EPTGSL Popularity - Page 30
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G3nXsiS
United States656 Posts
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Deadlyhazard
United States1177 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On January 07 2011 19:22 Highways wrote: I personally think if OGN and MBC had the rights SC2 would be so much better. I do agree though that watching SC2 is losing its appeal due to: - The game is too fast, one mistake and there are 50 lings in your base or 20 stalkers warping in. I think they need to slow down the macro mechanics somehow, especially warpgate and larvae inject. -Average game length is 5 minutes, cheese is so strong in this game that we are now at the point where the players aren't to blame. The other contributing factor is the absolute shithouse maps. Not only are they tiny but on larger maps close positions means a 5 minute game is coming up. -Lack of chat channels, everyday that passes is killing the community. I would imagine that alot of people don't play this game anymore because Bnet feels so empty. -Crap custom games search interface, when you are not in the mood for a competitive game you want to relax with custom games. But in it's current state it's so hard to find good new games because the system is so bad. It's always the same games on the list and remakes of BW and WC3 maps. Where are all the original games that this editor was going to show? Well you won't see it with this stupid popularity system. My suggestions to slow the game down: 1)BIGGER MAPS 2)Protoss - can only warp in units around your nexus, this stops all the BS warpgate cheeses and proxy allins. It also makes warp prisms more useful. 2)Zerg - for larvae injection: hatch = 2 larva lair = 3 larva hive = 4 larva 3)Terran - cooldown on mules. + Show Spoiler + Also Marauders are so OP in TvP I agree so much with the last 3 arguments (I don't think that the fact that the game is fast is a problem). The lack of chat channel hurts really much right now (Blizzard promised it and we waited 5-6 months, its really unexcusable). The mappool is terrible and encourage the last point : there is too much powerfull cheeses/all-in (this is also related to the fact that proper scouting is really hard). | ||
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
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Sadform
United Kingdom79 Posts
Maybe I can. But I'm not interested enough to look for a free stream in the first place  | ||
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:28 Tyree wrote: The landscape for eSport with RTS has changed alot in Korea, even BW has had a massive decline in viewership and attedance for the last 4 years. Alot of people attributed this to Starcraft 2 as if the game was at fault, but in all actually the decline and lack of interest started way before the game saw release of day. Alot of BW fans think that if SC2 didnt exist, their game would be super popular again in Korea, but thats just not looking at the situation correctly. Gamers in Korea are more interested in MMO's now than ever before, in 2001 MMO's were merely browser based casual games in Korea, now they are easily more popular than the more competitive 1on1 type of games like BW and SC2. However im sure even GOM knows that it took years before SC really took off in Korea, so they know they have to be patient. We foreigners are only entertained because we get to see Jinro, Idra, TLO (previously), Ret, but the actual quality of matches is lacking in general. Thats enough for us, but for Koreans they need quality games to be interested. Out of the 3 GSL finals, we only had 1 great game, MC vs Rain on LT, that is obviously my own opinion but i think many people share that or at least similar opinions. Quoting this because it makes a lot more sense then this "all-ins destroy this game" bullshit. (Of course SC2 isn't always perfect to watch at the moment, but it's shure as hell not the only reason why only 10 people show up. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
The reasons who have been stated before I will not repeat in detail. Map pools Player loyalty Cheese 5-10min games. Fact of the matter is there are different things which can effect ones spectator quality. Sound For me these are the sounds, Siege tank or even zerglings do not really have those sounds of Boom or cracklings going nuts or goons dying in a sort of crying machine blue goo. Hydras have a pitifull attack sound, like flying darts,which make a very low sound comparable to the ''spit'' sound of BW, which was overwhelming. Siege tanks barely make a boom sound anymore when they strike and you can't even hear zerglings pretty much attacking a target. Unit collison. In BW it is common to see (once a battle has ended or even still going) to see streams of units pouring down from gateways/rax/facts/hatches from all over the map(has to do with Map pools I agree). In SC2 these units come in Balls, Protoss balls, MMM balls or even roach balls exist. This does not look as impressive as BW imo. Those omg micro units. In BW you have those ow my god micro moments, compared to SC2 you barely have any. Scourge dodging, reaver control, mine sniping and MM lurker splits(hard to explain) are incredibly impressive to see. In SC2 all you have is forcefields, while it may look fancy, with smartcasting it is not incredibly hard to do or mechanically taxing as BW was ever with. The problem which has been stated before by others is that SC2 is too easy compared to BW. That is not neccesarily a bad thing especially for the casuals. But the gap between god-tier and casual gamer is significantly smaller then the BW gap. The reaver for example has been replaced by the Collosi, while this unit looks cool and makes cool bzzz sounds to roast its enemies it is not mechanically taxing or hard to ''micro'' well with it. The Stim foxer marine spread is the best thing I have seen in SC2, and it is not nearly as impressive as anything you see in a Standard BW game. This is going to sound weird and perhaps retarded, but SC2 has less flaws then BW. What I mean here is that certain things are not possible which were possible in SC1, such as Boxers's vultures bypassing pylons with mine abuse or Muta micro due to stacking. These were glitches more then anything. While I love the reaver and its concept, part of what made it so awesome was its terrible and often unpredictable Scarab AI. If reavers would make a return in sc2, they would be mechanically flawless and therefore quite overpowered. SC2 however is still young( I know this gets said often)and has 2 expansions to go, however if they do not adjust some things, such as unit collision or sounds, then I am afraid that it will never hit the spectator quality of BW. | ||
