EPTOn February 09 2011 16:37 forgotten0ne wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=185282¤tpage=2#23
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=185282¤tpage=2#23
L
O
L
Is all I have to say to that.
[Veganism] Fucking humanity - Page 16
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tbrown47
United States1235 Posts
L O L Is all I have to say to that. | ||
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teh_longinator
Canada725 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:32 samuraibael wrote: Yes it is completely different to how we treat other humans. If we do this to other humans we get jailed. Anyway cruelty doesnt justify cruelty. As for minute percentage, do you imagine the other ones are mass slaughtering the animals kindly? It is cruel and unethical to eat meat. You can either accept that you are a selfish immoral person and eat it anyway (as I do), or become vegan. Those who mock vegan/vegetarians make me sick. I'm sorry sir.... would you like a bicycle for all of your backpeddling?  It is cruel and unethical to eat meat, which makes me a selfish and immoral person to eat it... HOWEVER, people who mock vegetarians sicken you... In order to tell me that it sickens you, you had to mock meat-eaters? Your argument becomes null... | ||
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deL
Australia5540 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:09 teh_longinator wrote: Or how about you just do the right thing and TELL THEM you're a vegetarian. I cannot speak for you, but from my own experience, the FOUR vegetarians we have working in our DELI have ZERO ISSUES with telling workers (and customers) that they are vegetarians. It's the type of vegetarians who "pretend to be a douchebag" that usually are douchebags, and choose vegetarianism for the sake of being "above" people who do not share their values... So what? You're a vegetarian? Tell the people offfering you food, and next time they offer it to you, they'll remember that you are and they won't offer! Doesn't really matter how your friends are treated because I was referring to myself specifically. Also I don't know if I could work in a deli, I know a job's a job but if your friends can stand being around that much meat to the point that the smell of it would get in your clothes, etc. then maybe they are not as strict a vegetarian as me or just do it to be different or whatever. And of course I do let people know in advance if, say, they invite me around to dinner. However, I don't go around telling people unless I think they might mistakenly cook something for me or if they are likely to offer me something I don't eat because then I do seem like a douchebag, going around telling everyone I am vegetarian. Also you missed the point a little that Skeny picked up on in that you end up not wanting to tell people because of the stupid remarks or treatment you get, where rather than trying to explain it you'd actually rather seem like an inconsiderate douchebag. | ||
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Elegy
United States1629 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:32 samuraibael wrote: Yes it is completely different to how we treat other humans. If we do this to other humans we get jailed. Anyway cruelty doesnt justify cruelty. As for minute percentage, do you imagine the other ones are mass slaughtering the animals kindly? It is cruel and unethical to eat meat. You can either accept that you are a selfish immoral person and eat it anyway (as I do), or become vegan. Those who mock vegan/vegetarians make me sick. There's obviously a difference between killing someone in cold blood and creating an environment where it pays to continue conflict, for example, (African diamonds), but I'm not convinced the real moral difference is all that great. If by buying meat we condemn animals to death (sometimes in brutal ways), is that all that different then buying diamonds that condemns people to death through facilitating an environment where that is the inevitable result? It's a matter of degrees of separation, at least in my eyes. I don't have any qualms about filling up my car with gas produced from oil, some of which has been imported from authoritarian dictatorships. I don't have any qualms about drinking coffee, most of which is produced by an incredibly poor belt of nations in the Americas and Africa (nations kept poor through WTO policies in some cases and who receive only a tiny pathetic slice of the industry they provide) These things, like you said, probably make me an immoral selfish bastard, but I do it anyway. I'm just not convinced people that argue for veganism on the grounds of ethical treatment of animals want to accept the fact that, through many of their other actions, they contribute, both directly and indirectly, to arguably even greater amounts of suffering. It seems to be a...half measure, I suppose. It's almost as if they maintain they are vegan for ethical reasons because it's an action they can take and perceive instant gratification, whereas some of the other examples I listed above are both more complex and further separated from the individual. | ||
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Faraday
United States553 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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teh_longinator
Canada725 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:47 deL wrote: Doesn't really matter how your friends are treated because I was referring to myself specifically. Also I don't know if I could work in a deli, I know a job's a job but if your friends can stand being around that much meat to the point that the smell of it would get in your clothes, etc. then maybe they are not as strict a vegetarian as me or just do it to be different or whatever. And of course I do let people know in advance if, say, they invite me around to dinner. However, I don't go around telling people unless I think they might mistakenly cook something for me or if they are likely to offer me something I don't eat because then I do seem like a douchebag, going around telling everyone I am vegetarian. Also you missed the point a little that Skeny picked up on in that you end up not wanting to tell people because of the stupid remarks or treatment you get, where rather than trying to explain it you'd actually rather seem like an inconsiderate douchebag. They seem to be doing a pretty good job of being vegetarians. Havn't eaten a gram of meat in the 6 years I've known them. Just, some people just don't think they're better than everyone, and accept that maybe people have their own opinions. And I don't like your little poke at my work friends... they're vegetarians because thats how they choose to live, regardless of how many times I try tricking them into eating meat... Just because you SERVE meat, doesn't make you any less of a vegetarian than someone who's afraid to look at it (you, apparently)... Just means that THEY are able to live in the real world, where meat-eaters are able to roam free, without hippies harping on us. Just because YOU don't eat meat, for whatever reasons make sense to you, doesn't mean that NO ONE should eat meat. Why should WE suffer for YOUR personal beliefs? | ||
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
Go live in the australian forests. Try telling to that poisonous snake, as he bites you, that he's so cruel and mean  ,before dying.Mercy,cruelty,animosity,anger are purely human dimensions that don't apply to nature. Nature is strictly logic. Cold logic as we humans say. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
