EPTBully Victim stabbed Bully to Death - Page 17
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Epoch
Canada257 Posts
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
[QUOTE]On January 10 2012 18:05 dinmsab wrote: [QUOTE]On January 10 2012 18:03 Jamial wrote: Regardless of whether authorities could do better, parents could do better etc. - I still don't accept this being pure self-defense, regardless of his young age. He brought a knife with him. A KNIFE.[/QUOTE] He was up against someone stronger than himself, you suggesting he stand up and try to fight back? Would that be self defense to you? That would be some pretty shitty self defense imo.[/QUOTE] What, would you rather stab someone to death and ruin a bunch of people's lives than get beat up a little bit? What kind of fucked up world do we live in, seriously?[/QUOTE} The fact your trying to say the kid should have just let himself get beaten says a lot about how fucked it is... | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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spacemonkeyy
Australia477 Posts
On January 10 2012 18:13 Velr wrote: Ahm.. He sprays them too? What would he have done if the surroundings got angry at him stabbing? Stab them all? Btw: Still waiting for the explanation as to HOW stabbing 12 times is self defense. Once/Twice.. ok.. 12 fucking times? Try this at home against some meatball and tell me thats "affectual" or "selfdefense"... Thats stabbing to kill and nothing else. He's 14 years old- have you ever been forced into a fight you don't want to and there so much sheer rage/adrenaline/fright, he wasn't counting he just wanted the bully to stop attacking him. | ||
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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isleyofthenorth
Austria894 Posts
On January 10 2012 18:07 Subversive wrote: The majority of people commenting do. Also its not murder, say killing at least. And yeah, you're just going to be fighting an uphill battle if you say things like that. yes murder was the worst word i could have used. since the legal definition of "murder" is different. But still. You cant say it was self defence so his killing was 100% justified. Also him bringing a knife is not excusable, that knife only makes it more likely that someone ends up severly injured or dead | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On January 10 2012 18:08 Velr wrote: This... "Protecting yourself" ... With a knive you got on you for that intent, is allready "borderline" (just get pepperspray or some other not as leathel self defensetool). By stabbing someone even once you are accepting the dead of your "opponent". Stabbing 12 times? Thats murder. Ask yourself this: What if he would have taken a gun and shot 12 times at the guy? Would that also be selfdefense?... 1.) Knives are a lot easier to get than pepperspray or chemical mace or tasers or stun guns. Most households have knives and if not, they can be easily bought and/or even found. It's not as much a question of intent for use as it is a question of ease of access. 2.) "By stabbing someone even once you are accepting the dead of your 'opponent'" Sorry I don't quite understand what point you are trying to make. But when you're untrained and just waving a knife around at a guy beating on you, chances are you're not going to land an incapacitating blow on your first shot if you're already concussed from blows to the head. Or even your second or third shots. It's very possible, if not even likely that he couldn't incapacitate his "opponent" until many more stabs were dealt. Remember, they make no mention of the location, depth, or severity of the stabs. Getting poked in the arm by a knife or cut in the side is a lot less serious than being stabbed through the rib cage. 3.) As long as you didn't kill your assailant after you had secured/restrained/controlled him then it is self defense. 4.) It's not murder. He made a decision to carry a knife under extreme duress and then used it only after doing everything he could in his power to avoid a confrontation. Including running away and taking blows while doing so. | ||
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spacemonkeyy
Australia477 Posts
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On January 10 2012 18:18 InFdude wrote: I was focusing more on why the judge found the kid inocent - she said it was ok for the kid to stab them because he felt threatened.And he had the knife on him with the obvious intent to stab people.You can really stretch that in future such cases. And the story seems really biased to me. He had been harrased for over 1 year so he thought exactly on that day he'd get killed?I don't think so.And even if he didn't fear being killed I don't think death is a suitable punishment.Especially considering the bullies were probably kids themselves so they could have just been going through a phase and I really don't think we should encourage people to deliver such a harsh punishment just because they felt threatened. The only obvious intent he had was to defend himself. If he intended to kill the bully he wouldn't have bothered telling the bully to stay away. How isn't that obvious? | ||
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psheldr
Germany32 Posts
Edit: She was born in 1994 and she already hanged herself. I feel old. | ||
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On January 10 2012 18:18 InFdude wrote: I was focusing more on why the judge found the kid inocent - she said it was ok for the kid to stab them because he felt threatened.And he had the knife on him with the obvious intent to stab people.You can really stretch that in future such cases. And the story seems really biased to me. He had been harrased for over 1 year so he thought exactly on that day he'd get killed?I don't think so.And even if he didn't fear being killed but rather handcipped or just beat up I don't think death is a suitable punishment.Especially considering the bullies were probably kids themselves so they could have just been going through a phase and I really don't think we should encourage people to deliver such a harsh punishment just because they felt threatened. Again, "Threatened" is not used lightly in the sense that if you feel a bit of danger, you're entitled to stab someone. Here, he was "Threatened" with immediate bodily harm in the form of someone trying to hurt him. You have to remember. He did not stab the bully while the bully was making threats on a bus. He did not plan out a hit on the bully to target him on his way back from school. When he found out about the fight, he actively tried to avoid it despite having the knife. Look at the circumstances under which he finally used it. He did not have malicious intent to stab anyone. Your whole argument basically revolves around a flawed understanding of what the word "Threatened" means in this context. | ||