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superjoppe
Sweden3694 Posts
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kwkwookw
218 Posts
On January 07 2011 20:09 G3nXsiS wrote: I really don't understand why koreans don't wanna watch sc2. Aside from the fact sc1 is broadcasted on TV, theres no reason not to watch sc2. have you watched bw? have you watched the gsl these days? the difference in quality is not even funny.... -_-;;; | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
We also have to remember that HotS is 6~12 months away. Do you really see people waiting around that long for SC2 to really take off? | ||
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pfods
United States895 Posts
On January 07 2011 20:18 Sadform wrote: Maybe I can. But I'm not interested enough to look for a free stream in the first place http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors1/live/ "Free service for members" | ||
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Deadlyhazard
United States1177 Posts
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kwkwookw
218 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:28 Tyree wrote: The landscape for eSport with RTS has changed alot in Korea, even BW has had a massive decline in viewership and attedance for the last 4 years. Alot of people attributed this to Starcraft 2 as if the game was at fault, but in all actually the decline and lack of interest started way before the game saw release of day. Alot of BW fans think that if SC2 didnt exist, their game would be super popular again in Korea, but thats just not looking at the situation correctly. Gamers in Korea are more interested in MMO's now than ever before, in 2001 MMO's were merely browser based casual games in Korea, now they are easily more popular than the more competitive 1on1 type of games like BW and SC2. However im sure even GOM knows that it took years before SC really took off in Korea, so they know they have to be patient. We foreigners are only entertained because we get to see Jinro, Idra, TLO (previously), Ret, but the actual quality of matches is lacking in general. Thats enough for us, but for Koreans they need quality games to be interested. Out of the 3 GSL finals, we only had 1 great game, MC vs Rain on LT, that is obviously my own opinion but i think many people share that or at least similar opinions. it's true there is a decline compared to the early days but have you seen the seats for the msl/osl yesterday/today? they're absolutely packed with many people even standing outside to watch. so the "korea is cold" excuse is certainly false. and yes maybe there is less audience now but it's still pretty damn popular. the commentators for yesterday's msl said how for the 7:30pm games, there were people in line waiting since 1:00pm. i do agree with you MMO's are more popular than ever to PLAY. but that doesn't change that many koreans still WATCH a lot of bw. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
Colossi stacking over other units is pretty much the worst idea ever from a spectator point of view. | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13090 Posts
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On January 07 2011 20:09 G3nXsiS wrote: I really don't understand why koreans don't wanna watch sc2. Aside from the fact sc1 is broadcasted on TV, theres no reason not to watch sc2. I really dont understand why koreans should watch SCII. its terrible. BW is better. so why should they watch SCII?. | ||
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kwkwookw
218 Posts
On January 07 2011 20:59 rasers wrote: I really dont understand why koreans should watch SCII. its terrible. BW is better. so why should they watch SCII?. not just koreans, but anyone. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On January 07 2011 10:41 Thetan wrote: It all really comes down to the fact that the matches aren't interesting in the GSL. Foreigner games, on the other hand, are much more enjoyable - so you can't completely blame the shitty maps or balance. I think a big issue is that Koreans are playing SC2 like it's SC1. You could become a decent SC1 pro just by having good mechanics and memorizing some strict build orders - even if you don't know why the build orders you do are good. In SC1, where certain people really understood the game, you didn't need to understand the game to be good, you just had to copy the ppl who do. In SC2, the koreans all do the same cheesy flavor of the month build. They don't try to learn the game, they just try to learn builds. Which is why we see little innovation out of most of the Korean players, which makes watching Korean games boring. What I noticed in a few games during the GSL is that strategically sound players (fruitdealer, Ret) got beat because their opponents responded the *wrong* way to what they saw while fruitdeal/Ret planned ahead to counter the *right* response. I remember a story about how Roger Clemens hated rehabbing in the minor leagues, because the small mind games with pitch selection and location that gave Clemens an advantage over experienced major league players didn't work on minor leaguers who just swung at everything. I feel the same thing is happening in SC2 right now. Truly strong, awe-inspiring play and strategy cannot emerge until all the players have an advanced understanding of the game. And right now, we are nowhere close to that. You cannot play a strategy game if even one of the sides doesn't understand the strategy of the game. Apologies if it's already been addressed, but i must ask.... what in the world is this trash? | ||
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