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Bully Victim stabbed Bully to Death - Page 17

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Epoch
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada257 Posts
January 10 2012 09:15 GMT
#321
I really don't mind this at all. The bully got what he asked for. Let this be a lesson to anyone else who seeks to be a dick head.
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
January 10 2012 09:17 GMT
#322
I also find it quite amusing how many people are unable to comprehend what prolonged mental stress and trauma can do to a person and how it can affect their judgement, and similarly how the "fight or flight" response will change their behaviour to a much more instinctual one, as someone has pointed out some pages ago. It is absolute bullshit how people think this is premeditated murder when the victim was in a state of mind so altered by the aforementioned two factors, both of which caused by the aggressor in a direct manner. Actually it's not amusing. It's sad.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
tokicheese
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada739 Posts
January 10 2012 09:17 GMT
#323
[QUOTE]On January 10 2012 18:06 nennx wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 10 2012 18:05 dinmsab wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 10 2012 18:03 Jamial wrote:
Regardless of whether authorities could do better, parents could do better etc. - I still don't accept this being pure self-defense, regardless of his young age. He brought a knife with him. A KNIFE.[/QUOTE]

He was up against someone stronger than himself, you suggesting he stand up and try to fight back? Would that be self defense to you? That would be some pretty shitty self defense imo.[/QUOTE]

What, would you rather stab someone to death and ruin a bunch of people's lives than get beat up a little bit?

What kind of fucked up world do we live in, seriously?[/QUOTE}
The fact your trying to say the kid should have just let himself get beaten says a lot about how fucked it is...
t༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ށ
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
January 10 2012 09:17 GMT
#324
IMO the fault is on the bully's parents because of failing at being good parents, to begin with.
Revolutionist fan
spacemonkeyy
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia477 Posts
January 10 2012 09:18 GMT
#325
On January 10 2012 18:13 Velr wrote:
Ahm.. He sprays them too?
What would he have done if the surroundings got angry at him stabbing? Stab them all?


Btw: Still waiting for the explanation as to HOW stabbing 12 times is self defense. Once/Twice.. ok.. 12 fucking times? Try this at home against some meatball and tell me thats "affectual" or "selfdefense"...
Thats stabbing to kill and nothing else.


He's 14 years old- have you ever been forced into a fight you don't want to and there so much sheer rage/adrenaline/fright, he wasn't counting he just wanted the bully to stop attacking him.
InFdude
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Bulgaria619 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 09:20:24
January 10 2012 09:18 GMT
#326
--- Nuked ---
isleyofthenorth
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Austria894 Posts
January 10 2012 09:19 GMT
#327
On January 10 2012 18:07 Subversive wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 18:05 isleyofthenorth wrote:
wow some people in this thread actually defend this murder...

The majority of people commenting do. Also its not murder, say killing at least. And yeah, you're just going to be fighting an uphill battle if you say things like that.


yes murder was the worst word i could have used. since the legal definition of "murder" is different.

But still. You cant say it was self defence so his killing was 100% justified. Also him bringing a knife is not excusable, that knife only makes it more likely that someone ends up severly injured or dead
tripper688
Profile Joined January 2011
United States569 Posts
January 10 2012 09:19 GMT
#328
On January 10 2012 18:08 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 17:58 nennx wrote:
On January 10 2012 17:54 -y0shi- wrote:
On January 10 2012 17:50 nennx wrote:
On January 10 2012 17:35 kittensrcute wrote:
On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:
On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:
On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:
On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:
On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:
[quote]

Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground.

At least murder rates are down. LMFAO


Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now.


Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated?


He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened.


Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you.

so if a group of kids are beating you and you have a knife on you for self defense because you've been constantly bullied, you wouldn't use the knife?


Actually, a group of kids weren't beating him, one person was and 2 others were encouraging him to continue. And no, I wouldn't kill someone just because they were beating me up, and If I did for whatever reason, I wouldn't expect to get away with no charges.


So if someone who is bigger and older then you and does fighting sports starts beating you up youll just take it?

He did what he had to do, he fought back to defend himself, nothing else. He did what he had to do to protect himself.


I would at least try to fight back or maybe just take it. I find it ridiculous that stabbing someone 12 times is considered protecting yourself. This goes a bit beyond protecting yourself, and should be treated this way.



This...

"Protecting yourself" ... With a knive you got on you for that intent, is allready "borderline" (just get pepperspray or some other not as leathel self defensetool). By stabbing someone even once you are accepting the dead of your "opponent".

Stabbing 12 times? Thats murder.


Ask yourself this:
What if he would have taken a gun and shot 12 times at the guy? Would that also be selfdefense?...


