On February 09 2011 14:51 KingAce wrote: The advantage of vegetarianism according to the energy pyramid; herbivores get more energy than carnivores, because plants have the most amount of energy.
Lol. Roflmao..
This is why half-knowledge is dangerous! The plant-sources have the most energy because they are quantitatively thousands of times larger than animal-sources. Animal sources are however thousands of time more energy dense in comparison to equal weight in general plant matter which consists primarily of undigestible fibre esp. to the human digestive system (not ruminants.) And also animal protein and B12 source is much better than plant... I would suggest that all the vegans keep their children on a diet that atleast contains egg and milk atleast until they are out of puberty. I know some vegan friends of mine who stay away from even these and it is really NOT ideal.
On February 09 2011 15:13 Delathar wrote: To be honest vegans/vegetarians dont understand the fact that if you do not have enough protein you cannot build muscle as in you will not gain muscle enough to lift 200-340 bls just based on the fact you don't have the protein your body needs to build that kind of muscle but on a lighter note i do not mind vegetarians that eat fish ect im cool with that but eating no meat at all is very bad for your body to gain the necesary muscle to work hard and gain muscle mass but those that say they are healthy from a doctors point of view let me point this out if a person that can lift 200 bls (to the guys because girls we are supposed to protect) tries to kill you/beat the crap out of you/steal your stuff would you have any chance of stopping him? probably not even with your supposedly better health you do not have the muscle nor the physical capabilities of beating him speed,power.agility,and overall being more physically fit will ultimately prove that all those times you chose to not eat meat are retarded cause your now poorer then you were but you know what do i know maybe there is something that will let you gain muscle just like eating meat although tbh i doubt it
If a person tries to beat me up and can lift 340 lbs, I'm 100% sure that my lean vegitarian body will be able to outrun him. Problem solved and violence avoided.
ummmmm ok i will just point this out cause this is the main reason i brought that fucking up then how the hell will you protect your fucking family? this isn't some nice world and shit like that does happen sure a gun can definitely get it done but it is not always the case and there are people that are good enough to kill you relatively easily with their bare hands even if you have a gun without the muscle/speed you still will most likely die but there are circumstances and sure it works but if i was a vegetarian and unable to protect the people i love i would immediately not be vegetarian but you know some of the fastest people i know can run for miles and eat meat on a regular basis and i guarantee you would have no chance to beat them and for an example my brother runs 3-5 miles a day(military) he lifts around 260-280 bls maxing out and runs faster then any person i know even faster then my friend adam mostly because he is huge but even then he i still faster then me and you have to understand i weigh 140 bls,my brother 153 bls, and my friend adam around 165 ,we are very light and very fast
Oh shit he is faster than Adam? I better step the fuck back.
On February 09 2011 13:25 jalstar wrote: I drive through fields of cows all the time in SoCal so I refuse to believe that all cows are locked up inside in tiny pens.
And I don't eat meat or poultry often because it's too expensive to get stuff that isn't processed garbage, so if anything I'm closer to vegetarian than carnivore.
That makes no sense. Closer to a vegetarian? Its not like being a vegetarian makes you a better human being: ascends you to a higher plane or something. Being a vegetarian just means that less animals die in the grand scheme. Being "more a vegetarian than a carnivore" doesn't mean shit. You're an omnivore. Being a carnivore doesn't make you lawful evil or any shit like that, and vegetarians aren't neutral good or anything.
Your comment pisses me off.
Being a vegetarian doesn't mean less animals die in the grand scheme of things.
You're wrong. Supply and demand. Sure 1 person not buying meat might mean that there is no change in the amount of animals tortured and killed. But if 1% of the population doesn't buy meat? That's millions of animals being saved in a generation. 5% of the population could mean billions of animals that aren't raised solely to be tortured and killed.
Ok lets roll with this, x population doesnt eat meat, they must now eat veggies and whatnot. Thus more farmland is needed, that farmland destroys ecosystems and dooms animals to their death. Furthermore upon harvest field mice are killed by the combines and whatnot.
