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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
On December 14 2011 00:52 CanucksJC wrote:
I dunno if this has been posted but
@MKPS2
I wonder what all the gamers, who wanted to be on that stage, thought after this game.... I myself wanted this opportunity really badly.
@IM_NesTea_
After calming myself down after playing terribly, the opponent does something even more crazy.
@MVPGuineapig
There are many other players that wanted to play in that league, but couldn't. Is he mocking all of us?
@SC2MVP
The thing that makes me angry the most is that NesTea was practicing past midnight, even though it was his birthday... Things shouldn't have been this way.
@SC2MVP
I'm glad that Quantic and Complexity made that deal. He could have been staying at our team house... That was the most disappointing game as at SC2 fan.
Koreans mad =/
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I really like how MC put it - White-Ra would just play to entertain. Hero would go down fighting and be exceptionally emotional afterwards. In neither scenario would fans and progamers be disappointed.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:59 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:56 natebreen wrote:
PS For all their bravado and claims of politeness, the koreans are by far the most biased group in all of e-sports.
If this was one of their players I guarantee the tweets would speak of how sorry they were that "so and so lost his heart."
and "I hope he can feel better and practice and return to form. I know he can. Fighting!"
etc. No, the guy would have been bashed pretty much the same... Look at what SlayerS did for Coca. It had nothing to do with GOM, but Coca got punished really badly just for having tarnished the SlayerS name.
Pretty much this.
Coca lost his Code S spot, his Code A spot and his A-team spot due to twenty seconds of stupidity in an online tournament.
It doesn't matter if Naniwa is Korean or white. The players and staff would still be upset that he was given four games on the biggest stage, and he threw away the last game because he didn't feel like playing anymore.
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On December 14 2011 00:59 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:56 natebreen wrote:
PS For all their bravado and claims of politeness, the koreans are by far the most biased group in all of e-sports.
If this was one of their players I guarantee the tweets would speak of how sorry they were that "so and so lost his heart."
and "I hope he can feel better and practice and return to form. I know he can. Fighting!"
etc. No, the guy would have been bashed pretty much the same... Look at what SlayerS did for Coca. It had nothing to do with GOM, but Coca got punished really badly just for having tarnished the SlayerS name.
Has nothing to do with punishment, and everything to do with attitude.
Of course they will punish because they are all about appearance. I'm talking about the attitude of the players toward the incident or offenders.
Koreans have a long history of throwing games, abusing, etc. in foreign tournament and games that "didn't matter."
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On December 14 2011 00:51 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:49 Umilard wrote:On December 14 2011 00:45 natebreen wrote:
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a semi-popular video from MLG of people coinflipping for "meaningless" games?
Those games surely could have produced entertaining vods, replays, or otherwise content available.
However, people understand that after the buildup of preparing for a huge tournament like an MLG or a Blizzard Cup, that getting knocked out early is not fun, and then proceeding to have to play more games with the mindset of having already been destroyed is just devastating.
Perhaps the koreans feel differently, but IMO the community seems a bit hypocritical for attacking naniwa, when this is in no way something exclusive to him. The difference is that they are not Naniwa. If Naniwa did the ogs.MC throat slit celebration people would call it a death threat and try to get him prosecuted.. At worst people would call him a copycat of MC Stop trying to troll. You aren't very good at it.
He's jokingly exaggerating, but people would make a deal out of it if NaNiWa did a considerable celebration ceremony, especially Koreans if he beat a fellow Korean. They seem fine with their own (their distinction, not mine) doing crazy celebrations, like TOP's nunchuk's or MC's murloc suit, but if any foreigner they haven't learned to like (HuK, Jinro etc) did something like that, there would be quite a few angry Tweets.
It's true that NaNiWa sometimes does some unnecessarily rude things and isn't very considerate, but that doesn't mean everything he does is bad, but most of the Koreans and many in the community seem set in their way to view anything he does as disgraceful.