1.) Knives are a lot easier to get than pepperspray or chemical mace or tasers or stun guns. Most households have knives and if not, they can be easily bought and/or even found. It's not as much a question of intent for use as it is a question of ease of access.

2.) "By stabbing someone even once you are accepting the dead of your 'opponent'" Sorry I don't quite understand what point you are trying to make. But when you're untrained and just waving a knife around at a guy beating on you, chances are you're not going to land an incapacitating blow on your first shot if you're already concussed from blows to the head. Or even your second or third shots. It's very possible, if not even likely that he couldn't incapacitate his "opponent" until many more stabs were dealt. Remember, they make no mention of the location, depth, or severity of the stabs. Getting poked in the arm by a knife or cut in the side is a lot less serious than being stabbed through the rib cage.

3.) As long as you didn't kill your assailant after you had secured/restrained/controlled him then it is self defense.

4.) It's not murder. He made a decision to carry a knife under extreme duress and then used it only after doing everything he could in his power to avoid a confrontation. Including running away and taking blows while doing so.
"Excuse me I gotta do some vacuuming really fast *vrrrrrrmmmmmmmmm*" Day[9]
spacemonkeyy
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia477 Posts
January 10 2012 09:21 GMT
#329
Hell he could have pulled out a sawn off shot gun and blew his head off and it would still be self defense
Oktyabr
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore2234 Posts
January 10 2012 09:22 GMT
#330
On January 10 2012 18:18 InFdude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 18:07 tripper688 wrote:
On January 10 2012 18:06 InFdude wrote:
I don't agree with the judge.And what kind of a stupid law is that?So basically any time I'm in even a small beef with someone as long as I think I might get hurt it's ok for me to go on a killig spree.Kid should go to jail but that's just my oppinion.


Say what? The kid didn't stab someone over a beef because he thought he might get hurt. He stabbed someone who was chasing him with the intent to do bodily harm by kicking his ass and repeatedly SUCKER PUNCHING HIS HEAD AS HE WAS RUNNING AWAY.

I was focusing more on why the judge found the kid inocent - she said it was ok for the kid to stab them because he felt threatened.And he had the knife on him with the obvious intent to stab people.You can really stretch that in future such cases.

And the story seems really biased to me. He had been harrased for over 1 year so he thought exactly on that day he'd get killed?I don't think so.And even if he didn't fear being killed I don't think death is a suitable punishment.Especially considering the bullies were probably kids themselves so they could have just been going through a phase and I really don't think we should encourage people to deliver such a harsh punishment just because they felt threatened.


The only obvious intent he had was to defend himself. If he intended to kill the bully he wouldn't have bothered telling the bully to stay away. How isn't that obvious?




psheldr
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany32 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 09:25:32
January 10 2012 09:23 GMT
#331
This ruling is probably influenced by this incident (anyone heard about/remember this?): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Phoebe_Prince

Edit: She was born in 1994 and she already hanged herself. I feel old.
InFdude
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Bulgaria619 Posts
January 10 2012 09:25 GMT
#332
--- Nuked ---
tripper688
Profile Joined January 2011
United States569 Posts
January 10 2012 09:26 GMT
#333
On January 10 2012 18:18 InFdude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 18:07 tripper688 wrote:
On January 10 2012 18:06 InFdude wrote:
I don't agree with the judge.And what kind of a stupid law is that?So basically any time I'm in even a small beef with someone as long as I think I might get hurt it's ok for me to go on a killig spree.Kid should go to jail but that's just my oppinion.


Say what? The kid didn't stab someone over a beef because he thought he might get hurt. He stabbed someone who was chasing him with the intent to do bodily harm by kicking his ass and repeatedly SUCKER PUNCHING HIS HEAD AS HE WAS RUNNING AWAY.

I was focusing more on why the judge found the kid inocent - she said it was ok for the kid to stab them because he felt threatened.And he had the knife on him with the obvious intent to stab people.You can really stretch that in future such cases.

And the story seems really biased to me. He had been harrased for over 1 year so he thought exactly on that day he'd get killed?I don't think so.And even if he didn't fear being killed but rather handcipped or just beat up I don't think death is a suitable punishment.Especially considering the bullies were probably kids themselves so they could have just been going through a phase and I really don't think we should encourage people to deliver such a harsh punishment just because they felt threatened.


