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On January 10 2012 18:35 frontliner2 wrote:
Being bullied myself I can only say it's bad to kill your Bully. What you should do is train and ALWAYS fight your bully and never back down, make them fear your dedication to self defense, always pursue even if that means getting your ass kicked time from time.
You'll be surprised how fast you'll become a great street fighter if you fight everyday or so. This is how you escape being bullied (for me). They will fear your dedication to always kick their ass when they go to far. Go all out on them....
I almost stabbed a bully once but glad I refrained to threatening. I sympathyse with the bully victim but murder is never justifyable.
Christ, this isn't murder.
People who have no idea how the legal process works should stop saying how messed up it is.
Also, your advice? Horrible, horrible advice.
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On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter?
him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn
i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up
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On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up
He was told BEFOREHAND that he was going to get beaten up. =.=
Not everyone has killer biceps or a sick right punch to rely on.
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Some bullys are just too stupid to know when to stop. He was killed because he was dumb
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i actually think its quite intelligent to have a weapon to deter attackers if they already announced they gonna attack u?
(not saying carrying a weapon all the time is fine or using it per se)
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On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up
In 94 I knew many people who carried knives around because it was the thing. Good utility and protection.
By the time we got to jr. high - high school it was all about protection. I knew quite a few guys in the mafia and gangs. :/
That and it wasn't anticipation. The kid tried to avoid confrontation as much as possible. Read the damn pdf.
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On January 10 2012 18:46 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up He was told BEFOREHAND that he was going to get beaten up. =.= Not everyone has killer biceps or a sick right punch to rely on.
ok then i got it wrong, but thats almost as bad. equipping yourself with a lethal weapon because someone will beat you up.
Im kind of disgusted by all the opininions in this thread that consider someone who stabs 12 times with a knife(no matter the circumstances) totally innocent
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On January 10 2012 18:34 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 16:56 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 16:44 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 16:35 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 16:22 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 16:04 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 15:22 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 15:14 KryptoStorm wrote:On January 10 2012 15:11 acker wrote:On January 10 2012 15:10 KryptoStorm wrote:
Bullying *sigh*. I can't even begin to try to explain how much I hate bullying, but more specifically to this case, some may see it as justice, i'm kind of on the line, yes the bully deserved something, but I would rather see him educated on the seriousness of bullying and the effects it can have on people rather than being murdered. Failure of the authorities, not the kid in question, IMO. And before that, the parents of the bully in question. Still true, though. I blame parents most of the time, ofcourse some people are born 'different/disturbed/blablabla' but it is up to their parents to help them.. A parent cannot help their child when they are unaware of what's going on. It's all about communication. Even if they noticed something was wrong with the boy it would probably still be hard to get an answer out of him as to what was really going on especially at his age.It's not so simple and straight forward as you make it out to be. The kid probably thought he had no outs. He was backed in a corner. Not fun being stuck in a corner. This was obviously going on for sometime as he was carrying a concealed weapon. What's the morale of the story? Stop bullying people. Treat them like you would want to be treated and everything is strawberries. Isn't that a just a nicer way of saying parents failed to realize their kid was a bully or being bullied? Key word there being failed? I mean unless the guy had some serious psychological issues aka a budding sociopath or the like, it's first and foremost the job of the parents to help fix this behavior. After that, it becomes an issue for the school and then the law. The fact that this whole thing went down the way it did is just so sad because literally everyone involved failed. Except for the kid with the knife. No. If a child doesn't want to speak out it's pretty hard to find out what's going on even when a parent notices changes in attitude. In many cases they think their child is just going through puberty and rebelling against them. Bullying can have a traumatizing effect on a child and affect them psychologically. Parents cannot fix or give help unless asked for it. Like I said. It comes down to good communication between both parent and child. Here's the thing. If someone's severely depressed good fucking luck with that. If you push a kid long enough. Eventually they will snap. This kid did. I think those kids broke him down mentally. In either case, its going to be a long road for him. Lots of counselling, anger management and mental health therapy. Not fun. I disagree. As much as you say parents can't help unless it's asked for, that