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On February 09 2011 16:07 Lexpar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 15:51 Skeny wrote:On February 09 2011 15:42 tbrown47 wrote:On February 09 2011 15:37 Lexpar wrote:
It doesn't matter. Its the classic internet argument of neither of us really knowing what we're talking about and just arguing about it cause it sucks being wrong on the internet. I dunno why CL won. Neither do you.
I just linked his wiki-page to prove to that one chuckle-knuckle who was saying you cant be a proper athlete without meat derived protein.
Yeah... but the problem is you brought up the argument... you have to defend it well... which you aren't really doing. If your argument is that you can be an athlete while being a vegan, obviously that is true. Does being a vegan make you a better athlete? There really isn't any decisive evidence. Does being an omnivore make you a better athlete? Well... yeah I'd have to say so. Considering most athletes eat meat I'd have to say that most likely eating meat is more healthy than not eating meat. It is a guess, obviously, but a guess that I'd conjecture most would side with me on. I'm not so sure that the conclusion you've drawn is correct. Firstly all us vegans/vegitarians here are trying to say is that you can be healty and not eat meat (dispite the bigoted claims of others). Secondly if we consider that meat eaters are more likely to be obese doesn't that mean that vegitarianism is healthier? Honestly I wouldn't draw a conclulsion one way or the other, although from life experience I'd say it is probably easier to be healthy and eat meat. However, I do know that you can get a balanced diet being vegan or vegitarian and that will make you as healthy as you need to be (unless you have some exceptional illness). All I really want to say (and i think I speak for others in doing so) is that you can be vegitarian/vegan and be fit and healthy. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand NOW I can go to sleep. Very well said. That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Every time I pulled up some fact to help support what I was saying, like "look you can get those vitamins from plants" or "look so and so was a vegetarian and they did just fine," I'd get pulled into a whirlwind of semantics. Anyway really well said. Listen to this guy.
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On February 09 2011 15:57 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 15:51 Skeny wrote:On February 09 2011 15:42 tbrown47 wrote:On February 09 2011 15:37 Lexpar wrote:
It doesn't matter. Its the classic internet argument of neither of us really knowing what we're talking about and just arguing about it cause it sucks being wrong on the internet. I dunno why CL won. Neither do you.
I just linked his wiki-page to prove to that one chuckle-knuckle who was saying you cant be a proper athlete without meat derived protein.
Yeah... but the problem is you brought up the argument... you have to defend it well... which you aren't really doing. If your argument is that you can be an athlete while being a vegan, obviously that is true. Does being a vegan make you a better athlete? There really isn't any decisive evidence. Does being an omnivore make you a better athlete? Well... yeah I'd have to say so. Considering most athletes eat meat I'd have to say that most likely eating meat is more healthy than not eating meat. It is a guess, obviously, but a guess that I'd conjecture most would side with me on. I'm not so sure that the conclusion you've drawn is correct. Firstly all us vegans/vegitarians here are trying to say is that you can be healty and not eat meat (dispite the bigoted claims of others). Secondly if we consider that meat eaters are more likely to be obese doesn't that mean that vegitarianism is healthier? Honestly I wouldn't draw a conclulsion one way or the other, although from life experience I'd say it is probably easier to be healthy and eat meat. However, I do know that you can get a balanced diet being vegan or vegitarian and that will make you as healthy as you need to be (unless you have some exceptional illness). All I really want to say (and i think I speak for others in doing so) is that you can be vegitarian/vegan and be fit and healthy. Second point is not necessarily true as vegetarians often turn to a lot of processed foods and grains as well as consuming additional calories as the fat/protein in meat satiates the appetite for longer resulting in a fatter vegetarian.
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On February 09 2011 16:09 Skeny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 16:07 decafchicken wrote:On February 09 2011 16:06 Skeny wrote:On February 09 2011 16:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
The problem is that vegans forget the wonderful tastes they are missing out on when they prepare things like 'tofu' Firstly tofu is delicious. Secondly I prefer to forget the taste of meat, makes it easier to stay vegetarian. I didn't turn because i thought meat wasn't tasty. Tofu is not delicious, it's completely flavorless. Not if you eat it with stirfry sauces. And it's not like meat tastes that great all by itself, steak it needs mushroom or bbq sauce at the least.
