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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 10 2011 23:32 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 23:28 WeaVerPrime wrote:On September 10 2011 22:24 Goliathsorrow wrote:
A protoss deathball WITH HTs is still the strongest army, BUT, HTs right now sucks balls to use compared to ghosts and infestors... they do not cloak, they need 33 seconds to be able to do 1 storm after being warped, they are too slow which mean you cannot retreat from a battle without losing most of them or all of them and they are really hard to split because of this slow speed and they always stay behind compared to the army and bringing them in front or/middle army makes them too easy to just immediately die to broodlords and/or fungaled and not able to throw decent storms.
Also (at least this is true vs Z) you cannoy really rely on pure zealot late game so you gotta dump gas in other units that are not high templars so you will never match the number of infestors he has with your hts which renders the thing harder.
PvT is probably even worst (althought you have more gas to use in hts and archons) since EMP is so effective, ghosts are now much more easier to mass with the new cost they have frigging cloak which is easy to abuse by throwing all those 1000 scans terrans have late game and snipe the obvserver which have way too less hp to be microed around and must be put in front cuz of EMP's huge range.
I'm biased more than probably but the problem is that HT are not good enough compared to infestors and ghosts right now. That's the right way to explain the status-quo of Protoss... It's supposed to have the greatest lategame army when in fact Terran and Zerg are just strongeer cause of ghost and Infestor. We can see games with mass infestor, mass ghost (mvp vs july 4-5 days ago) but i'll never see mass HT... they're a step behind Anyway the infestor NP's nerf will not affect Protoss deathball... the fungal still online and deal 10 dps... remember that Lol Protoss lategame < T / Z lategame because mass HT < mass infestor / ghost is such a terrible oversimplification -_-.
never said only that...
i said that we'll never see mass HT cause they are weaker than their counterparts ... made a mass of HT is junk, made 15 infestor is still an optimal choice, and that's is strange referring to the fact that they are designed to be SUPPORT units and not core units
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Zergs stomping their feet at the infestor nerf.
Terrans and Protoss' cheering, all is right within the world.
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On September 10 2011 23:32 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 23:28 WeaVerPrime wrote:On September 10 2011 22:24 Goliathsorrow wrote:
A protoss deathball WITH HTs is still the strongest army, BUT, HTs right now sucks balls to use compared to ghosts and infestors... they do not cloak, they need 33 seconds to be able to do 1 storm after being warped, they are too slow which mean you cannot retreat from a battle without losing most of them or all of them and they are really hard to split because of this slow speed and they always stay behind compared to the army and bringing them in front or/middle army makes them too easy to just immediately die to broodlords and/or fungaled and not able to throw decent storms.
Also (at least this is true vs Z) you cannoy really rely on pure zealot late game so you gotta dump gas in other units that are not high templars so you will never match the number of infestors he has with your hts which renders the thing harder.
PvT is probably even worst (althought you have more gas to use in hts and archons) since EMP is so effective, ghosts are now much more easier to mass with the new cost they have frigging cloak which is easy to abuse by throwing all those 1000 scans terrans have late game and snipe the obvserver which have way too less hp to be microed around and must be put in front cuz of EMP's huge range.
I'm biased more than probably but the problem is that HT are not good enough compared to infestors and ghosts right now. That's the right way to explain the status-quo of Protoss... It's supposed to have the greatest lategame army when in fact Terran and Zerg are just strongeer cause of ghost and Infestor. We can see games with mass infestor, mass ghost (mvp vs july 4-5 days ago) but i'll never see mass HT... they're a step behind Anyway the infestor NP's nerf will not affect Protoss deathball... the fungal still online and deal 10 dps... remember that Lol Protoss lategame < T / Z lategame because mass HT < mass infestor / ghost is such a terrible oversimplification -_-.
If a thing is simple it doesn't mean it's wrong.
If HTs being weaker than the other big casters makes the late game hard how can it be an oversimplification ?
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On September 11 2011 00:08 Masq wrote:
Zergs stomping their feet at the infestor nerf.
Terrans and Protoss' cheering, all is right within the world.
QTF i lol'ed so hard
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On September 11 2011 01:09 atavus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 00:08 Masq wrote:
Zergs stomping their feet at the infestor nerf.
Terrans and Protoss' cheering, all is right within the world. QTF
"Quoth the fuck"?
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On September 10 2011 23:38 RieuK wrote:
I just played a pvz on ptr and the zerg used neural parasite on my collossus. I thought NP couldn't be used on massive units...
Doesn't work in custom games, only ladder
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On September 11 2011 00:08 Masq wrote:
Zergs stomping their feet at the infestor nerf.
Terrans and Protoss' cheering, all is right within the world.
The funny part is that terran has had a higher win percentage in ZvT every month since release so they should not be complaining.
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On September 11 2011 01:10 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 01:09 atavus wrote:On September 11 2011 00:08 Masq wrote:
Zergs stomping their feet at the infestor nerf.
Terrans and Protoss' cheering, all is right within the world. QTF "Quoth the fuck"?
