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On January 10 2012 17:31 Blackfoger wrote:
After reading a fair amount of comments want to see if I can end the discussion.
It is a shame for both sides and sad that it had to escalate to this situation but it had been happening for a year. At this point it's safe to say that the other kids and teachers weren't going to intervene. The kid didn't know what to do and felt taking a knife was the best course of action.
When surrounded by a group of bullies one of which said he is going to physically harm you, the kid with the knife is very scared doesn't know what to do and will violently swing the knife as the testosterone is going and when the body is in an adrenaline state the mind becomes more tunnel visioned, one of the points that's taught in psychology.
As some TL posters are stating they have been bullied and it can be very traumatic and make them side with the bullied. It is known that scaring at a young age from being bullied or other time of abuse can lead to social problems for adults.
My last point and probably the biggest these are kids, Communication is hard if not impossible to do with them if you read all the bullying cases and previous precedent on the issue you will see that no one knew that this was happening. As a growing kid their brains are not as developed as an adult or a TL reader that thinks they know what should of happened, kids in school don't fully know how to process or resolve a situation that can be far outside their comfort zone. That is why booze isn't allowed until you are 21 because the brain needs to evolve in key area's. Their thought process is way different then anyone else that is why some kids are put into juvy not prison.
And that's exactly why the support structure around the kids such as the bus drivers, teachers, security guards, and ESPECIALLY their parents need to learn how to better recognize and deal with bullying and abuse. One cannot simply throw their hands into the air and say unless they come to us for help we can't do anything because it's hard to communicate with kids.
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I'm with the "fuck bullies" crowd. Fuck bullies. They backed him into a corner and he lashed out, Go figure.
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The thing I find most amazing about this was that the scumbags family were upset that this hero isn't going to be charged there should be a law against people idolizing bullies and criminals.
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On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:16 nennx wrote:
Its disgusting that so many people support bringing weapons into fights.
Talk about a digression of society. We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you.
You're an idiot.
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Ignore this nennx guy, the more you read his posts the more you realize hes just trolling. And if he isn't, he has no understanding of ethical concepts like the veil of ignorance, only maintaining a hardline "murder is murder" stance, so he is clearly someone you cannot engage in a logical argument
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On January 10 2012 15:10 Detwiler wrote:
I dont know if I buy this. I got in fight in school and i never killed anyone. I dont think he should just get off free. Ok i get it he was bullied. That sucks but he KILLED the other kid. You could go even as far as to call it premeditated murder. The kid had a ton of options to choose from. What he choose was to get a knife and kill the guy.
Yeah, I don't know, I have no problem with this ethically. In my opinion, someone who threatens and beats up another person for over a year deserves to die no less than a rapist.
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On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:16 nennx wrote:
Its disgusting that so many people support bringing weapons into fights.
Talk about a digression of society. We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you.
This is just getting laughable. Ignoring everything else that is wrong with your statement, I'm just going to let you think about the difference between "people who threaten you" vs "people actively beating on the back of your skull as you try to run away."
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served the bully. self defence but still now people will know not too bully this guy anymore
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On January 10 2012 17:35 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:31 Blackfoger wrote:
After reading a fair amount of comments want to see if I can end the discussion.
It is a shame for both sides and sad that it had to escalate to this situation but it had been happening for a year. At this point it's safe to say that the other kids and teachers weren't going to intervene. The kid didn't know what to do and felt taking a knife was the best course of action.
When surrounded by a group of bullies one of which said he is going to physically harm you, the kid with the knife is very scared doesn't know what to do and will violently swing the knife as the testosterone is going and when the body is in an adrenaline state the mind becomes more tunnel visioned, one of the points that's taught in psychology.
As some TL posters are stating they have been bullied and it can be very traumatic and make them side with the bullied. It is known that scaring at a young age from being bullied or other time of abuse can lead to social problems for adults.
My last point and probably the biggest these are kids, Communication is hard if not impossible to do with them if you read all the bullying cases and previous precedent on the issue you will see that no one knew that this was happening. As a growing kid their brains are not as developed as an adult or a TL reader that thinks they know what should of happened, kids in school don't fully know how to process or resolve a situation that can be far outside their comfort zone. That is why booze isn't allowed until you are 21 because the brain needs to evolve in key area's. Their thought process is way different then anyone else that is why some kids are put into juvy not prison.
