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Angra
United States2652 Posts
GOM has essentially not allowed me to watch their games, so that's why I don't have an interest in watching them anymore. The second biggest reason is that there are way too many games going on in general. I'm burned out. There's no excitement in any of the matches because there are so many. Quality over quantity, GOM, please. | ||
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
GSL is FREE to watch in Korea. Seasonal Tickets only apply to us foreigners since GOM needs to buy a new server, hire new staff and pay Tasteless/Artosis. | ||
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Zim23
United States1681 Posts
Having Bo1 group play in your first round for Code S is not a very smart system. This league is still new, and there are a good amount of players that have absolutely no business being in Code S, but because they made it Bo1 group play some of these players are advancing. That's really and truly a travesty in my opinion. Now we're guaranteed another season of these horrible players. I think they should have stuck with Bo3 group play for this GSL at least, and then switch it up once the wheat is separated from the chaff. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
I'm so worried sc2 fails in Korea. On the other hand, I never liked GOM. Give sc2 to pro teams and get some OGN / MBC map makers to fucking mod it so it at very last gets to be an exciting game to watch. | ||
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TrainSamurai
339 Posts
On January 07 2011 17:44 dukethegold wrote: GSL is FREE to watch in Korea. Seasonal Tickets only apply to us foreigners since GOM needs to buy a new server, hire new staff and pay Tasteless/Artosis. lol thats my point. Maybe you said GSL in the korean market you would be right, but in the end I'm just speculating on the overall profit. | ||
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
On January 07 2011 17:23 dukethegold wrote: As one who spectates both Brood War and SC2, I must say the average game quality of BW is much greater than SC2. Other than the fact SC2 has better graphics, excellent English commentators and is about the game I am currently playing, GSL has very little attraction for me. One of the greater issues is that there is no fan loyalty to a particular team or a player. There is no team league in SC2 and vast majority of SC2 players are little more than random scrubs. Keep in mind that the fan bases of Boxer and Nada are all BW audiences. The only player that stepped up into fame and attract fanbase through only his SC2 achievement is Fruitdealer, who has produced poor results after GSL1. Personally, I don't really find NesTea and MC to be all that amazing, from an audience's perspective. BW games are much more worthy of spectatorship. I am uncertain how long GOM can keep this up. The prize money and production cost involved in their GSL and other tourneys are enormous. They are really gambling their company's entire asset. I am 100% certain that GOM is not profiting, but rather bordering on going into the reds. Let's face it. The VAST majority of GSL games are not worth watching. They are repetitive and the cheese fest did not help. The map pool is to be blamed, and so are other factors. A good portion of the past "epic SC2" games are really no more amazing than a standard play match in the current BW scene. They were only epic because most GSL matches end in 8 minutes. Highlighted in bold what I agree entirely with. BW is just much more spectator worthy along side it's history of it's players. You can cheer for a team or a player because they have a history. You don't see a new guy in there and then out of nowwhere the majority is cheering for him. SC2 needs to step down a little and add a real PL that is running over months not 1 week. People are fans of players because they can identify themselves with them or they are doing something the people like. Currently the majority of players are doing what we all don't like but it's not their fault. The players are playing for themselves and do everything to win. Currently it's the way fans dislike this. On January 07 2011 17:27 Deadlyfish wrote: Imo MLG is a joy to watch. Cool long games that are entertaining watch. GSL on the other hand mainly conists of 5-15 min games that arent fun to watch at all. watching MLG is really awesome, and i try not to miss a single game, even if the players arent as good as they are in the GSL. Why do foreigners play longer macro games while koreans do the opposite? Seems like it should be the other way around :S If you see the GSL you'll see they're much more abusive. If u give them a little opening they'll abuse it to win the game much more than a foreigner. As far as I've seen from replays and stream foreigners are either much more end it quick and win the game or win on the long run by macro whereas Koreans seems to me like to do as much damage as possible in the most efficient way and then end it quickly as possible. That's just my opinion of how I see it currently. On January 07 2011 17:36 XIJABERWALKIX wrote: They need a Proleague. They need some way for people to get emotionally attached to not only the game, but the players. That aspect is soooo important in e-sports. Plus they need to cool it and not do a new tournament every damn month! Take some advice from the OSL and MSL!?!?!?! Yes less leagues (like stepping it down from 7 to 4 or 5) and add a team league that covers the a span of half a year or so. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On January 07 2011 17:23 dukethegold wrote: As one who spectates both Brood War and SC2, I must say the average game quality of BW is much greater than SC2. Other than the fact SC2 has better graphics, excellent English commentators and is about the game I am currently playing, GSL has very little attraction for me. One of the greater issues is that there is no fan loyalty to a particular team or a player. There is no team league in SC2 and vast majority of SC2 players are little more than random scrubs. Keep in mind that the fan bases of Boxer and Nada are all BW audiences. The only player that stepped up into fame and attract fanbase through only his SC2 achievement is Fruitdealer, who has produced poor results after GSL1. Personally, I don't really find NesTea and MC to be all that amazing, from an audience's perspective. BW games are much more worthy of spectatorship. I am uncertain how long GOM can keep this up. The prize money and production cost involved in their GSL and other tourneys are enormous. They are really gambling their company's entire asset. I am 100% certain that GOM is not profiting, but rather bordering on going into the reds. Let's face it. The VAST majority of GSL games are not worth watching. They are repetitive and the cheese fest did not help. The map pool is to be blamed, and so are other factors. A good portion of the past "epic SC2" games are really no more amazing than a standard play match in the current BW scene. They were only epic because most GSL matches end in 8 minutes. I completly agree. I mean, I got nothing against zergbong, but ZergBong winning a major title ? wtf? The sole fact MVP isn't raping everyone shows how easy sc2 is as a game. You can disagree with that, but I'm pretty certain this is the truth. | ||
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Myrtroll
139 Posts
 I've yet to see some official stream numbers from GOM, but since most VOD's have 60k+ viewers (those would be paying ones mind), and I'm not sure if that's just the foreign ones. If it is, korean numbers should be bigger, and they should make a profit meaning it will keep going strong. If it just breaks even, with the "hype" of launch have been going down as many here says, it's all good. Then we can have HoTS regain the hype when it finally launches, while the backbone is still there. Then we can discuss numbers properly. SC2 is still doing baby steps, and though I think Blizzard should promote GSL better, it's way too early to say anything conclusive. | ||
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
On January 07 2011 17:47 TrainSamurai wrote: lol thats my point. Maybe you said GSL in the korean market you would be right, but in the end I'm just speculating on the overall profit. If you use the view number of a popular Pay to Watch match like say set 2/3/4/5/6/7 of a Grand Final or a Boxer game to estimate the number of Seasonal Ticket holders, I'd say it's around 5000-8000. It has been estimated that the average cost of running a commercial during an average popular program is $100,000 per 30-seconds in United States. To a multi-million company with marketing focus on Korea, the revenue from foreign seasonal ticket purchases is unworthy to be spoken of. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
What happened? Nothing. Nothing happened at all actually, its just that the casual viewer is gone and the current popular thing amongst korean gamers is to play MMO's more so than RTS games. Even if SC2 acheived the same balance, fun factor of BW and ofcourse the mappool the game would still be where its at in terms of popularity. Times have changed. If you told console gamers in America and Europe in 2001 that the future of console gaming is going to be about harddrives and on line gaming they would have laughed in your face and called you a idiot PC fanboy. Things change, Street Fighter III: Third Strike is considered to be a superior game to that of any version of Street Fighter II and all the Alpha games, yet it never garnered the same kind of attention nor the same kind of popularity in its own esport scene. Time simply flew by and the majority was no longer interested in 2d fighting games. Same will happen to the "Broski McCool" FPS crowd, eventually something else will come along and capture the imagination of the next generation of gamers. And that is sadly what i think happened to RTS games in Korea, no matter what Blizzard or GOM do they will never capture the massive crowd BW had in its peak. And neither will BW either, its still as good of a game as ever but time has passed it. Luckily, that time has not passed in America and Europe, where SC2 is doing amazingly well, easily becomming THE biggest competitive RTS game ever, bigger than BW or Warcraft 3 ever were. Day9, Husky, HD and many others have become e-famous just by talking about Starcraft 2. MLG was blown away by the insane interest in the game and had to expand their SC2 section, the game achieved more than WoW Arena did in 4 years at MLG in just 2-3 tournaments. But Korea i do not believe will ever get into a RTS game like it did in BW in its peak years, regardless of what maps, balance, tournament formats, commentators etc they use | ||
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ZeNd0kUn
United States331 Posts