Quoted for truth
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On September 11 2011 01:16 Philip2110 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 01:10 Gheed wrote:On September 11 2011 01:09 atavus wrote:On September 11 2011 00:08 Masq wrote:
Zergs stomping their feet at the infestor nerf.
Terrans and Protoss' cheering, all is right within the world. QTF "Quoth the fuck"? Quoted for truth
I was subtly making fun of him for making a typo in a 3 letter post.
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On September 11 2011 01:17 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 01:16 Philip2110 wrote:On September 11 2011 01:10 Gheed wrote:On September 11 2011 01:09 atavus wrote:On September 11 2011 00:08 Masq wrote:
Zergs stomping their feet at the infestor nerf.
Terrans and Protoss' cheering, all is right within the world. QTF "Quoth the fuck"? Quoted for truth I was subtly making fun of him for making a typo in a 3 letter post.
Haha im not paying enough attention to realize
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Anyone remember the beta days of Neural Parasite glory? 50 energy, unlimited duration, no upgrade, it worked on all (non flying) units. Zerg always used their imba roaches, so every protoss blindly 1 gated to immortals. Ling/infestor was pretty much an auto win back then in zvp.
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On September 11 2011 01:20 Philip2110 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 01:17 Gheed wrote:On September 11 2011 01:16 Philip2110 wrote:On September 11 2011 01:10 Gheed wrote:On September 11 2011 01:09 atavus wrote:On September 11 2011 00:08 Masq wrote:
Zergs stomping their feet at the infestor nerf.
Terrans and Protoss' cheering, all is right within the world. QTF "Quoth the fuck"? Quoted for truth I was subtly making fun of him for making a typo in a 3 letter post. Haha im not paying enough attention to realize
Me neither XD
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most of you don't seem to realize that protoss has lot of ways to prevent/stop infestors from controlling colossus's with NP.
if you have several colossus on the field, not each one of em is gona get NP'd unless your greatly behind, usually half of the colossus are not controlled and can easily kill the infestors.
theres also feedback and blink stalkers, i've seen in several high lvl replays/streams where protosses micro small groups of blink stalkers to kill the infestors which have NP'd colossus/archon.
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On September 11 2011 01:21 RMmanlots wrote:
Anyone remember the beta days of Neural Parasite glory? 50 energy, unlimited duration, no upgrade, it worked on all (non flying) units. Zerg always used their imba roaches, so every protoss blindly 1 gated to immortals. Ling/infestor was pretty much an auto win back then in zvp.
Obviously NP needed a nerf from that level. But if this new change goes through (which i think is about 95% unlikely), then any people playing against zerg can just mass massives without zerg really having any economic way to counter it.
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On September 11 2011 01:25 Beyond Magic wrote:
most of you don't seem to realize that protoss has lot of ways to prevent/stop infestors from controlling colossus's with NP.
if you have several colossus on the field, not each one of em is gona get NP'd unless your greatly behind, usually half of the colossus are not controlled and can easily kill the infestors.
theres also feedback and blink stalkers, i've seen in several high lvl replays/streams where protosses micro small groups of blink stalkers to kill the infestors which have NP'd colossus/archon.
not to mention graviton beam breaks neural... :/
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im glad about the broodlord fix, sucked how carriers would be revealed and broods wouldnt when firing
as for the NP thing: Infestors NEEDED a change. Even top zerg players like idra knew they are too strong. But to stop it working on massive is a bit much. What is worth NP now? immortal? siege tank?..........
its fungal and infested terran that needed changing imo, in PvZ at least, i hear that NP on thors can be good in ZvT
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I always felt like having an ability that lets you control an opponent's unit would be very difficult to balance, and as far as I can tell it has been. If neural parasite can no longer be used on massive enemies it looks like it's going to be almost useless. Pretty much the only units worth using it on at that point are siege tanks (which is obviously difficult to do because of their range) and immortals (which aren't that common in zvp because collosi are so much better). There are probably some more gimmicky uses for it but I don't think that makes the research worth getting, even with the FG nerf.
That being said, even as a zerg I felt like infestors were a bit OP, and I'd rather have FG changed to do less damage overall but freeze units in place longer. But that's another debate altogether.
Also, thank god they're nerfing blue flame hellions. I think that makes the infestor nerfs worth it.
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infestors taking control of 300/200 T3 units when gateway units are so bad was just silly.
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On September 11 2011 01:26 Ghad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 01:21 RMmanlots wrote:
Anyone remember the beta days of Neural Parasite glory? 50 energy, unlimited duration, no upgrade, it worked on all (non flying) units. Zerg always used their imba roaches, so every protoss blindly 1 gated to immortals. Ling/infestor was pretty much an auto win back then in zvp. Obviously NP needed a nerf from that level. But if this new change goes through (which i think is about 95% unlikely), then any people playing against zerg can just mass massives without zerg really having any economic way to counter it.
You're not supposed to have an economic way to counter it because you're supposed to have more resources.
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There is no way that NP change going to through. Don't wary guys.
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EPT