And that's exactly why the support structure around the kids such as the bus drivers, teachers, security guards, and ESPECIALLY their parents need to learn how to better recognize and deal with bullying and abuse. One cannot simply throw their hands into the air and say unless they come to us for help we can't do anything because it's hard to communicate with kids.
I hope a day comes shortly here when that can happen, where we actually have a decent system to stop this. As this is a huge issue and I feel also flows into Racism in our country to some point..
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On January 10 2012 16:41 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 16:39 Sinensis wrote:Looks like they picked the wrong kid to mess with. It's a shame anyone had to die but... On January 10 2012 16:30 Shafanhow wrote:
To the bullies of the world: Don't start shit and there won't be any shit. Yeah dawg fuck with me and im gonna kill ya nice modern / civilized society we live in where you can get away scot-free for killing someone because you can say you're scared you're going to get a few bruises
The bullied kid took a life. Under our laws that's justifiable under certain circumstances. Such as: You feel your life is threatened or you are in danger of serious harm. This type of law isn't unique to our country, it's generally excepted that SELF defense is a LEGAL defense. Beyond that this kid had been forced to live in fear, skip school, go out of his way just to avoid these bullies. Not to mention the lifelong phobias and syndromes and what not bullied kids have to look forward to. In short the bully brought this on himself. It's ugly, it's sad, and it's perfectly justifiable.
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Its a pity this has happened, schools unfortunately dont do enough to deter bullying. Especially in the UK I feel schools are unwilling to expel students because it looks bad on their record and they may lose the money for that one student. It is a sad state of affairs.
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On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:16 nennx wrote:
Its disgusting that so many people support bringing weapons into fights.
Talk about a digression of society. We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you.
Are you really trying to argue that you can only use a weapon in a fight if you don't know you're going to be attacked?
Or are your saying that defending yourself from possible death with a weapon should never be allowed?
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On January 10 2012 17:35 kittensrcute wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:16 nennx wrote:
Its disgusting that so many people support bringing weapons into fights.
Talk about a digression of society. We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. so if a group of kids are beating you and you have a knife on you for self defense because you've been constantly bullied, you wouldn't use the knife?
Yeah it was Aggravated Manslaughter that the kid was charged with. nennx claims to have read the pdf but his memory is fairly selective.
And he would have just put his fists up and taken a pummeling because nennx is all about fair fights and honour unlike the rest of you cowards.
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On January 10 2012 15:10 Detwiler wrote:
I dont know if I buy this. I got in fight in school and i never killed anyone. I dont think he should just get off free. Ok i get it he was bullied. That sucks but he KILLED the other kid. You could go even as far as to call it premeditated murder. The kid had a ton of options to choose from. What he choose was to get a knife and kill the guy.
Except that's not what happened at all.
First realize, it's a 14 year old vs a 17 year old. You "getting in a fight in school" isn't even relevant, unless it's a similar scenario. I've been in a few fights, won a majority of them. But this kid was outnumbered. I can relate, my friend and I were jumped by 10 other guys who were just looking for a fight for shits and giggles. We didn't even know them. I got my ass kicked, face all bruised up, couldn't sleep on one side of my head at night because of all the bruising. The police were notified, they didn't do shit. You know what they said? "Fights like these happen constantly, we usually just let it go unless there's more threats of constant harassment, etc." In other words, the police don't give a shit unless they have to. Of course, there may have been constant harassment in this case, but with bullying "telling on someone" is never an option, and to those who say "call the police" I can only laugh at/mock them.
He didn't "choose" to kill the guy. In fact, he tried to do the opposite. He tried to get away from this bully without fighting for an entire year. He tried to tell the bully to not fight him. He even tried to get off the damn bus multiple stops early. To continue, he even tried to ignore the bully after the bully started following him, until the bully sucker punched him in the back of the head.
Are you friggin' kidding me?
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stories like this make me happy... except the bully victim had to go through all this shit after.
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On January 10 2012 17:37 Osmoses wrote:
I'm with the "fuck bullies" crowd. Fuck bullies. They backed him into a corner and he lashed out, Go figure.