simply isn't true. If they don't know how to reach their child or how to help, then it's their job to ask and find out how. It's their job to recognize the signs and to get help for their child if needed. Just as much as it is the job of the parents of the bully to realize what their child is doing to others and to try and fix that as well. You obviously aren't a parent, or never dealt with depression. Unfortunately for me. *raises hand* Adolescent kids are pretty hard to break-in especially when they are closing themselves off from the rest of the world. Then we have a thing called depression. Oh depression. That's a biggie. Severe depression can be a life-long struggle and the only way to start the healing process is to let others in. Not everyone can read body language and the other semiotic signals of someone crying for help. It comes down to interpretation. Just like your intrepretation is very different from mine. Bullying isn't always so obvious. In this case, we have to consider every detail and like I said before. It's a shame the bus driver didn't step in or notice spitballs with cream and the other debachery happening in his/her bus. While I am not a parent, I have dealt and am dealing with depression. Saying that if a kid is depressed then there is nothing the parents can do simply isn't true. What is true is that it's extremely hard to deal with properly and most people fail. Again, key word there being fail. In most cases, it's not an issue of "Nothing could have been done" but rather cases of "Oh this should have been done differently, I should have seen this, you should have done that, etc." You said it yourself, it comes down to interpretation and recognizing the signs. While you may say it's too much to ask for parents to recognize signs of bullying and know how to help or know how to seek the right venues for help, I don't think this is the case. In effect, you are essentially saying that the victim who may or may not have been depressed was at fault because he didn't do enough to get the help he needed from the people who should have been protecting and watching over him. No. You only have so much control. You cannot control people. Somethings you can control; other things you cannot. You can be the best driver in the world. Always obeying the law. Never had an accident. It's winter and the roads are icy. You give yourself ample time to stop at the red light. Car comes to a halt. All of the sudden BOOM! Someone blindsides you because there was black ice on the road. No control over that accident. If you think you can control your child to perfection. You're in for it. Not only that, At 14 tweens can be pretty secretive. From the little info we have, it sounds like he kept to himself well. All bottled up inside. _ Kids are picking up things faster than ever nowdays with all the exposure of sex and violence. Then again, I knew ton of kids with switch blades, butterfly knives and swiss army knives by the time I was that age. In any case, kids deal with all kinds of shit at that age including identity crisis. They don't really know who they are and are exploring. _ Most people are abysmal at reading body language let alone detecting depression. Many people I've spoken to say they've been through depression. Then I ask them about the degree of depression they were diagnosed with? In some instances they look at me puzzled or in other cases they say they were never diagnosed. It's not always depression and no, you don't necessarily have to get diagnosed. What I am saying is that mild cases are very different from severe. If it interfers with your everyday life for a really long time and you aren't functional. Houston, we have a problem. I see mild cases as only the beginning. In other words, it's a mood swing of being down. It can persist for several weeks, but the person is still highly functional. They cope with it. It isn't really a problem. A lot of people who are depressed don't want help or know how to help themselves. That and it's REALLY HARD for them to talk about it. Not for me. I've always been an open book. It's how I deal with it. I know I've always hated medication and don't want it. That's just me. People throw around the word depression too much. Same could be said about addiction. It's a total piss off to those who are truly, severely suffering from depression and addiction. There are many false signals out there and misread signs. No one has that shit down and before you know it. It's too late. What you think is the problem is usually only a symptom of the problem. Depression is a maze. You are the rat that they are experimenting on and you have to ultimately find your way out of the maze yourself. The only thing other people can do is provide their support. That is it. It's much more complex. I'm very well studied in these semiotics and I wouldn't even consider myself an expert when it comes to reading human behavior let alone talking about my own depression and I'm a fucking writer/actor/director for goodness sake. An expert? Not by a long shot. I can only speak from my experience. Once again, we are at no liberty to judge his parents based on all the information we have. None. We cannot change what's happened. All we can do is address the now. Hopefully the kid gets the help he needs. A shrink cannot force him to talk the same way a parent can't. They will have to take preventable measures now because he stabbed and killed the boy, but how willingly he will go along with it is anyone's guess. He wasn't at fault if you read the pdf in it's entirety. I am not placing the fault on him. There are many forms of bullying: gossip, rumors, internet, insults, derogatory terms, slurs, racism, humiliation, body language, spacial, intimidation, bossing, blackmail, manipulation, peer pressure, physical, etc. All these terms fit can fit under the act of bullying. Everyone gets bullied no matter where. How you deal with it is another story.
