EPTI did skip more than half the pages so might have missed it.
GSL Popularity - Page 26
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Refreshe
United States141 Posts
I did skip more than half the pages so might have missed it. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:09 Gold Fish wrote: Online viewer numbers are much more important. Also it's "e"-sports, most audiences prefer watching from some sort of "e"lectronic device rather than going over there live. Unlike live sports, there's no (gameplay) viewer enhancement for being there live (you actually see more action while watching at home with the full in game screen). So to recap: 1. It's cold outside. 2. It's a hassle going back and forth from the studio when you can just watch in the comfort of your home. 3. Adding onto number 2, it's also played nearby every day. I mean it's not like the summer Olympics which occurs only once every 4 years; you won't be getting huge numbers in the opening ceremony of something that's done monthly. 4. There's no real viewing enhancement for being live at the event as opposed to just watching on a computer. Online viewing numbers are the important thing. As for low attendees for BW, it's televised. This is true, so easily accessible online rather than to physically show up. I don't see why anyone would care about how many people show up to watch when it gives no bearing on how many people are actually watching online. | ||
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Lunchtime
183 Posts
Now there are SC2 columns in freaking PC World. More people are playing StarCraft in the world now than at any time during BW's life, and that's because of SC2. The Blizzard ladder is hugely responsible for that. The average person cannot compete in Korea and signing up for third party leagues will automatically turn off 90% of the people who bought the game. Blizzard did many things right with SC2. The game is also fun. The problem is that it is not like BW. What's wrong with being like C&C? C&C sold a ton and Dustin Browder's games were all fun (Generals, Battle for Middle Earth, Red Alert 2) and they were decently balanced for fun play, some competitive play, but they pale in comparison to the balance and depth of BW. They need to up the ante in the new expansion packs and patches, and fast. That's about all they need to do, game-wise. The rest is marketing. Let OSL/MSL into SC2. Let Gom focus on turning a profit from streams via advertising and the like. Allow staggered restreams across multiple regions. Start pushing SC2 in other countries. Get rid of the ridiculous requirements in Korea just to get a damn Bnet account. Put so much money into SC2 that the BW players will move over. None of this is new knowledge. Blizzard has already known they'd have to do all this. People are getting upset about a report from a competitor (OSL) that has everything to gain from making GSL and Blizzard look bad. Wake up. | ||
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Lunchtime
183 Posts
But come this spring, if the Knicks are in the playoffs, you can damn well bet the NBA's ratings in the Tristate area will go through the roof. Advertise Boxer, Nada, July, get other BW guys over. Give them a better game to play. MAKE BETTER MAPS. Basic things which we all knew about before this report was ever released. Stop panicking. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:20 phosphorylation wrote: I find it pitiful that SC2 fans are trying to justify everything. -Look at how popular BW was when it was only x months old. The beginnings of SC2 and BW could not be any different. Esports did not exist prior to BW -- what happened was something truly remarkable, and this happened because the game itself was remarkable. SC2 has a precedence in BW, massive funding, unprecedented hype, and some infrastructure (of which BW had none initially). -It is cold outside in korea, so the audience is small. If anything, I've noticed that BW audience recently has never been bigger. For many of the events recently, it is said that many people weren't able to grab a seat, even in the larger OGN venue (which seems to house at least 200 people). And we are not talking about OSL or MSL finals here. OSL Ro16 and proleague matches. -SC2 can survive without Korea since it is already so much bigger outside korea than BW was. just LOL you are superbly naive if you think this. The thing about SC2 building off of BW's infrastructure is that only a very limited portion of BW's infrastructure has gone to SC2 thus far. Right now GOMtv is the only broadcaster of SC2, and apparently it has had difficulty broadcasting legit BW tournaments during the GOM Classic, even with Jaedong, Flash, Stork and the rest of the BW gang. I think the reason for GSL's poor live viewership is not due to SC2 but instead due to GOM's overall weakness in broadcasting e-sports compared to say OGN or MBC. If OGN and MBC handled