1.What are everyone's opinions on the implications of these numbers? The number may imply a decrease in popularity of SC2 in Korea. But truth is GSL was or SC2 was never as popular as BW in Korea so comparing audiences with BW isn't helpful. The GSL has to be compared to the GSL. Many suggestions such as studio distance, weather, tournament format and cheesy playstyle have been given, but none of these can be confirmed nor can the number of viewers to begin with. 2. Does the GSL need more Korean interest to survive, or is their Western viewership enough to support their tournaments? The GSL is free for those who watch at the studio, so the real viewership that GOMtv earns is from the premier service. Figures to how that is going aren't released and without confirmation of these figures and numbers, questioning the survival of the GSL as though the lack of audience in the studio hurts GOMtv's income is out of place and misleading. 3.If the GSL ceases to exist, will Korean StarCraft 2 progamers stop playing, return to Brood War, or more regularly attend international tournaments? The phrase "If the GSL ceases to exist", implies the GSL is not successful and thus will cease to exist. However, there is no evidence apart from the lack of audience in a big studio that the GSL is unsuccessful and will cease to exist. The GSL is backed by huge sponsors such as Sony Ericsson and Blizzard itself. I don't think they're going anywhere or letting SC2 die that easily so the future of SC2 progamers is pretty much safe not to mention MC, Fruitdealer and Nestea have actually become ballers they could have never been in BW. 4.Could a regular-season, large-scale Korean tournament ever replace the GSL? Apart from the GSL there is no large-scale SC2 tournament in Korea for the time being. Whether it can be replaced ( as though it's demise is a sure thing ) depends again on the politics between Blizzard and the Korean Esport giants since Blizzard wants to be in the loop of things and the Korean Esport giants don't want Blizzard in it. 5.What about Blizzard's financial support of the tournament and involvement in Korean e-sports? Blizzard has obviously foreseen these problems occurring when they made SC2. Having big entities using the game you create and making loads of money without allowing you in the loop obviously isn't the happiest thing for a gaming company. They'd like to be a part of it or call at least some of the shots. Thus no LAN in SC2. When money and greed is involved, everyone can be seen as a villain. | ||
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
On January 07 2011 17:45 Zim23 wrote: I think the GSL suffers from a couple of things. Not being on TV makes it harder to hype the matches up, and of course this is a big problem, but more importantly I feel like they need a better and more efficient system to weed out the shit players. Having Bo1 group play in your first round for Code S is not a very smart system. This league is still new, and there are a good amount of players that have absolutely no business being in Code S, but because they made it Bo1 group play some of these players are advancing. That's really and truly a travesty in my opinion. Now we're guaranteed another season of these horrible players. I think they should have stuck with Bo3 group play for this GSL at least, and then switch it up once the wheat is separated from the chaff. Bo1 group play can work out. While I agree that there are some horrible players in Code S but this is just a matter of opinion. They are in Code S because they earned it. What way these players did it is irrelevant because the players play to win not to please the fans. The current factors in a game is just so much more focussed on fast action paced games (which is Blizzard's intention) rather than a strategical and macro game. Luckily GOM is changing and sees that current map pool is just not good enough to stimulate good maps (except a few) by using new maps on the Gisado KOTH. I'm just hoping there's some good map maker(s) that can stimulate this and maybe even help GOM by mailing them and offering their services. | ||
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Rustug
1488 Posts
Also I feel they are not promoting the Big Dogs that walked in from other games enough. They might not be the best SC2 players, yet, but they have a solid fan base that they should entice to watch. I get the feeling that GOM has a "can't we all just get along" state of mind, while the powers that be, BW, has a "take no prisoners" mentality and will defend their market share with a vengeance. In other words: The bear (GOM) needs to grow some Claws.  | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
I can't really blame the Koreans though. The last 2 seasons of GSL were, for the most part, terrible to watch. At least the games casual friendly lol. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
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tealc
109 Posts
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Tjuhl
Germany17 Posts
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On January 07 2011 17:51 dukethegold wrote: If you use the view number of a popular Pay to Watch match like say set 2/3/4/5/6/7 of a Grand Final or a Boxer game to estimate the number of Seasonal Ticket holders, I'd say it's around 5000-8000. It has been estimated that the average cost of running a commercial during an average popular program is $100,000 per 30-seconds in United States. To a multi-million company with marketing focus on Korea, the revenue from foreign seasonal ticket purchases is unworthy to be spoken of. are you really comparing a "average popular" american tv program to a korean starcraft 2 internet stream? not saying anything about your point since i have zero numbers on goms business or even # of tickets sold. but this seems like a very farfetched comparison. | ||
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
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baubo
China3370 Posts
Imagine if SC2 was introduced on OGN/MBC. Have them run commercials for it non-stop during BW matches. Have them hype up the new players and show off their pimp plays. Have them hand out ads to BW spectators on promotional materials for SC2. Have their pro-map makers make new maps for SC2 that will balance the race and make the games more exciting with more strategies involved. If only corporate egos didn't get in the way... | ||
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