So you're admitting it is in fact not delicious, but that you find the stirfry sauces (i.e. loaded with sodium) to be what is tasty. While you may or may not like steak/meat, it does at least have flavor that many find enjoyable.
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On February 09 2011 16:09 Skeny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 16:07 decafchicken wrote:On February 09 2011 16:06 Skeny wrote:On February 09 2011 16:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
The problem is that vegans forget the wonderful tastes they are missing out on when they prepare things like 'tofu' Firstly tofu is delicious. Secondly I prefer to forget the taste of meat, makes it easier to stay vegetarian. I didn't turn because i thought meat wasn't tasty. Tofu is not delicious, it's completely flavorless. Not if you eat it with stirfry sauces. And it's not like meat tastes that great all by itself, steak it needs mushroom or bbq sauce at the least.
dude now my mouth is watering from the best steak i have ever eaten and that is salt, pepper some type of seasoning cooked with some juice,lemon juice,cooked medium rare or something like that augh hate fills my soul(im hungry now D:
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On February 09 2011 16:02 hoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 13:52 Lexpar wrote:On February 09 2011 13:48 Blyadischa wrote:On February 09 2011 13:33 Lexpar wrote:On February 09 2011 13:25 jalstar wrote:
I drive through fields of cows all the time in SoCal so I refuse to believe that all cows are locked up inside in tiny pens.
And I don't eat meat or poultry often because it's too expensive to get stuff that isn't processed garbage, so if anything I'm closer to vegetarian than carnivore. That makes no sense. Closer to a vegetarian? Its not like being a vegetarian makes you a better human being: ascends you to a higher plane or something. Being a vegetarian just means that less animals die in the grand scheme. Being "more a vegetarian than a carnivore" doesn't mean shit. You're an omnivore. Being a carnivore doesn't make you lawful evil or any shit like that, and vegetarians aren't neutral good or anything. Your comment pisses me off. Being a vegetarian doesn't mean less animals die in the grand scheme of things. You're wrong. Supply and demand. Sure 1 person not buying meat might mean that there is no change in the amount of animals tortured and killed. But if 1% of the population doesn't buy meat? That's millions of animals being saved in a generation. 5% of the population could mean billions of animals that aren't raised solely to be tortured and killed. Ok lets roll with this, x population doesnt eat meat, they must now eat veggies and whatnot. Thus more farmland is needed, that farmland destroys ecosystems and dooms animals to their death. Furthermore upon harvest field mice are killed by the combines and whatnot. So vegetarians get off you high horse and stop believing eating vegitables doesn't cause animals' deaths.
A very large percent of the farmland in the world is grown solely to feed livestock. Your argument sounds really good, but one of it's premises is false. I believe its something close to 50% of farmland.This article claims that supporting a human being's meat based diet requires 7 times as much land as a plant based diet.
Factory livestock farming kills many more ecosystems than agriculture thats meant for humans.
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On February 09 2011 13:21 darklordjac wrote:
Although I like my meat, this made me sick.
me too man, sick shit in that video
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On February 09 2011 15:41 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 15:35 mcc wrote:On February 09 2011 14:51 KingAce wrote:
The advantage of vegetarianism according to the energy pyramid; herbivores get more energy than carnivores, because plants have the most amount of energy. What the hell, that makes absolutely no sense. That makes perfect sense if you understand Biology and how energy is lost as it moves up through the food chain. For example, a goat eating grass processes only 10% of the total calories that the grass has. When we eat that goat, we only get 10% of the energy from the goat. So when you eat meat, you are only getting 1% of the energy in the form of calories that is available. However, if you decide to not eat meat or eat less meat and eat more green plants such as lettuce, broccoli, grains, etc, in theory, there will be more food left over to feed the rest of the world. This is especially true in countries like the United States where beef is produced largely from industrialized cow farms where the animals are fed corn rather than allowed to graze sustainably on grass.
Your statement alone makes sense and I did not argue with that. Read what he wrote, that makes no sense.
As for your point I might agree with it's factual truth, but your argument has holes, you assume that me processing the plants has the same efficiency as goat processing the plant, which is of course false.