You haven't actually addressed the point I was making. I'm not saying it's easy or even reasonable to expect this from parents but they have to get better at recognizing and dealing with the signs and symptoms of bullying, abuse, depression (and any other form of mental illness). Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but what I said is still the truth. Whether or not the child cooperates by spilling their guts to mommy and daddy, whether or not mommy and daddy are gifted with being able to visually interpret body language correctly, in the end, you're the parent. You're the one responsible for the health and well being of the child. Sometimes it's basically an impossible situation but that's what it is. Arguing that it's not a failure for parents to not recognize signs and symptoms of their kids being abused or suffering severe depression is about as silly as arguing that the kid didn't actually kill anyone because the manslaughter was justified. Maybe it's unreasonable to expect parents to be able to do that but it would sure go a long way towards dealing with these issues.
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The article has maybe 200 words.
I don't think we have enough information to pass judgement on either of those guys.
Could be justified, could be not, who knows.
We certainly don't.
As someone who has been bullied in high school i can somewhat relate to the guy who stabbed the bully, but that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.
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On January 10 2012 18:48 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:46 S_SienZ wrote:On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up He was told BEFOREHAND that he was going to get beaten up. =.= Not everyone has killer biceps or a sick right punch to rely on. ok then i got it wrong, but thats almost as bad. equipping yourself with a lethal weapon because someone will beat you up. Im kind of disgusted by all the opininions in this thread that consider someone who stabs 12 times with a knife(no matter the circumstances) totally innocent
The kid believed his life was endanger. Kids are immoral. -_- If you read all the posts and the pdf thoroughly perhaps you wouldn't be so hardpressed on what actually transpired.
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On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up
Where is it stated he was striking 12 times at lethal spots? 12 stab wounds = 12 wounds inflicted by a knife. If we're in a wild brawl and I pull out a small pocketknife and start waving it around, chances are that you will pick up a dozen wounds. In fact being that I'm much smaller than you and already disoriented from head trauma, there's a fairly good chance those wounds wouldn't even be fatal.
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On January 10 2012 18:48 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:46 S_SienZ wrote:On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up He was told BEFOREHAND that he was going to get beaten up. =.= Not everyone has killer biceps or a sick right punch to rely on. ok then i got it wrong, but thats almost as bad. equipping yourself with a lethal weapon because someone will beat you up. Im kind of disgusted by all the opininions in this thread that consider someone who stabs 12 times with a knife(no matter the circumstances) totally innocent
He's not totally innocent. He just has a valid full defence.
Way in general modern legal system works:
Was a crime committed (Check for mens rea and actus reus) > Does he have a defence (Full [Self-defence] or Partial [Insanity / Diminished Responsibility] > Conviction with sentence
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On January 10 2012 18:51 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:48 isleyofthenorth wrote:On January 10 2012 18:46 S_SienZ wrote:On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up He was told BEFOREHAND that he was going to get beaten up. =.= Not everyone has killer biceps or a sick right punch to rely on. ok then i got it wrong, but thats almost as bad. equipping yourself with a lethal weapon because someone will beat you up. Im kind of disgusted by all the opininions in this thread that consider someone who stabs 12 times with a knife(no matter the circumstances) totally innocent The kid believed his life was endanger. Kids are immoral. -_- If you read all the posts and the pdf thoroughly perhaps you wouldn't be so hardpressed on what actually transpired.
doesent matter if the kid was afraid that his life was in danger. there is no proof for that.