Again, "Threatened" is not used lightly in the sense that if you feel a bit of danger, you're entitled to stab someone. Here, he was "Threatened" with immediate bodily harm in the form of someone trying to hurt him. You have to remember. He did not stab the bully while the bully was making threats on a bus. He did not plan out a hit on the bully to target him on his way back from school. When he found out about the fight, he actively tried to avoid it despite having the knife. Look at the circumstances under which he finally used it. He did not have malicious intent to stab anyone. Your whole argument basically revolves around a flawed understanding of what the word "Threatened" means in this context.
"Excuse me I gotta do some vacuuming really fast *vrrrrrrmmmmmmmmm*" Day[9]
isleyofthenorth
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Austria894 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 09:26:47
January 10 2012 09:26 GMT
#334
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.

Pretty messed up
spacemonkeyy
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia477 Posts
January 10 2012 09:27 GMT
#335
On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.

Pretty messed up


It wasn't manslaughter.. he acted in self defense.

Imagine this happened to a mugger- essentially the same situation in the eyes of the law.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 09:44:21
January 10 2012 09:34 GMT
#336
On January 10 2012 16:56 tripper688 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 16:44 StarStruck wrote:
On January 10 2012 16:35 tripper688 wrote:
On January 10 2012 16:22 StarStruck wrote:
On January 10 2012 16:04 tripper688 wrote:
On January 10 2012 15:22 StarStruck wrote:
On January 10 2012 15:14 KryptoStorm wrote:
On January 10 2012 15:11 acker wrote:
On January 10 2012 15:10 KryptoStorm wrote:
Bullying *sigh*. I can't even begin to try to explain how much I hate bullying, but more specifically to this case, some may see it as justice, i'm kind of on the line, yes the bully deserved something, but I would rather see him educated on the seriousness of bullying and the effects it can have on people rather than being murdered.


Failure of the authorities, not the kid in question, IMO. And before that, the parents of the bully in question.

Still true, though.


I blame parents most of the time, ofcourse some people are born 'different/disturbed/blablabla' but it is up to their parents to help them..


A parent cannot help their child when they are unaware of what's going on. It's all about communication. Even if they noticed something was wrong with the boy it would probably still be hard to get an answer out of him as to what was really going on especially at his age.

It's not so simple and straight forward as you make it out to be.

The kid probably thought he had no outs. He was backed in a corner. Not fun being stuck in a corner. This was obviously going on for sometime as he was carrying a concealed weapon.

What's the morale of the story? Stop bullying people. Treat them like you would want to be treated and everything is strawberries.


Isn't that a just a nicer way of saying parents failed to realize their kid was a bully or being bullied? Key word there being failed? I mean unless the guy had some serious psychological issues aka a budding sociopath or the like, it's first and foremost the job of the parents to help fix this behavior. After that, it becomes an issue for the school and then the law. The fact that this whole thing went down the way it did is just so sad because literally everyone involved failed. Except for the kid with the knife.


No.

If a child doesn't want to speak out it's pretty hard to find out what's going on even when a parent notices changes in attitude. In many cases they think their child is just going through puberty and rebelling against them.

Bullying can have a traumatizing effect on a child and affect them psychologically. Parents cannot fix or give help unless asked for it. Like I said. It comes down to good communication between both parent and child. Here's the thing. If someone's severely depressed good fucking luck with that. If you push a kid long enough. Eventually they will snap.

This kid did.

I think those kids broke him down mentally. In either case, its going to be a long road for him. Lots of counselling, anger management and mental health therapy.

Not fun.


I disagree. As much as you say parents can't help unless it's asked for, that simply isn't true. If they don't know how to reach their child or how to help, then it's their job to ask and find out how. It's their job to recognize the signs and to get help for their child if needed. Just as much as it is the job of the parents of the bully to realize what their child is doing to others and to try and fix that as well.



You obviously aren't a parent, or never dealt with depression. Unfortunately for me. *raises hand*

Adolescent kids are pretty hard to break-in especially when they are closing themselves off from the rest of the world. Then we have a thing called depression. Oh depression. That's a biggie. Severe depression can be a life-long struggle and the only way to start the healing process is to let others in. Not everyone can read body language and the other semiotic signals of someone crying for help. It comes down to interpretation. Just like your intrepretation is very different from mine.

Bullying isn't always so obvious. In this case, we have to consider every detail and like I said before. It's a shame the bus driver didn't step in or notice spitballs with cream and the other debachery happening in his/her bus.


While I am not a parent, I have dealt and am dealing with depression. Saying that if a kid is depressed then there is nothing the parents can do simply isn't true. What is true is that it's extremely hard to deal with properly and most people fail. Again, key word there being fail. In most cases, it's not an issue of "Nothing could have been done" but rather cases of "Oh this should have been done differently, I should have seen this, you should have done that, etc." You said it yourself, it comes down to interpretation and recognizing the signs. While you may say it's too much to ask for parents to recognize signs of bullying and know how to help or know how to seek the right venues for help, I don't think this is the case. In effect, you are essentially saying that the victim who may or may not have been depressed was at fault because he didn't do enough to get the help he needed from the people who should have been protecting and watching over him.