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On February 09 2011 16:08 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 15:39 jpditri wrote:On February 09 2011 15:35 mcc wrote:On February 09 2011 14:51 KingAce wrote:
The advantage of vegetarianism according to the energy pyramid; herbivores get more energy than carnivores, because plants have the most amount of energy. What the hell, that makes absolutely no sense. It reminds me of the best argument that I've heard for vegetarianism or veganism, which was entropy-- the energy from the sun is converted to stored energy in plants (via chlorophyll, with some energy lost to entropy) , which is then converted by animals into another form of stored energy (again, further conversion costs energy to entropy), which we then convert into usable energy (further loss of energy via entropy). By cutting out the animal intermediary we reduce the energy lost to entropy. I am, regardless, an omnivore; but the argument is still compelling, regardless of my affinity to cheese and eggs. I don't think the argument is so conclusive. Consider that for example cows might have more efficient way of transforming plants into fat,... than humans. If the efficiency difference is big enough eating a cow has actually less lost energy. I am not saying it is so, just that the simple analysis you did is not really foolproof. Regardless of the result I think basing argument on the lost energy is not useful. The best argument for vegetarianism (vegans are just irrational IMHO) I heard is similar, but is based on sustainability as a basis. Basically that meat-rich diet requires more land and other resources to feed the same amount of people. And by feed I mean providing all the necessary stuff (minerals, ....). And since our planet is getting kind of crowded it might be a valid argument.
Considering cows has to eat almost all day long, that would be pretty hard to do as a human. Not to mention they are ruminants. Just go out to fields and die by grazing.
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On February 09 2011 16:09 teh_longinator wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 16:06 deL wrote:
Dickhead remarks like in this thread are why when offered a meat dish by someone who is unaware I am vegetarian, I have to pretend I am just a douchebag who doesn't want to eat their food rather than explain that I am vegetarian. -_____________- Or how about you just do the right thing and TELL THEM you're a vegetarian. I cannot speak for you, but from my own experience, the FOUR vegetarians we have working in our DELI have ZERO ISSUES with telling workers (and customers) that they are vegetarians. It's the type of vegetarians who "pretend to be a douchebag" that usually are douchebags, and choose vegetarianism for the sake of being "above" people who do not share their values... So what? You're a vegetarian? Tell the people offfering you food, and next time they offer it to you, they'll remember that you are and they won't offer!
When I became vegetarian my father, who was around me a lot at the time, commented that the amount of abuse I recieved was like I was a homosexual in the 1920s. I know it wasn't anywhere near that bad as that but you have no idea the amount of abuse you recieve from some people (which is always the same abuse you've heard 100 times before).
Anyway I feel deL's pain and thank you for not being so nasty to us.
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Well your video just showed what humans have done to survive since the dawn of our existance.
Soon we're going to have people who only drink water because they refuse to give fruits and veggies suffering.....
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On February 09 2011 16:16 Wasteweiser wrote:
Well your video just showed what humans have done to survive since the dawn of our existance.
Soon we're going to have people who only drink water because they refuse to give fruits and veggies suffering.....
I refuse to drink water too, because it hurts to the river.
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On February 09 2011 16:13 0mgVitaminE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 13:21 darklordjac wrote:
Although I like my meat, this made me sick. me too man, sick shit in that video
Very sick shit indeed! Epicly sick shit, that made me hungry as shit 
However, is this REALLY any different that how people treat other humans? We'll stab eachother and leave them for dead in the street for the sake of money, what do you think we'll do to animals for the ability to sustain ourselves?
I can see how this kind of stuff could be kinda offputting, however, I don't think that a 5 minute video portraying a minute percentage of farms should put anyone off of meat...
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On February 09 2011 16:17 nOia.pod wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 16:16 Wasteweiser wrote:
Well your video just showed what humans have done to survive since the dawn of our existance.
Soon we're going to have people who only drink water because they refuse to give fruits and veggies suffering.....
I refuse to drink water too, because it hurts to the river.
roflmaoAASADASDTGQDSFAFAFAF i love that post it is amazing bot please dont ban me it was an accident 1 word accident NOOOOOOO
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On February 09 2011 15:52 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 15:51 Skeny wrote:On February 09 2011 15:42 tbrown47 wrote:On February 09 2011 15:37 Lexpar wrote:
It doesn't matter. Its the classic internet argument of neither of us really knowing what we're talking about and just arguing about it cause it sucks being wrong on the internet. I dunno why CL won. Neither do you.
I just linked his wiki-page to prove to that one chuckle-knuckle who was saying you cant be a proper athlete without meat derived protein.