Also how likely is it that someone who announced that he will beat you up, will actually murder you. noone is that stupid
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if i were to choose between a bully victim suicide and a bully stabbin' i'd take the later everytime. (as being 'better')
if all the bullies would suddenly get stabbed i wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
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On January 10 2012 18:50 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:34 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 16:56 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 16:44 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 16:35 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 16:22 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 16:04 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 15:22 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 15:14 KryptoStorm wrote:On January 10 2012 15:11 acker wrote:
[quote]
Failure of the authorities, not the kid in question, IMO. And before that, the parents of the bully in question.
Still true, though. I blame parents most of the time, ofcourse some people are born 'different/disturbed/blablabla' but it is up to their parents to help them.. A parent cannot help their child when they are unaware of what's going on. It's all about communication. Even if they noticed something was wrong with the boy it would probably still be hard to get an answer out of him as to what was really going on especially at his age.It's not so simple and straight forward as you make it out to be. The kid probably thought he had no outs. He was backed in a corner. Not fun being stuck in a corner. This was obviously going on for sometime as he was carrying a concealed weapon. What's the morale of the story? Stop bullying people. Treat them like you would want to be treated and everything is strawberries. Isn't that a just a nicer way of saying parents failed to realize their kid was a bully or being bullied? Key word there being failed? I mean unless the guy had some serious psychological issues aka a budding sociopath or the like, it's first and foremost the job of the parents to help fix this behavior. After that, it becomes an issue for the school and then the law. The fact that this whole thing went down the way it did is just so sad because literally everyone involved failed. Except for the kid with the knife. No. If a child doesn't want to speak out it's pretty hard to find out what's going on even when a parent notices changes in attitude. In many cases they think their child is just going through puberty and rebelling against them. Bullying can have a traumatizing effect on a child and affect them psychologically. Parents cannot fix or give help unless asked for it. Like I said. It comes down to good communication between both parent and child. Here's the thing. If someone's severely depressed good fucking luck with that. If you push a kid long enough. Eventually they will snap. This kid did. I think those kids broke him down mentally. In either case, its going to be a long road for him. Lots of counselling, anger management and mental health therapy. Not fun. I disagree. As much as you say parents can't help unless it's asked for, that simply isn't true. If they don't know how to reach their child or how to help, then it's their job to ask and find out how. It's their job to recognize the signs and to get help for their child if needed. Just as much as it is the job of the parents of the bully to realize what their child is doing to others and to try and fix that as well. You obviously aren't a parent, or never dealt with depression. Unfortunately for me. *raises hand* Adolescent kids are pretty hard to break-in especially when they are closing themselves off from the rest of the world. Then we have a thing called depression. Oh depression. That's a biggie. Severe depression can be a life-long struggle and the only way to start the healing process is to let others in. Not everyone can read body language and the other semiotic signals of someone crying for help. It comes down to interpretation. Just like your intrepretation is very different from mine. Bullying isn't always so obvious. In this case, we have to consider every detail and like I said before. It's a shame the bus driver didn't step in or notice spitballs with cream and the other debachery happening in his/her bus. While I am not a parent, I have dealt and am dealing with depression. Saying that if a kid is depressed then there is nothing the parents can do simply isn't true. What is true is that it's extremely hard to deal with properly and most people fail. Again, key word there being fail. In most cases, it's not an issue of "Nothing could have been done" but rather cases of "Oh this should have been done differently, I should have seen this, you should have done that, etc." You said it yourself, it comes down to interpretation and recognizing the signs. While you may say it's too much to ask for parents to recognize signs of bullying and know how to help or know how to seek the right venues for help, I don't think this