No.

You only have so much control. You cannot control people. Somethings you can control; other things you cannot. You can be the best driver in the world. Always obeying the law. Never had an accident. It's winter and the roads are icy. You give yourself ample time to stop at the red light. Car comes to a halt. All of the sudden BOOM! Someone blindsides you because there was black ice on the road. No control over that accident.

If you think you can control your child to perfection. You're in for it.


Not only that,

At 14 tweens can be pretty secretive. From the little info we have, it sounds like he kept to himself well. All bottled up inside.

_

Kids are picking up things faster than ever nowdays with all the exposure of sex and violence. Then again, I knew ton of kids with switch blades, butterfly knives and swiss army knives by the time I was that age. In any case, kids deal with all kinds of shit at that age including identity crisis. They don't really know who they are and are exploring.

_

Most people are abysmal at reading body language let alone detecting depression. Many people I've spoken to say they've been through depression. Then I ask them about the degree of depression they were diagnosed with? In some instances they look at me puzzled or in other cases they say they were never diagnosed. It's not always depression and no, you don't necessarily have to get diagnosed. What I am saying is that mild cases are very different from severe. If it interfers with your everyday life for a really long time and you aren't functional. Houston, we have a problem. I see mild cases as only the beginning. In other words, it's a mood swing of being down. It can persist for several weeks, but the person is still highly functional. They cope with it. It isn't really a problem.

A lot of people who are depressed don't want help or know how to help themselves. That and it's REALLY HARD for them to talk about it. Not for me. I've always been an open book. It's how I deal with it. I know I've always hated medication and don't want it. That's just me. People throw around the word depression too much. Same could be said about addiction. It's a total piss off to those who are truly, severely suffering from depression and addiction.
There are many false signals out there and misread signs. No one has that shit down and before you know it. It's too late. What you think is the problem is usually only a symptom of the problem. Depression is a maze. You are the rat that they are experimenting on and you have to ultimately find your way out of the maze yourself. The only thing other people can do is offer their support. They're your cheerleaders while your busy trying to find your way out of the maze. That is it.

It's much more complex.

I'm very well studied in these semiotics and I wouldn't even consider myself an expert when it comes to reading human behavior let alone talking about my own depression and I'm a fucking writer/actor/director for goodness sake. An expert? Not by a long shot. I can only speak from my experience.

Once again, we are at no liberty to judge his parents based on all the information we have. None. We cannot change what's happened. All we can do is address the now. Hopefully the kid gets the help he needs. A shrink cannot force him to talk the same way a parent can't. They will have to take preventable measures now because he stabbed and killed the boy, but how willingly he will go along with it is anyone's guess.

He wasn't at fault if you read the pdf in it's entirety. I am not placing the fault on him.

There are many forms of bullying: gossip, rumors, internet, insults, derogatory terms, slurs, racism, humiliation, body language, spacial, intimidation, bossing, blackmail, manipulation, peer pressure, physical, etc. All these terms fit can fit under the act of bullying. Everyone gets bullied no matter where.

How you deal with it is another story.
frontliner2
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Netherlands844 Posts
January 10 2012 09:35 GMT
#337
Being bullied myself I can only say it's bad to kill your Bully. What you should do is train and ALWAYS fight your bully and never back down, make them fear your dedication to self defense, always pursue even if that means getting your ass kicked time from time.

You'll be surprised how fast you'll become a great street fighter if you fight everyday or so. This is how you escape being bullied (for me). They will fear your dedication to always kick their ass when they go to far. Go all out on them....

I almost stabbed a bully once but glad I refrained to threatening. I sympathyse with the bully victim but murder is never justifyable.
I had a bad dream. Don't be afraid, bad dreams are only dreams. What a time you chose to be born in...
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
January 10 2012 09:38 GMT
#338
He anticipated GBH and responded with appropriate response. Kid did no wrong.

Would have been exactly the same outcome if it were between 2 adults. Fact that they were kids makes it no different.

Moral of the story: Don't instigate violence - ever.
tripper688
Profile Joined January 2011
United States569 Posts
January 10 2012 09:38 GMT
#339
On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.

Pretty messed up


Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter?
"Excuse me I gotta do some vacuuming really fast *vrrrrrrmmmmmmmmm*" Day[9]
Pillage
Profile Joined July 2011
United States804 Posts
January 10 2012 09:38 GMT
#340
I'm going to trust the judge on this because I don't know a damn thing about what happened
"Power has no limits." -Tiberius
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