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On December 14 2011 00:56 natebreen wrote:
PS For all their bravado and claims of politeness, the koreans are by far the most biased group in all of e-sports.
If this was one of their players I guarantee the tweets would speak of how sorry they were that "so and so lost his heart."
and "I hope he can feel better and practice and return to form. I know he can. Fighting!"
etc.
No...
You would get suspended from your team, and be called out for being unprofessional. If anything Koreans are much harsher to fellow Koreans.
You know nothing about eSports. Don't be a racist.
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On December 14 2011 01:01 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:52 CanucksJC wrote:
I dunno if this has been posted but
@MKPS2
I wonder what all the gamers, who wanted to be on that stage, thought after this game.... I myself wanted this opportunity really badly.
@IM_NesTea_
After calming myself down after playing terribly, the opponent does something even more crazy.
@MVPGuineapig
There are many other players that wanted to play in that league, but couldn't. Is he mocking all of us?
@SC2MVP
The thing that makes me angry the most is that NesTea was practicing past midnight, even though it was his birthday... Things shouldn't have been this way.
@SC2MVP
I'm glad that Quantic and Complexity made that deal. He could have been staying at our team house... That was the most disappointing game as at SC2 fan. Koreans mad =/
Koreans overreacting as usual.
Just want to point out that MKP said he wanted the place badly? Should have won more than Nani to make it there. Stupid reason to be pissed off.
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On December 14 2011 00:59 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:56 natebreen wrote:
PS For all their bravado and claims of politeness, the koreans are by far the most biased group in all of e-sports.
If this was one of their players I guarantee the tweets would speak of how sorry they were that "so and so lost his heart."
and "I hope he can feel better and practice and return to form. I know he can. Fighting!"
etc. No, the guy would have been bashed pretty much the same... Look at what SlayerS did for Coca. It had nothing to do with GOM, but Coca got punished really badly just for having tarnished the SlayerS name.
It's no use reasoning with the hoi polloi. Teamliquid truly has lost its quality.
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On December 14 2011 01:03 cive wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:56 natebreen wrote:
PS For all their bravado and claims of politeness, the koreans are by far the most biased group in all of e-sports.
If this was one of their players I guarantee the tweets would speak of how sorry they were that "so and so lost his heart."
and "I hope he can feel better and practice and return to form. I know he can. Fighting!"
etc. No... You would get suspended from your team, and be called out for being unprofessional. If anything Koreans are much harsher to fellow Koreans. You know nothing about eSports. Don't be a racist.
As I said before, it has nothing to do with outward punishment and everything to do with their speech and attitude.
Nice ad hominem though.
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Also, look at the way MC played against DRG yesterday on Crossfire. The match didn't matter for him (it mattered for Stephano though, I know), but he still microed his shit down to the very end, on a map that is very disadvantageous for Protoss after a certain point in time.
I mean, what's the big deal, Naniwa just had to play his fucking game, it was like 20 minutes of his life at most, he just had to take it like a ladder game or something, but he didn't even do that.
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The Coca punishment was WAY too harsh anyways, if Coca really had a bad intent he would've just forfeited the match or played like crap instead of blatantly loosing. And it was still alot worse than what Naniwa did since technically it's cheating. Btw, it could still be considered cheating if Coca just played like crap to help his friend, the difference is that he wouldn't get caught.
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I would not be surprised if GOM forces him to qualify for Code A instead of giving him his Code S spot after this. Even though the game did not matter at all koreans take this kind of behavior very seriously and with the outrage from many of the teams i feel that Johan has gotten a lot of "haters" in the korean community after this.
Even if he keeps his Code S seed and gets through the first group into r16 he wont have an easy time with players/teams gunning for him during the "picking-ceremony".
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On December 14 2011 00:52 CanucksJC wrote:
I dunno if this has been posted but
@MKPS2
I wonder what all the gamers, who wanted to be on that stage, thought after this game.... I myself wanted this opportunity really badly.