is the case. In effect, you are essentially saying that the victim who may or may not have been depressed was at fault because he didn't do enough to get the help he needed from the people who should have been protecting and watching over him. No. You only have so much control. You cannot control people. Somethings you can control; other things you cannot. You can be the best driver in the world. Always obeying the law. Never had an accident. It's winter and the roads are icy. You give yourself ample time to stop at the red light. Car comes to a halt. All of the sudden BOOM! Someone blindsides you because there was black ice on the road. No control over that accident. If you think you can control your child to perfection. You're in for it. Not only that, At 14 tweens can be pretty secretive. From the little info we have, it sounds like he kept to himself well. All bottled up inside. _ Kids are picking up things faster than ever nowdays with all the exposure of sex and violence. Then again, I knew ton of kids with switch blades, butterfly knives and swiss army knives by the time I was that age. In any case, kids deal with all kinds of shit at that age including identity crisis. They don't really know who they are and are exploring. _ Most people are abysmal at reading body language let alone detecting depression. Many people I've spoken to say they've been through depression. Then I ask them about the degree of depression they were diagnosed with? In some instances they look at me puzzled or in other cases they say they were never diagnosed. It's not always depression and no, you don't necessarily have to get diagnosed. What I am saying is that mild cases are very different from severe. If it interfers with your everyday life for a really long time and you aren't functional. Houston, we have a problem. I see mild cases as only the beginning. In other words, it's a mood swing of being down. It can persist for several weeks, but the person is still highly functional. They cope with it. It isn't really a problem. A lot of people who are depressed don't want help or know how to help themselves. That and it's REALLY HARD for them to talk about it. Not for me. I've always been an open book. It's how I deal with it. I know I've always hated medication and don't want it. That's just me. People throw around the word depression too much. Same could be said about addiction. It's a total piss off to those who are truly, severely suffering from depression and addiction. There are many false signals out there and misread signs. No one has that shit down and before you know it. It's too late. What you think is the problem is usually only a symptom of the problem. Depression is a maze. You are the rat that they are experimenting on and you have to ultimately find your way out of the maze yourself. The only thing other people can do is provide their support. That is it. It's much more complex. I'm very well studied in these semiotics and I wouldn't even consider myself an expert when it comes to reading human behavior let alone talking about my own depression and I'm a fucking writer/actor/director for goodness sake. An expert? Not by a long shot. I can only speak from my experience. Once again, we are at no liberty to judge his parents based on all the information we have. None. We cannot change what's happened. All we can do is address the now. Hopefully the kid gets the help he needs. A shrink cannot force him to talk the same way a parent can't. They will have to take preventable measures now because he stabbed and killed the boy, but how willingly he will go along with it is anyone's guess. He wasn't at fault if you read the pdf in it's entirety. I am not placing the fault on him. There are many forms of bullying: gossip, rumors, internet, insults, derogatory terms, slurs, racism, humiliation, body language, spacial, intimidation, bossing, blackmail, manipulation, peer pressure, physical, etc. All these terms fit can fit under the act of bullying. Everyone gets bullied no matter where. How you deal with it is another story. You haven't actually addressed the point I was making. I'm not saying it's easy or even reasonable to expect this from parents but they have to get better at recognizing and dealing with the signs and symptoms of bullying, abuse, depression (and any other form of mental illness). Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but what I said is still the truth. Whether or not the child cooperates by spilling their guts to mommy and daddy, whether or not mommy and daddy are gifted with being able to visually interpret body language correctly, in the end, you're the parent. You're the one responsible for the health and well being of the child. Sometimes it's basically an impossible situation but that's what it is. Arguing that it's not a failure for parents to not recognize signs and symptoms of their kids being abused or suffering severe depression is about as silly as arguing that the kid didn't actually kill anyone because the manslaughter was justified. Maybe it's unreasonable to expect parents to be able to do that but it would sure go a long way towards dealing with these issues.
