suggesting he stand up and try to fight back? Would that be self defense to you? That would be some pretty shitty self defense imo.
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wow some people in this thread actually defend this murder...
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On January 10 2012 18:05 isleyofthenorth wrote:
wow some people in this thread actually defend this murder...
It wasn't murder.
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On January 10 2012 18:05 dinmsab wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:03 Jamial wrote:
Regardless of whether authorities could do better, parents could do better etc. - I still don't accept this being pure self-defense, regardless of his young age. He brought a knife with him. A KNIFE. He was up against someone stronger than himself, you suggesting he stand up and try to fight back? Would that be self defense to you? That would be some pretty shitty self defense imo.
What, would you rather stab someone to death and ruin a bunch of people's lives than get beat up a little bit?
What kind of fucked up world do we live in, seriously?
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EPT
