EPTOn September 11 2011 01:49 Nillinch wrote:
There is no way that NP change going to through. Don't wary guys.
There is no way that NP change going to through. Don't wary guys.
We never know, do we ?
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 372
| Forum Index > Closed |
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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atavus
France60 Posts
We never know, do we ? | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
I've seen so many PvZ where Zerg sits the whole game on lair, while protoss has to get both colossus and high templar tech, and often still lose horribly. Of course Ultras are bad if you opponent has 3 robos pumping immortals and 20 gateways. It's about the timing, if you tech earlier to Hive while trading with the protoss, ultras with upgrades are beatss. | ||
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_-NoMaN-_
Canada250 Posts
scouting and unit positioning accomplish the goal of this nerf in an *actually interesting* way; ie in keeping with blizzards design philosophy from day 1 of development... what I see here is blizz balancing a game for the lower levels (neural seemingly not being a problem at the pro level), possibly in response to losing so players many from season one and two. The implication here is that blizz is going for mass appeal over quality...which really should surprise no-one who consumes or is exposed to any amount of pop culture at all...ugh...plz let this be a bad dream | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
On September 11 2011 01:54 Elefanto wrote: Well it's clear that blizzard wants more hive tech. I've seen so many PvZ where Zerg sits the whole game on lair, while protoss has to get both colossus and high templar tech, and often still lose horribly. Of course Ultras are bad if you opponent has 3 robos pumping immortals and 20 gateways. It's about the timing, if you tech earlier to Hive while trading with the protoss, ultras with upgrades are beatss. if zerg can get a sudden burst of ultras without the toss expecting it, it can end the game there and then. It works so well against collosus stalker when used with fungal. | ||
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Moochlol
United States456 Posts
If this ever made it through, I would expect a huge retool of the Infestor. Which would have to come @ a later date, because I just don't see blizzard throwing this change in last minute and then giving Infestor a different spell, or a total removal of the spell yet buffing some other unit(cough cough hydra). Let's be realistic here instead of just claiming IMBA. Neural and Massive units @ this point are fundamental elements of this games basic design. Remove Neural from targeting massive and you break the meta game. Remove Neural from targeting massive without buffing anything else and you create TVT finals until HOTS. Does this seem like a balance change to you now or a total retooling of the current game design within a specific race. Blizzard releases shit when its ready. And to be honest the game is just not ready. When you jump to such conclusions as, you should not be able to counter a massive unit cost effectively as Zerg, you turn that dark corner we like to call BRONZE. As a great man once said, "Deal With it". | ||
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eksert
France656 Posts
 ??Viva la zerguluiton! | ||
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NemesysTV
United States1088 Posts
On September 11 2011 01:54 _-NoMaN-_ wrote: the point is protoss can avoid full neural with good positioning and proper unit comp (temps, phoenix, even well spread blinks).ie if the zerg gets all your cols, you blundered hard, as in a z getting all their shit ffed, or a terran going against col with too few vikings. scouting and unit positioning accomplish the goal of this nerf in an *actually interesting* way; ie in keeping with blizzards design philosophy from day 1 of development... what I see here is blizz balancing a game for the lower levels (neural seemingly not being a problem at the pro level), possibly in response to losing so players many from season one and two. The implication here is that blizz is going for mass appeal over quality...which really should surprise no-one who consumes or is exposed to any amount of pop culture at all...ugh...plz let this be a bad dream It wont matter that much... Neutral parasite really does need to not affect massive units because zerg can just get roaches and infestors vs a deathball of a protoss army because of it | ||
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gh0un
601 Posts
On September 11 2011 01:54 Elefanto wrote: Of course Ultras are bad if you opponent has 3 robos pumping immortals and 20 gateways. It's about the timing, if you tech earlier to Hive while trading with the protoss, ultras with upgrades are beatss. Teching to ultras or broodlords too fast, most of the times means instant lose for the zerg. Zergs t3 takes a lot longer to get to than terrans´ or protoss´, therefore your investment pays off much later, which means you are extremely vulnerable to timings. Terrans and protoss usually are already at t3 when zerg barely reaches t2 (even if you tech to it as fast as possible). You basically use minerals and gas for lair tech, and then have to wait. Then you invest into the infestor building, which is even more gas and minerals. Then you invest into hive and have to wait a pretty long time again. Then you invest minerals and gas into ultra cavern, or into spire and its upgrade. Thats like several tiers of investing into buildings without getting anything out of it (if your goal is teching to ultras or broodlords as fast as possible). And then 10 marines come and kill you. Doenst work my friend. | ||
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XDJuicebox
United States593 Posts
My life is complete | ||
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UniversalMind
United States326 Posts