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isleyofthenorth
Austria894 Posts
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing. Pretty messed up | ||
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spacemonkeyy
Australia477 Posts
On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote: A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence. 14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing. Pretty messed up It wasn't manslaughter.. he acted in self defense. Imagine this happened to a mugger- essentially the same situation in the eyes of the law. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On January 10 2012 16:56 tripper688 wrote: While I am not a parent, I have dealt and am dealing with depression. Saying that if a kid is depressed then there is nothing the parents can do simply isn't true. What is true is that it's extremely hard to deal with properly and most people fail. Again, key word there being fail. In most cases, it's not an issue of "Nothing could have been done" but rather cases of "Oh this should have been done differently, I should have seen this, you should have done that, etc." You said it yourself, it comes down to interpretation and recognizing the signs. While you may say it's too much to ask for parents to recognize signs of bullying and know how to help or know how to seek the right venues for help, I don't think this is the case. In effect, you are essentially saying that the victim who may or may not have been depressed was at fault because he didn't do enough to get the help he needed from the people who should have been protecting and watching over him. No. You only have so much control. You cannot control people. Somethings you can control; other things you cannot. You can be the best driver in the world. Always obeying the law. Never had an accident. It's winter and the roads are icy. You give yourself ample time to stop at the red light. Car comes to a halt. All of the sudden BOOM! Someone blindsides you because there was black ice on the road. No control over that accident. If you think you can control your child to perfection. You're in for it. Not only that, At 14 tweens can be pretty secretive. From the little info we have, it sounds like he kept to himself well. All bottled up inside. _ Kids are picking up things faster than ever nowdays with all the exposure of sex and violence. Then again, I knew ton of kids with switch blades, butterfly knives and swiss army knives by the time I was that age. In any case, kids deal with all kinds of shit at that age including identity crisis. They don't really know who they are and are exploring. _ Most people are abysmal at reading body language let alone detecting depression. Many people I've spoken to say they've been through depression. Then I ask them about the degree of depression they were diagnosed with? In some instances they look at me puzzled or in other cases they say they were never diagnosed. It's not always depression and no, you don't necessarily have to get diagnosed. What I am saying is that mild cases are very different from severe. If it interfers with your everyday life for a really long time and you aren't functional. Houston, we have a problem. I see mild cases as only the beginning. In other words, it's a mood swing of being down. It can persist for several weeks, but the person is still highly functional. They cope with it. It isn't really a problem. A lot of people who are depressed don't want help or know how to help themselves. That and it's REALLY HARD for them to talk about it. Not for me. I've always been an open book. It's how I deal with it. I know I've always hated medication and don't want it. That's just me. People throw around the word depression too much. Same could be said about addiction. It's a total piss off to those who are truly, severely suffering from depression and addiction. There are many false signals out there and misread signs. No one has that shit down and before you know it. It's too late. What you think is the problem is usually only a symptom of the problem. Depression is a maze. You are the rat that they are experimenting on and you have to ultimately find your way out of the maze yourself. The only thing other people can do is offer their support. They're your cheerleaders while your busy trying to find your way out of the maze. That is it. It's much more complex. I'm very well studied in these semiotics and I wouldn't even consider myself an expert when it comes to reading human behavior let alone talking about my own depression and I'm a fucking writer/actor/director for goodness sake. An expert? Not by a long shot. I can only speak from my experience. Once again, we are at no liberty to judge his parents based on all the information we have. None. We cannot change what's happened. All we can do is address the now. Hopefully the kid gets the help he needs. A shrink cannot force him to talk the same way a parent can't. They will have to take preventable measures now because he stabbed and killed the boy, but how willingly he will go along with it is anyone's guess. He wasn't at fault if you read the pdf in it's entirety. I am not placing the fault on him. There are many forms of bullying: gossip, rumors, internet, insults, derogatory terms, slurs, racism, humiliation, body language, spacial, intimidation, bossing, blackmail, manipulation, peer pressure, physical, etc. All these terms fit can fit under the act of bullying. Everyone gets bullied no matter where. How you deal with it is another story. | ||
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frontliner2
Netherlands844 Posts
You'll be surprised how fast you'll become a great street fighter if you fight everyday or so. This is how you escape being bullied (for me). They will fear your dedication to always kick their ass when they go to far. Go all out on them.... I almost stabbed a bully once but glad I refrained to threatening. I sympathyse with the bully victim but murder is never justifyable. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
Would have been exactly the same outcome if it were between 2 adults. Fact that they were kids makes it no different. Moral of the story: Don't instigate violence - ever. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote: A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence. 14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing. Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
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