Didn't I just say those signs aren't as highly visible and in many cases the intrepretation of whatever the boy does by the parents won't be accurate. Just like your interpretation is different from mine. You are directing your own film from the words you read. As am I. Everyone is going to have a different intrepretation.
Bullying can go on right underneath your nose. Fuck, in many cases you probably aren't even aware that you were bullied to begin with. Goes back to the last few lines I wrote in my last message to you.
Now put into the mental psyche of what the boy was going through.
Now the actual fight and spacial composition.
Viola. A trapped rat.
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On January 10 2012 18:55 xM(Z wrote:
if i were to choose between a bully victim suicide and a bully stabbin' i'd take the later everytime. (as being 'better')
if all the bullies would suddenly get stabbed i wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
and how are you ever gonna know if someone that is bullied will commit suicide? or just stab all bullies beforehand so that the first case never occurs?
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On January 10 2012 18:55 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:51 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 18:48 isleyofthenorth wrote:On January 10 2012 18:46 S_SienZ wrote:On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up He was told BEFOREHAND that he was going to get beaten up. =.= Not everyone has killer biceps or a sick right punch to rely on. ok then i got it wrong, but thats almost as bad. equipping yourself with a lethal weapon because someone will beat you up. Im kind of disgusted by all the opininions in this thread that consider someone who stabs 12 times with a knife(no matter the circumstances) totally innocent The kid believed his life was endanger. Kids are immoral. -_- If you read all the posts and the pdf thoroughly perhaps you wouldn't be so hardpressed on what actually transpired. doesent matter if the kid was afraid that his life was in danger. there is no proof for that. Also how likely is it that someone who announced that he will beat you up, will actually murder you. noone is that stupid
What matters is what HE FELT. What was going through HIS HEAD.
In this case you cannot put yourself in his shoes because you have no fucking clue what he was thinking other than the end result.
He gave ample warning to not fight. He probably knew that he would not be able to control his anger and emotions. Hence the stabbing. The kid had NO RELEASE or outlet prior. This was his outlet.
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justified
he's been bullied for a year by multiple attackers so he carried a knife for protection
when you are faced against a group of people it is reasonable to carry a knife to defend yourself
then, when he was faced with confrontation he tried to avoid it only to have his escape blocked off by the other bullies
when your fight or flight response is triggered you continue to stab or shoot until the attacker is stopped
that is why you see someone get shot 20 times or stabbed 30 times
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On January 10 2012 18:48 isleyofthenorth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 18:46 S_SienZ wrote:On January 10 2012 18:43 isleyofthenorth wrote:On January 10 2012 18:38 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 18:26 isleyofthenorth wrote:
A man possessing child porn on his hard drive gets a life sentence.
14 year old severly bullied boy commits manslaughter and gets nothing.
Pretty messed up Self defense is a more than valid defense in the case of manslaughter. There really is not such equivalent defense in the case of child pornography. I don't see how that is messed up. Or are you implying that if someone was assaulting you with the intent to do serious bodily harm, you cannot defend yourself out of risk of committing manslaughter? him carrying a knife, in anticipation of a fight alone is worse to me than possessing child porn i dont think its defendable carrying a lethal weapon and striking 12 times at leathal spots because someone might/is about to beat you up He was told BEFOREHAND that he was going to get beaten up. =.= Not everyone has killer biceps or a sick right punch to rely on. ok then i got it wrong, but thats almost as bad. equipping yourself with a lethal weapon because someone will beat you up. Im kind of disgusted by all the opininions in this thread that consider someone who stabs 12 times with a knife(no matter the circumstances) totally innocent
He didn't equip himself with a lethal weapon to hunt down the bully and make him stop either. And seriously, the number of times is irrelevant. Self defense ends when either the assailant is dead or no longer a danger whichever comes first. Unless you somehow have proof that the first couple of blows rendered the bully safely incapacitated, it's a moot point how many wounds were on the body. You can shoot me 15 times but if I'm somehow still waving a knife at you and moving forward, you still have the right to shoot me some more.
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EPT