vs Protoss I hate being suckered into Roach Corruptor, cause Corruptor is bad, I acknowledge I will lose nearly my entire ground force for colossus My main problem now though is not with Protoss but Terran cause Tank Thor Hellion sucks and Infestors was the second best way of dealing with it withing sending your entire army to its death Broodlords take a very long time to get to and has to be tech'ed to blindly to deal with correctly or you're susceptible to a 2 base timing (July vs MVP) on cross fire is the problem I have a lot with 2 base mech | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Hopefully blizzard is thinking further with this, then what they show right now and plan on other big things: -) (finally) nerfing colossi -) implementing hive play as useful tool, rather than as "I can finally end the game after getting ahead for 20min" - tech -) more infestor changes (like making fungal available while NPing; NP while burrowed; longlasting NP...) | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Make it happen already ^^ | ||
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UniversalMind
United States326 Posts
On September 10 2011 23:16 YosHGo wrote: Oh finaly infestor now doesnt counter everything... that is refreshing It was really stupid.. i felt like only thing i could do was zealot archon into immortal HT etc etc.. although its pretty strong push i figured so i guess all bad goes for something good good change... Time to slip off zerg collectors of protoss tears haha  welcome to my world, now you know how I feel every time I go ZvP Like I really want to go roach corruptor every game but alot of stuff gets owned and baneling drops are risky. I mean I have had to go Roach corruptor ever game vs protoss since the beta I do not see why you do not have to go HT if someone goes Infestor, it just seems really odd blizzard does not want protoss to have to react to anything zerg does but rather just make any unit from any tier and let zerg deal with it I don't use infestors but I'm glad there's some variety in the ZvP match-up other then Roach Corruptor | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On September 11 2011 01:54 Elefanto wrote: Well it's clear that blizzard wants more hive tech. I've seen so many PvZ where Zerg sits the whole game on lair, while protoss has to get both colossus and high templar tech, and often still lose horribly. Of course Ultras are bad if you opponent has 3 robos pumping immortals and 20 gateways. It's about the timing, if you tech earlier to Hive while trading with the protoss, ultras with upgrades are beatss. I think it's because they want more robo tech too. Right now, as every zerg are making infestors, robo tech isn't a viable path (except for "early" timing attacks), as infestors are one research away of making robo a bad choice. So robo is usable early (when I say early it's relative) and very late, when you can have robo and templar tech. As infestors are already the answer to stargate play, this doesn't let P with a lot of options. So they're sacrificing neural for more diversity in the matchup, or at least it's my guess of blizzard's reasoning. | ||
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IsraeL
United Kingdom172 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On September 11 2011 01:55 ThatGuy89 wrote: if zerg can get a sudden burst of ultras without the toss expecting it, it can end the game there and then. It works so well against collosus stalker when used with fungal. It works well against un-microed, but with blink it's actually pretty easy to run away. Mass ultra is still bad against so many things: Immortals, VR's, Archons, and even zealots. The only time Ultras work is if the zerg is already winning or the toss is caught completely off guard(and even then the toss can respond) | ||
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`chain
United States124 Posts
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pwadoc
271 Posts
On September 11 2011 03:13 `chain wrote: This patch is absolutely golden. I love all the changes, and I don't see anything wrong with them! Why are all of you QQing? I even agree with the blink nerf. Prior to the infestor buff, ZvP was basically un-winnable once the deathball got rolling. This patch basically reverts ZvP back to that state. It's pretty clear why zerg players are frustrated. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
On September 11 2011 01:54 Elefanto wrote: Well it's clear that blizzard wants more hive tech. I've seen so many PvZ where Zerg sits the whole game on lair, while protoss has to get both colossus and high templar tech, and often still lose horribly. Of course Ultras are bad if you opponent has 3 robos pumping immortals and 20 gateways. It's about the timing, if you tech earlier to Hive while trading with the protoss, ultras with upgrades are beatss. If you win a game by teching to hive while playing passively, chances are that you can win the game much earlier if you divert all the resources into lair tech upgrades and units. Zerg hive units are so situational, they seems unbeatable if you are unprepared for it, while they are garbage when you have the right counter units. The ideal way to use hive tech is while teching to hive, you put on so much pressure that the enemy is unable to divert resources to deal with hive tech units or they risk dying right on the spot. Hive tech is just a tool to end a dying turtling enemy that's starved out. Most broodlord infestor deathball balance whining are well... just whining. I don't recall seeing Nestea win games by relying on hive tech, his games are usually decided way before that. Nerfing neural won't change the win rates of the best zergs, they just have 1 less way to deal with deathball. It's just a dumb move as it makes games more stale. As if zerg's gameplay isn't boring enough. Most games just depends on your ability to read your opponent and drone up, and tactical play with the same old units. | ||
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ScythedBlade
308 Posts
On September 11 2011 03:17 pwadoc wrote: Prior to the infestor buff, ZvP was basically un-winnable once the deathball got rolling. This patch basically reverts ZvP back to that state. It's pretty clear why zerg players are frustrated. The bigger problem is that Blizzard isn't addressing the fact that Terrans rape way too much. The proper buff/nerf should not be to make Neural Parasite bad on Zerg's side but just make Terran units not so imbalanced. | ||
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