So vegetarians get off you high horse and stop believing eating vegitables doesn't cause animals' deaths.
On February 09 2011 14:51 KingAce wrote: The advantage of vegetarianism according to the energy pyramid; herbivores get more energy than carnivores, because plants have the most amount of energy.
Lol. Roflmao..
This is why half-knowledge is dangerous! The plant-sources have the most energy because they are quantitatively thousands of times larger than animal-sources. Animal sources are however thousands of time more energy dense in comparison to equal weight in general plant matter which consists primarily of undigestible fibre esp. to the human digestive system (not ruminants.) And also animal protein and B12 source is much better than plant... I would suggest that all the vegans keep their children on a diet that atleast contains egg and milk atleast until they are out of puberty. I know some vegan friends of mine who stay away from even these and it is really NOT ideal.
Pubescent boy + vegan diet = terrible. Lack of saturated fat and hormone support from milk and meat combined with the potential estrogen effects of soy could be awful T_T
On February 09 2011 14:51 KingAce wrote: The advantage of vegetarianism according to the energy pyramid; herbivores get more energy than carnivores, because plants have the most amount of energy.
Lol. Roflmao..
This is why half-knowledge is dangerous! The plant-sources have the most energy because they are quantitatively thousands of times larger than animal-sources. Animal sources are however thousands of time more energy dense in comparison to equal weight in general plant matter which consists primarily of undigestible fibre esp. to the human digestive system (not ruminants.) And also animal protein and B12 source is much better than plant... I would suggest that all the vegans keep their children on a diet that atleast contains egg and milk atleast until they are out of puberty. I know some vegan friends of mine who stay away from even these and it is really NOT ideal.
And humans cant digest cellulose so Kings argument is invalid
Although I don't entirely condone what goes on in those SPECIFIC factories... think about this: WHAT DO ANIMALS DO TO THEMSELVES?
Animals, on a daily basis, on a global scale, hurt, maim, and ruthlessly kill eachother, just to eat another meal. Difference being? Humans take up a greater deal of the world's resources. Should we train ourselves to require less nourishment to survive? Or should we all just switch to veganism, and eventually drain all the vegetables of their nutrients?
And to be honest... that video kinda made me wanna go grill up another burger... Maybe even a double burger
I really can't image that 100 years or so ago that there would be anyone wanting to not eat meat and go vegetarian/vegan. For those vegetarians/vegans did you really switch because you didn't like what you were seeing in slaughter houses? Or you just didn't like the taste or something else.
Don't get me wrong I don't agree with what they are doing in slaughter houses, but I just can't justify cutting meat out of my diet.
Dickhead remarks like in this thread are why when offered a meat dish by someone who is unaware I am vegetarian, I have to pretend I am just a douchebag who doesn't want to eat their food rather than explain that I am vegetarian. -_____________-
On February 09 2011 16:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The problem is that vegans forget the wonderful tastes they are missing out on when they prepare things like 'tofu'
Firstly tofu is delicious. Secondly I prefer to forget the taste of meat, makes it easier to stay vegetarian. I didn't turn because i thought meat wasn't tasty.
On February 09 2011 15:46 nOia.pod wrote: I've tried, just for a week to eat like a vegan, just because I was curious and sorry to say, but I cannot understand that philosphy. I was literally starving, however I ate huge amount of food every day. Not to mention my stomach was so fucked up by the end of the week.
Don't get me wrong I don't support torturing animals, but we are omnivorous by nature, denying that is just bs.
The problem isnt veganism, the problem is that youre terrible at making vegan food ^^
Problem is, Sir, that I cannot change my body to be able to be a vegan. Yes I can force myself to deny eating meat, but why on Earth should I do that, just to prevent animals to get slaughtered? If veganism would give me +100 years I would probably do it, but I cannot see any advantage of it right now.
Oh i know what a troll is . Don't be mad but i also added that edit to bait more people :D that is how to troll in art form of never end troll
On February 09 2011 16:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The problem is that vegans forget the wonderful tastes they are missing out on when they prepare things like 'tofu'
Firstly tofu is delicious. Secondly I prefer to forget the taste of meat, makes it easier to stay vegetarian. I didn't turn because i thought meat wasn't tasty.