@IM_NesTea_
After calming myself down after playing terribly, the opponent does something even more crazy.
@MVPGuineapig
There are many other players that wanted to play in that league, but couldn't. Is he mocking all of us?
@SC2MVP
The thing that makes me angry the most is that NesTea was practicing past midnight, even though it was his birthday... Things shouldn't have been this way.
@SC2MVP
I'm glad that Quantic and Complexity made that deal. He could have been staying at our team house... That was the most disappointing game as at SC2 fan.
Pretty much all of their posts are irrelevant since they are making it look like nani threw away ALL his games, thus wasting space when players like MKPS2 could have played instead. This was not the case as Naniwa played all three earlier games to the best of his ability, he only threw the last game that didn't matter and that had zero impact on whether or not MKPS2 or other players lost an opportunity.
It was a shitty thing to do to Nestea, i'll give them that, but the rest is just sensationalist "we are holier than thou"-posts
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On December 14 2011 01:04 rblstr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:01 CanucksJC wrote:On December 14 2011 00:52 CanucksJC wrote:
I dunno if this has been posted but
@MKPS2
I wonder what all the gamers, who wanted to be on that stage, thought after this game.... I myself wanted this opportunity really badly.
@IM_NesTea_
After calming myself down after playing terribly, the opponent does something even more crazy.
@MVPGuineapig
There are many other players that wanted to play in that league, but couldn't. Is he mocking all of us?
@SC2MVP
The thing that makes me angry the most is that NesTea was practicing past midnight, even though it was his birthday... Things shouldn't have been this way.
@SC2MVP
I'm glad that Quantic and Complexity made that deal. He could have been staying at our team house... That was the most disappointing game as at SC2 fan. Koreans mad =/ Koreans overreacting as usual. Just want to point out that MKP said he wanted the place badly? Should have won more than Nani to make it there. Stupid reason to be pissed off.
Looking at their results, I'd give the edge quite easily to MKP.
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On December 14 2011 01:01 JinDesu wrote:
I really like how MC put it - White-Ra would just play to entertain. Hero would go down fighting and be exceptionally emotional afterwards. In neither scenario would fans and progamers be disappointed.
I think Nani just didn't realize how mad people wold be after it. I think that he was a bit short-sighted and emotional and just threw his hands up in the air. After reading his interview (which was quite level headed), he seemed rather regretting of his decision, and said that if he had known the back-lash people (esp koreans) had, then he would have just 4gated. The thing is, this happens in tournaments all the time. Some matches in MLG are settled with a coin-flip. Idra flat out forfeited his 7/8 place match to HayprO at Providence, Stephano did 2 early pool builds to Cloud at Dreamhack when he was 0-2.
It's just that this time, it happens to be Naniwa, and it happens to be the Koreans. I guess the moral of the story here is "don't piss off the Koreans", cause this sort of thing seems to be completely understandable in other circumstances
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On December 14 2011 01:06 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:04 rblstr wrote:On December 14 2011 01:01 CanucksJC wrote:On December 14 2011 00:52 CanucksJC wrote:
I dunno if this has been posted but
@MKPS2
I wonder what all the gamers, who wanted to be on that stage, thought after this game.... I myself wanted this opportunity really badly.
@IM_NesTea_
After calming myself down after playing terribly, the opponent does something even more crazy.
@MVPGuineapig
There are many other players that wanted to play in that league, but couldn't. Is he mocking all of us?
@SC2MVP
The thing that makes me angry the most is that NesTea was practicing past midnight, even though it was his birthday... Things shouldn't have been this way.
@SC2MVP
I'm glad that Quantic and Complexity made that deal. He could have been staying at our team house... That was the most disappointing game as at SC2 fan. Koreans mad =/ Koreans overreacting as usual. Just want to point out that MKP said he wanted the place badly? Should have won more than Nani to make it there. Stupid reason to be pissed off. Looking at their results, I'd give the edge quite easily to MKP.