GSL, then things would probably not look so bleak. Whereas BW's was free to grow with little or no competition from other e-sports, SC2 has to directly compete and fight for an audience that already has much easier access to BW broadcasts and matches. Also, much of BW's infrastructure lies with the Pro-teams, which are under KeSPA's stranglehold. SC2's teams had to be started pretty much from scratch with no existing SC2 Proleague to support their existence. I think a lot of the problems with the Korean scene lie with the BW scene being a completely different entity from the SC2 scene, thus causing competition instead of cooperation between the two scenes. Also, if the SC2 foreign scene dies, there will be no foreign BW scene to fall back onto. | ||
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Lunchtime
183 Posts
Better maps will fix most of the cheesy all-in problems themselves. | ||
Empyrean
17038 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:21 vek wrote: Unless there are some really sweeping changes in HotS like the complete removal of all the current boring units, huge improvements to battle.net 2.0 and a map/ladder system that doesn't rely on Blizzard's direct involvement I will be giving it a miss. SC2 is just not that good. People saying it shouldn't be compared to BW or that it needs more time are delusional. It has to be compared to BW because right now BW is the better game. SC2 doesn't need more time, all more time will do is ensure no one plays it a year from now. What SC2 needs most right now are changes to the core gameplay and mechanics of the game to make it more fun to play and watch. Brood War has such solid gameplay and unit relationships that you would have to have severe brain damage to not want use it as a foundation for the core gameplay. Sure there are things in BW that need fixing and improvement - this is what many people expected SC2 was going to deliver. Instead we ended up with CnC5: Starcraft. With features including unmicroable units, hard counters, poor map design and no multiplayer advancements except a good AMS. When I think back to when I played SC2 the only thing I can honesly say was a big improvement from BW is AMS, every other change (if I am completely honest and objective) is worse from a pure competetive gaming point of view. For the casual gaming "CoD" crowd the changes are great. For me... that's not why I want to play or spectate Starcraft. Sorry, what's AMS? O_o On January 07 2011 16:18 psycow wrote: The Korean boards are full of complaints of all the all-ins and boring gameplay. Many of the fervent SC2 supporters are quietly acknowledging SC2 will never take over BW in e-sports. You can thank Dustin "WHATS COOOOOOOOOOOL?????????" Browden for how bad SC2 turned out. Why do Korean netizens blame Dustin Browder? | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
Do you know why BW was and is such a phenomenon in korea? Of course, it IS a miraculously good game. But besides that, the audience has developed a close and PERSONAL bond with individual players and teams. They go to live events, interact directly with players, and become hardcore fangirl/fanboys for players and teams. Just watch any recent proleague matches to see what i mean. They have formed a CULTURE of their own -- and this cannot be created by online setting alone. This is one of the major reasons for BW's longetivity and strength. | ||
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HalfnHalf
United States90 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:38 Lunchtime wrote: LOL. Where was esports before SC2? BW was on the decline in Korea and non-existent competitively outside of Korea in 2010 on the eve of SC2's release. Now there are SC2 columns in freaking PC World. More people are playing StarCraft in the world now than at any time during BW's life, and that's because of SC2. The Blizzard ladder is hugely responsible for that. The average person cannot compete in Korea and signing up for third party leagues will automatically turn off 90% of the people who bought the game. Blizzard did many things right with SC2. The game is also fun. The problem is that it is not like BW. What's wrong with being like C&C? C&C sold a ton and Dustin Browder's games were all fun (Generals, Battle for Middle Earth, Red Alert 2) and they were decently balanced for fun play, some competitive play, but they pale in comparison to the balance and depth of BW. They need to up the ante in the new expansion packs and patches, and fast. That's about all they need to do, game-wise. The rest is marketing. Let OSL/MSL into SC2. Let Gom focus on turning a profit from streams via advertising and the like. Allow staggered restreams across multiple regions. Start pushing SC2 in other countries. Get rid of the ridiculous requirements in Korea just to get a damn Bnet account. Put so much money into SC2 that the BW players will move over. None of this is new knowledge. Blizzard has already known they'd have to do all this. People are getting upset about a report from a competitor (OSL) that has everything to gain from making GSL and Blizzard look bad. Wake up. I agree. While Starcraft2 obviously thrived off of it's previous generation's major success, it really took a hold in the "main stream" media (so to say). Starcraft has never been played so much around the globe than ever before and we all know this is due to Starcraft2. Give it time to gain momentum from its new found recognition and I guarantee that it will indeed live up to BW and become more globally recognized as the premier e-sport game (of course, as long as Blizzard and partnerships play their cards right.) | ||