I'm annoyed at how people are surprised things like this happen from bullying. Don't just focus on the end product - the killing - also think about the bullying. It's not a small matter. It's not something every victim can shrug off.
The victim in this case isn't just going "scott-free". He's going to get some counseling. He shouldn't be treated like a criminal (by being sent to jail), because his mindset wasn't that of a criminal. It was that of someone who was being ganged up on by 3 bigger boys (one who apparently learned jiu-jitsu and challenged him to a fight). Why do users like nenx and detwiler treat the victim like he had the mindset of a murderer?
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On January 10 2012 17:40 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:16 nennx wrote:
Its disgusting that so many people support bringing weapons into fights.
Talk about a digression of society. We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. Are you really trying to argue that you can only use a weapon in a fight if you don't know you're going to be attacked? Or are your saying that defending yourself from possible death with a weapon should never be allowed?
Yes, I'm sure the kid was actually going to die. These kinds of fights always result in death.
The problem with the law is that all it requires is that the "victim" feels like they are in serious danger, even if they are not. If he didn't stab the kid 12 times, he probably would have ended up with a black eye and/or a bloody noise. Now he is probably even more fucked up mentally and is behind in education and will probably never get a proper one. It also sends the message that it is ok to kill people who bully you.
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On January 10 2012 17:28 FFGenerations wrote:i typed his name into youtube like that other guy said , there was an anime video of him being beheaded to the morrowind soundtrack (spoilers!!) and also this + Show Spoiler +i just cant get my head around it, this culture thing
Fuck this bitch was vacuous and annoying. She spent most of the video talking about her games, lack of makeup and then being distracted. Did this get posted after he died? Who makes a tribute to someone and then can't even stop playing a game while doing it?
Edit: Thank god that was made last year. She's still annoying as fuck though.
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On January 10 2012 17:35 kittensrcute wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:16 nennx wrote:
Its disgusting that so many people support bringing weapons into fights.
Talk about a digression of society. We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. so if a group of kids are beating you and you have a knife on you for self defense because you've been constantly bullied, you wouldn't use the knife?
Actually, a group of kids weren't beating him, one person was and 2 others were encouraging him to continue. And no, I wouldn't kill someone just because they were beating me up, and If I did for whatever reason, I wouldn't expect to get away with no charges.
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On January 10 2012 17:48 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 17:40 Uncultured wrote:On January 10 2012 17:34 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:30 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:25 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:24 tripper688 wrote:On January 10 2012 17:22 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:19 SolHeiM wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 nennx wrote:On January 10 2012 17:18 SolHeiM wrote:
[quote]
We support the right to defending yourself against an attacker. You're trying to put words in our mouths, and that is to me pretty disgusting. The right to defend yourself by committing murder with no consequences. D-i-s-g-u-s-t-i-n-g. Again.. It wasn't murder. Yeah, its not murder anymore because of laws like stand your ground. At least murder rates are down. LMFAO Actually, even in states without stand your ground, chances are it would not have been murder. No malicious premeditation means he would be hit with manslaughter if anything at all. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just trying to get a rise out of people now. Bringing a weapon to school when you know you're going to be in a fight isn't premeditated? He never intended to use it and did everything in his power to avoid the fight. Again, maybe you should read the article and find out what happened. Thats right, he just brought the knife to school when he knew there was going to be a fight. I read the report, he had the knife in his pocket and used it when attacked. The law says hes innocent since its ok to kill unarmed people who threaten you. Are you really trying to argue that you can only use a weapon in a fight if you don't know you're going to be attacked? Or are your saying that defending yourself from possible death with a weapon should never be allowed? Yes, I'm sure the kid was actually going to die. These kinds of fights always result in death. The problem with the law is that all it requires is that the "victim" feels like they are in serious danger, even if they are not. If he didn't stab the kid 12 times, he probably would have ended up with a black eye and/or a bloody noise. Now he is probably even more fucked up mentally and is behind in education and will probably never get a proper one. It also sends the message that it is ok to kill people who bully you.
The idea isn't that fights like this always result in death. It's that they CAN and sometimes DO. And don't make me pull up the instances where this has happened. All you need to is google.
You can't argue for what would have "probably" happened. You have to account for all reasonable outcomes.
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EPT