Yet, he didn't qualify, and still blames Nani.
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Wow some of the Koreans tweet don't even make sense.
"I wanted to play that tournament"
First of all: THEN EARN IT instead of QQing in the interwebz.
Second of all: He had already lost the tournament. He isn't mocking those who AGAIN didn't have the means to qualify as he did. He was already OUT.
Third of all: Yes very clever to say that he could be staying at your house. Except that he was. And nobody wanted to practice with him for no reason. And when they did, they didn't take the game seriously. Seems shitty.
Seriously, I wish people were nicer to each other. No Korean progamer can empathize with him losing three close games and having to play another game when he is already tilting?
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On December 14 2011 01:06 DYEAlabaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 01:01 JinDesu wrote:
I really like how MC put it - White-Ra would just play to entertain. Hero would go down fighting and be exceptionally emotional afterwards. In neither scenario would fans and progamers be disappointed. I think Nani just didn't realize how mad people wold be after it. I think that he was a bit short-sighted and emotional and just threw his hands up in the air. After reading his interview (which was quite level headed), he seemed rather regretting of his decision, and said that if he had known the back-lash people (esp koreans) had, then he would have just 4gated. The thing is, this happens in tournaments all the time. Some matches in MLG are settled with a coin-flip. Idra flat out forfeited his 7/8 place match to HayprO at Providence, Stephano did 2 early pool builds to Cloud at Dreamhack when he was 0-2. It's just that this time, it happens to be Naniwa, and it happens to be the Koreans. I guess the moral of the story here is "don't piss off the Koreans", cause this sort of thing seems to be completely understandable in other circumstances
To be fair, Idra was watching a match and didn't know he was being called to play his consolation match at Providence.
The main stage, especially where the players were sitting up front, would be impossible to find and get him for a match, and if you weren't there they just called your name out, so it wasn't an intentional thing, just circumstance.
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On December 14 2011 00:47 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 00:42 BlueSpace wrote:
I don't really get why people keep on saying the match was meaningless. Yes it won't change the outcome of the tournament as a whole but I was very interested in seeing if Naniwa can beat Nestea in Korea after what happened at MLG. There seems to be some overreaction but I can understand that Nestea and the Korean community are upset. Nestea had sth. to prove and Naniwa should have given him the opportunity to play a "real match". It was a showmatch at that point, but those still mean sth. otherwise people wouldn't organize them. Showmatches usually have a prize pool on the line still. Which is why its participants still try to win the game. It's only really interesting if both players are trying their best to win. With nothing on the line, it's hard to guess if either player is really giving it their all. Lots of people in tournaments simply don't care about their relatively meaningless games. Some play them out, some don't. The better formats don't even have players play meaningless matches specifically to avoid this problem.
I think a lot of pride was on the line but you are of course right that without "real" incentive it is hard to judge if both players are really giving their best. I posted a bit further down that I can understand what Naniwa did on a personal level but I do think it shows a lack of professionalism. You're right that GSL/Blizz could have been smart enough to put in rule that would have allowed this situation to never happen but part of being a professional in my opinion is to deal with such situations and then complain about it later.
Naniwa acted completely emotional. On the other hand people are really freaking out a bit too much. He is known for being a really emotional player, that goes on a bad tilt if he doesn't perform up to his own expectations. Still from GomTV's point of view as well as from his teams point of view that is of course highly undesirable. On the other hand, every sport has its "black" sheep. Would be boring if the whole herd would be white 
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The fact of the matter is that GOM should not have made them play each other, and Naniwa should not have responded that way. Errors of judgement by both sides, but the situation has been blown out of proportion by the Korean pro's unnecessarily. The Naniwa-Nestea rivalry will continue on and be showcased under MUCH better circumstances (i.e. games that actually matter) and Naniwa will play games that fans will appreciate.
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EPT