Yeah... but the problem is you brought up the argument... you have to defend it well... which you aren't really doing. If your argument is that you can be an athlete while being a vegan, obviously that is true. Does being a vegan make you a better athlete? There really isn't any decisive evidence. Does being an omnivore make you a better athlete? Well... yeah I'd have to say so. Considering most athletes eat meat I'd have to say that most likely eating meat is more healthy than not eating meat. It is a guess, obviously, but a guess that I'd conjecture most would side with me on. I'm not so sure that the conclusion you've drawn is correct. Firstly all us vegans/vegitarians here are trying to say is that you can be healty and not eat meat (dispite the bigoted claims of others). Secondly if we consider that meat eaters are more likely to be obese doesn't that mean that vegitarianism is healthier? Honestly I wouldn't draw a conclulsion one way or the other, although from life experience I'd say it is probably easier to be healthy and eat meat. However, I do know that you can get a balanced diet being vegan or vegitarian and that will make you as healthy as you need to be (unless you have some exceptional illness). All I really want to say (and i think I speak for others in doing so) is that you can be vegitarian/vegan and be fit and healthy. I believe that is a good way to say it. It is easier to have a healthy diet as an omnivore. I agree.
I think it is more complicated. In today's rich society it is easiest to have healthy diet as vegetarian just because as omnivore to have healthy diet you reaaaaaally need to go against convenience to achieve it. Well balanced omnivore diet is probably the best, but hard to achieve. As for the vegans, they have the worst diet and hardest to have healthy diet.
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On February 09 2011 16:17 nOia.pod wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 16:16 Wasteweiser wrote:
Well your video just showed what humans have done to survive since the dawn of our existance.
Soon we're going to have people who only drink water because they refuse to give fruits and veggies suffering.....
I refuse to drink water too, because it hurts to the river.
I wonder if they those vegans drive cars. THEY ARE BRUTALLY INCINERATING GASOLINE MOLECULES INTO CARBON DIOXIDE AND WATER. THINK ABOUT THE ATOMS!!!
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On February 09 2011 16:19 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 15:52 tbrown47 wrote:On February 09 2011 15:51 Skeny wrote:On February 09 2011 15:42 tbrown47 wrote:On February 09 2011 15:37 Lexpar wrote:
It doesn't matter. Its the classic internet argument of neither of us really knowing what we're talking about and just arguing about it cause it sucks being wrong on the internet. I dunno why CL won. Neither do you.
I just linked his wiki-page to prove to that one chuckle-knuckle who was saying you cant be a proper athlete without meat derived protein.
Yeah... but the problem is you brought up the argument... you have to defend it well... which you aren't really doing. If your argument is that you can be an athlete while being a vegan, obviously that is true. Does being a vegan make you a better athlete? There really isn't any decisive evidence. Does being an omnivore make you a better athlete? Well... yeah I'd have to say so. Considering most athletes eat meat I'd have to say that most likely eating meat is more healthy than not eating meat. It is a guess, obviously, but a guess that I'd conjecture most would side with me on. I'm not so sure that the conclusion you've drawn is correct. Firstly all us vegans/vegitarians here are trying to say is that you can be healty and not eat meat (dispite the bigoted claims of others). Secondly if we consider that meat eaters are more likely to be obese doesn't that mean that vegitarianism is healthier? Honestly I wouldn't draw a conclulsion one way or the other, although from life experience I'd say it is probably easier to be healthy and eat meat. However, I do know that you can get a balanced diet being vegan or vegitarian and that will make you as healthy as you need to be (unless you have some exceptional illness). All I really want to say (and i think I speak for others in doing so) is that you can be vegitarian/vegan and be fit and healthy. I believe that is a good way to say it. It is easier to have a healthy diet as an omnivore. I agree. I think it is more complicated. In today's rich society it is easiest to have healthy diet as vegetarian just because as omnivore to have healthy diet you reaaaaaally need to go against convenience to achieve it. Well balanced omnivore diet is probably the best, but hard to achieve. As for the vegans, they have the worst diet and hardest to have healthy diet.
That is a bit convoluted... you are bringing in something not related to the argument just to complicate things.
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On February 09 2011 16:02 hoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 13:52 Lexpar wrote:On February 09 2011 13:48 Blyadischa wrote:On February 09 2011 13:33 Lexpar wrote:On February 09 2011 13:25 jalstar wrote:
I drive through fields of cows all the time in SoCal so I refuse to believe that all cows are locked up inside in tiny pens.