It amazes me how people talk about being vegetarian. It's a luxury you can only have when your point of view is so skewed because you are so wealthy. There's no such thing as vegetarian in the majority of the world. The reason for the mass slaughter of animals is because it is efficient. 'Humane slaughter' (an oxymoron) just contributes to rising prices of meat, and in effect makes it so people in developing countries have a harder time receiving sustenance. You may think McDonald's is evil, but in many places in the world that aren't even that bad, like Northern Africa, McDonald's is a considerably source of sustenance for a populace that lives on pennies a day. In other places, it is considered a restaurant of high quality for a night out. Getting rid of slaughterhouses and corporations like Mcdonalds only hurts the poorest of people in the world. So if you want to be vegan for health reasons (personally, I think being vegetarian is slightly healther, you need very little meat in your diet) that's fine, but being a vegan-activist is something only people with a limited point of view and a position of luxury can afford. And you may think you're poor, but you have no idea what poor is until you leave your rich country. TL;DR Eat meat | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Vegetarian Statistics show that vegetarians have lower risk of getting cancer, heart disease and high blood pressure. According to vegetarian statistics, the probability of getting hypertension if you're a vegetarian is about ½ to 1/3 to that of a non-vegetarian.22% of Caucasian omnivores have hypertension while its only 7% for vegetarians. For African Americans 44% of omnivores likely has hypertension while only 18% have hypertension. Staying on a vegetarian diet for a whole year lowers your cholesterol by 24.3%, as stated by several vegetarian statistics. So it generally follows that most vegetarians, if not all of them have lower cholesterol levels. If you're not a vegetarian you have 25 to 50% higher chances of getting cancer as opposed to a vegetarian. This 25 to 50% vegetarian statistics is even after you have controlled your smoking, body mass index, and socioeconomic factors. Source | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:53 Belial88 wrote: As someone who's been to Africa and many other continents... It amazes me how people talk about being vegetarian. It's a luxury you can only have when your point of view is so skewed because you are so wealthy. There's no such thing as vegetarian in the majority of the world. The reason for the mass slaughter of animals is because it is efficient. 'Humane slaughter' (an oxymoron) just contributes to rising prices of meat, and in effect makes it so people in developing countries have a harder time receiving sustenance. You may think McDonald's is evil, but in many places in the world that aren't even that bad, like Northern Africa, McDonald's is a considerably source of sustenance for a populace that lives on pennies a day. In other places, it is considered a restaurant of high quality for a night out. Getting rid of slaughterhouses and corporations like Mcdonalds only hurts the poorest of people in the world. So if you want to be vegan for health reasons (personally, I think being vegetarian is slightly healther, you need very little meat in your diet) that's fine, but being a vegan-activist is something only people with a limited point of view and a position of luxury can afford. And you may think you're poor, but you have no idea what poor is until you leave your rich country. TL;DR Eat meat Qft. | ||
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alurlol
England197 Posts
I don't understand the reasons behind vegetarians but it's their choice at the end of the day, if they choose to ruin their diet by refusing to eat meat based products well then that's their problem. | ||
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Nycaloth
147 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:16 Wasteweiser wrote: Well your video just showed what humans have done to survive since the dawn of our existance. This is wrong. Humans have probably always eaten meat in one form or another, but the scale on which this is happening today is completely different from olden times. At least to me, the truly sickening thing is not the fact that animals are killed and eaten, but rather the industrial scale on which this is happening. Meat used to be something special, something that would be eaten on sundays or holidays, but with the increased standard of living in the western world, people can afford to have "special" food on a daily basis. It really is this increased demand in meat that is at the source of the animal cruelty shown in the video, since the industrial practices involved in cattle raising today make it easier to treat animals as objects in a production process rather then living animals. As has already been mentioned, increased meat production requires more and more farmland to feed the cattle from and may also play a significant role in climate issues. humans have not always put their environment at risk in order to eat a tasty meal. With the increased demand for meat in developing countries, this problem will only get worse. This has nothing to do with survival of the species anymore. The way that society handles the issue is largely unreflected and irresponsible. It seems that a lot of people just see arguments put forth by vegetarians as an attack on their person and lifestyle choice and discard it on those grounds. But i think that even a person who eats meat has to wonder if a quality product can still be obtained in conditions as outlined in this video. Chicken unable to walk and completely high on chemicals a human would need a doctors prescription for, rolling in their own feces having trouble breathing and with a severe risk of fatal heart attacks - is this a bird that you would really like to eat? In summary, eating meat is not a problem, but eating meat on a daily basis might well be. | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
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Rflcrx
503 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:52 writer22816 wrote: If you don't want to eat meat, fine, don't eat it. But stay the fuck out of my life because I'm eating whatever I want. If you would stay out of mine it would be fine, unfortunately you won't, so it is a rather bad deal for me.. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
Just eat stuff to survive, like they do in the jungle, but respect your food like we were doing way back in the days where we had no pants on, because yes, civilisation does not equal progress. | ||
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
On February 09 2011 16:53 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Humans have evolved and become omnivores yet Vegetarians seem to have a healthier life... Hm... Interesting to say the least. Source Too many variables. You are putting the average american (oh god awful diet) vs an average vegetarian. The average american is not diet aware or stuff like that,and eats random stuff (yeah your shitty hypercarbohydrated "meat") while the average vegetarian is a LOT more aware of what he eats,and what his body needs in order to survive in the right daily quantities (yeah pills that give "meaty" proteins that's what i'm talking about). | ||
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