Tofu is not delicious, it's completely flavorless.
On February 09 2011 15:37 Lexpar wrote: It doesn't matter. Its the classic internet argument of neither of us really knowing what we're talking about and just arguing about it cause it sucks being wrong on the internet. I dunno why CL won. Neither do you.
I just linked his wiki-page to prove to that one chuckle-knuckle who was saying you cant be a proper athlete without meat derived protein.
Yeah... but the problem is you brought up the argument... you have to defend it well... which you aren't really doing. If your argument is that you can be an athlete while being a vegan, obviously that is true. Does being a vegan make you a better athlete? There really isn't any decisive evidence. Does being an omnivore make you a better athlete? Well... yeah I'd have to say so. Considering most athletes eat meat I'd have to say that most likely eating meat is more healthy than not eating meat.
It is a guess, obviously, but a guess that I'd conjecture most would side with me on.
I'm not so sure that the conclusion you've drawn is correct. Firstly all us vegans/vegitarians here are trying to say is that you can be healty and not eat meat (dispite the bigoted claims of others).
Secondly if we consider that meat eaters are more likely to be obese doesn't that mean that vegitarianism is healthier?
Honestly I wouldn't draw a conclulsion one way or the other, although from life experience I'd say it is probably easier to be healthy and eat meat. However, I do know that you can get a balanced diet being vegan or vegitarian and that will make you as healthy as you need to be (unless you have some exceptional illness).
All I really want to say (and i think I speak for others in doing so) is that you can be vegitarian/vegan and be fit and healthy.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand NOW I can go to sleep. Very well said. That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Every time I pulled up some fact to help support what I was saying, like "look you can get those vitamins from plants" or "look so and so was a vegetarian and they did just fine," I'd get pulled into a whirlwind of semantics.
On February 09 2011 14:51 KingAce wrote: The advantage of vegetarianism according to the energy pyramid; herbivores get more energy than carnivores, because plants have the most amount of energy.
What the hell, that makes absolutely no sense.
It reminds me of the best argument that I've heard for vegetarianism or veganism, which was entropy-- the energy from the sun is converted to stored energy in plants (via chlorophyll, with some energy lost to entropy) , which is then converted by animals into another form of stored energy (again, further conversion costs energy to entropy), which we then convert into usable energy (further loss of energy via entropy). By cutting out the animal intermediary we reduce the energy lost to entropy.
I am, regardless, an omnivore; but the argument is still compelling, regardless of my affinity to cheese and eggs.
I don't think the argument is so conclusive. Consider that for example cows might have more efficient way of transforming plants into fat,... than humans. If the efficiency difference is big enough eating a cow has actually less lost energy. I am not saying it is so, just that the simple analysis you did is not really foolproof. Regardless of the result I think basing argument on the lost energy is not useful. The best argument for vegetarianism (vegans are just irrational IMHO) I heard is similar, but is based on sustainability as a basis. Basically that meat-rich diet requires more land and other resources to feed the same amount of people. And by feed I mean providing all the necessary stuff (minerals, ....). And since our planet is getting kind of crowded it might be a valid argument.
On February 09 2011 15:37 Lexpar wrote: It doesn't matter. Its the classic internet argument of neither of us really knowing what we're talking about and just arguing about it cause it sucks being wrong on the internet. I dunno why CL won. Neither do you.
I just linked his wiki-page to prove to that one chuckle-knuckle who was saying you cant be a proper athlete without meat derived protein.
Yeah... but the problem is you brought up the argument... you have to defend it well... which you aren't really doing. If your argument is that you can be an athlete while being a vegan, obviously that is true. Does being a vegan make you a better athlete? There really isn't any decisive evidence. Does being an omnivore make you a better athlete? Well... yeah I'd have to say so. Considering most athletes eat meat I'd have to say that most likely eating meat is more healthy than not eating meat.
It is a guess, obviously, but a guess that I'd conjecture most would side with me on.