And I don't eat meat or poultry often because it's too expensive to get stuff that isn't processed garbage, so if anything I'm closer to vegetarian than carnivore. That makes no sense. Closer to a vegetarian? Its not like being a vegetarian makes you a better human being: ascends you to a higher plane or something. Being a vegetarian just means that less animals die in the grand scheme. Being "more a vegetarian than a carnivore" doesn't mean shit. You're an omnivore. Being a carnivore doesn't make you lawful evil or any shit like that, and vegetarians aren't neutral good or anything. Your comment pisses me off. Being a vegetarian doesn't mean less animals die in the grand scheme of things. You're wrong. Supply and demand. Sure 1 person not buying meat might mean that there is no change in the amount of animals tortured and killed. But if 1% of the population doesn't buy meat? That's millions of animals being saved in a generation. 5% of the population could mean billions of animals that aren't raised solely to be tortured and killed. Ok lets roll with this, x population doesnt eat meat, they must now eat veggies and whatnot. Thus more farmland is needed, that farmland destroys ecosystems and dooms animals to their death. Furthermore upon harvest field mice are killed by the combines and whatnot. So vegetarians get off you high horse and stop believing eating vegitables doesn't cause animals' deaths.
Producing meat requires farmland, too. Cattle needs to be fed to get you your steak.
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On February 09 2011 16:16 Wasteweiser wrote:
Well your video just showed what humans have done to survive since the dawn of our existance.
Soon we're going to have people who only drink water because they refuse to give fruits and veggies suffering.....
You don't need to punch a calf in order to survive though. The practices in that video were bad and probably isolated. In our time, you can kill something so easily the guys who were abusing the animals just has some mental problems.
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On February 09 2011 15:36 HotKimchi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2011 15:31 Delathar wrote:On February 09 2011 15:21 Skeny wrote:On February 09 2011 15:13 Delathar wrote:
To be honest vegans/vegetarians dont understand the fact that if you do not have enough protein you cannot build muscle as in you will not gain muscle enough to lift 200-340 bls just based on the fact you don't have the protein your body needs to build that kind of muscle but on a lighter note i do not mind vegetarians that eat fish ect im cool with that but eating no meat at all is very bad for your body to gain the necesary muscle to work hard and gain muscle mass but those that say they are healthy from a doctors point of view let me point this out if a person that can lift 200 bls (to the guys because girls we are supposed to protect) tries to kill you/beat the crap out of you/steal your stuff would you have any chance of stopping him? probably not even with your supposedly better health you do not have the muscle nor the physical capabilities of beating him speed,power.agility,and overall being more physically fit will ultimately prove that all those times you chose to not eat meat are retarded cause your now poorer then you were but you know what do i know maybe there is something that will let you gain muscle just like eating meat although tbh i doubt it If a person tries to beat me up and can lift 340 lbs, I'm 100% sure that my lean vegitarian body will be able to outrun him. Problem solved and violence avoided. ummmmm ok i will just point this out cause this is the main reason i brought that fucking up then how the hell will you protect your fucking family? this isn't some nice world and shit like that does happen sure a gun can definitely get it done but it is not always the case and there are people that are good enough to kill you relatively easily with their bare hands even if you have a gun without the muscle/speed you still will most likely die but there are circumstances and sure it works but if i was a vegetarian and unable to protect the people i love i would immediately not be vegetarian but you know some of the fastest people i know can run for miles and eat meat on a regular basis and i guarantee you would have no chance to beat them and for an example my brother runs 3-5 miles a day(military) he lifts around 260-280 bls maxing out and runs faster then any person i know even faster then my friend adam mostly because he is huge but even then he i still faster then me and you have to understand i weigh 140 bls,my brother 153 bls, and my friend adam around 165 ,we are very light and very fast Oh shit he is faster than Adam? I better step the fuck back.
Why am I still rofl-ing to this!! LMALOOOOO!! Have I gone mad?
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Even if you converted every person on the planet to veganism that would only reduce the total number of animals that get eaten every day by like less than 1%. Is it really worth the effort?
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I'd gladly have to hunt for my meat. With a spear. In the forest. This way prey could stand a chance. But if I meet a vegan, I might hunt him...
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EPT