I'm not so sure that the conclusion you've drawn is correct. Firstly all us vegans/vegitarians here are trying to say is that you can be healty and not eat meat (dispite the bigoted claims of others).
Secondly if we consider that meat eaters are more likely to be obese doesn't that mean that vegitarianism is healthier?
Honestly I wouldn't draw a conclulsion one way or the other, although from life experience I'd say it is probably easier to be healthy and eat meat. However, I do know that you can get a balanced diet being vegan or vegitarian and that will make you as healthy as you need to be (unless you have some exceptional illness).
All I really want to say (and i think I speak for others in doing so) is that you can be vegitarian/vegan and be fit and healthy.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand NOW I can go to sleep. Very well said. That's exactly what I've been trying to say. Every time I pulled up some fact to help support what I was saying, like "look you can get those vitamins from plants" or "look so and so was a vegetarian and they did just fine," I'd get pulled into a whirlwind of semantics.
Anyway really well said. Listen to this guy.
Will do... and now I'm gonna go and make a delicious stew.
On February 09 2011 16:06 deL wrote: Dickhead remarks like in this thread are why when offered a meat dish by someone who is unaware I am vegetarian, I have to pretend I am just a douchebag who doesn't want to eat their food rather than explain that I am vegetarian. -_____________-
Or how about you just do the right thing and TELL THEM you're a vegetarian. I cannot speak for you, but from my own experience, the FOUR vegetarians we have working in our DELI have ZERO ISSUES with telling workers (and customers) that they are vegetarians.
It's the type of vegetarians who "pretend to be a douchebag" that usually are douchebags, and choose vegetarianism for the sake of being "above" people who do not share their values... So what? You're a vegetarian? Tell the people offfering you food, and next time they offer it to you, they'll remember that you are and they won't offer!
On February 09 2011 16:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The problem is that vegans forget the wonderful tastes they are missing out on when they prepare things like 'tofu'
Firstly tofu is delicious. Secondly I prefer to forget the taste of meat, makes it easier to stay vegetarian. I didn't turn because i thought meat wasn't tasty.
Tofu is not delicious, it's completely flavorless.
Not if you eat it with stirfry sauces. And it's not like meat tastes that great all by itself, steak it needs mushroom or bbq sauce at the least.
The video also has one major flaw. It perpetuates the image that every meat producer abuses and kicks his animals. As such, it's more fearmongering and propaganda than anything else.
On February 09 2011 16:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The problem is that vegans forget the wonderful tastes they are missing out on when they prepare things like 'tofu'
Firstly tofu is delicious. Secondly I prefer to forget the taste of meat, makes it easier to stay vegetarian. I didn't turn because i thought meat wasn't tasty.
Tofu is not delicious, it's completely flavorless.
Not if you eat it with stirfry sauces. And it's not like meat tastes that great all by itself, steak it needs mushroom or bbq sauce at the least.
No it doesn't >_> char is all you need for a good steak imo ^_^
On February 09 2011 13:30 HotKimchi wrote: Think about the fruits and veggies. They have rights to. Here is my video to show you what kind of agony our poor organics go through.
Dude! How could you post that and NOT post this most excellent song by Arrogant Worms: Carrot Juice Is Murder
I don't mind if people want to be vegetarian, vegan, or omnivores. I do think the industrialized slaughterhouses could clean up their act to ensure the killings are done quickly and perhaps not keep them in such confined spaces.
I also think the North American diet probably consists of far too much red meat, so backing off on the meat could be a good thing for health and environment reasons.
I'm really not into the whole animal rights thing. On the other hand, I'm all for the treating animals well- including killing them quickly to eat.
On February 09 2011 16:00 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The problem is that vegans forget the wonderful tastes they are missing out on when they prepare things like 'tofu'
Firstly tofu is delicious. Secondly I prefer to forget the taste of meat, makes it easier to stay vegetarian. I didn't turn because i thought meat wasn't tasty.
Tofu is not delicious, it's completely flavorless.
You obviously have not tried Chinese fried tofu dishes with chilli soy sauce as a dip served with simple boiled jasmine long grain rice.
EPT