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aztrorisk
United States896 Posts
This news makes me sad | ||
ZeNd0kUn
United States331 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:21 vek wrote: needing changes to the core gameplay and mechanics of the game to make it more fun to play and watch requires time thus it needs more time.SC2 is just not that good. People saying it shouldn't be compared to BW or that it needs more time are delusional. It has to be compared to BW because right now BW is the better game. SC2 doesn't need more time, all more time will do is ensure no one plays it a year from now. What SC2 needs most right now are changes to the core gameplay and mechanics of the game to make it more fun to play and watch. | ||
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TERRANLOL
United States626 Posts
I would think the reason that people aren't showing up for GOM lies elsewhere... partially to do with the fact that nothing really feels like it's too on the line right now. First there's the group matches and then the up and down matches and for what? Some "Code S" title I personally don't even care about. New players don't even get a chance to touch the Code S players. I think the tournament style of the previous seasons were a much more reliable method of making matches seem important. | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
THERES 1200000 MILLIONS PLAYERS ON SHIPBATTLE RIGHT NOW GUYS STARCRAFT2>BROODWAR | ||
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Jimmy Raynor
902 Posts
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Flanlord
265 Posts
Subsequent GSLs just seemed to lose their luster. Staying up super late into the wee hours of the morning to watch 2 players I'd never heard of cheese one another stopped being worth it, and buying a season pass to watch the vods of the interesting games that had TL talking and excited didn't feel particularly worthwhile on my extremely limited budget. Sure, when Jin'ro, or TLO, or a player I really respect and love watching is playing, I do whatever I can to try to see the games, but it is such a small minority of the time, and they always take place at what are best described as tragic hours of the morning on week-nights. I enjoy watching SC2 more than I enjoy watching BW. I feel like although still suffering from minor balance issues that are still being fine-tuned that the game is more epic to watch. The BW games I have watched rarely (Maybe I just watch all the wrong games.) do I see maxed out armies clashing all over the map. Also - while I don't generally consider myself to be a 'graphics-whore' I do think that SC2 is substantially prettier, which can be very important when you aren't the one playing, but instead are only watching what is going on. I wonder what if anything adding team leagues and matches would do to the SC2 pro-scene. Right now, it is an individual sport. I would love to see some more mixing up of the content, I can only watch the same 10-20 players playing on the same 4-5 maps so many times before it stops being worth staying up for. I would love to see some Team vs. Team matches, a bigger focus on releasing more new maps, larger maps, and varied maps in terms of size and layout. Everyone complained about Desert Oasis, but I love it because it made for different, and I think, more interesting variation in gameplay. Right now, I'd be more likely to pay $0.50 or $1.00 for vods of 4v4 team battles between OGS and TL than I am to buy a season ticket from Gom.tv because it will most definitely be more entertaining, regardless of winner. I'd be curious to see the difference between Day[9]'s weekly viewership, particularly Funday Monday's as compared to Gom.tv's numbers, as although I'm sure Gom is getting more, that Day[9] would be frightfully close when you compare the size of the team and the incurred expenses between the two. Maybe something as simple as reduction in the prize pool and introduction of a player-awards system via viewer voting would boost views and reduce the boring all-in gameplay. Add a viewer favorite vote worth some chunk of money, or a most honorable, or team performance etc. prizes that would give players a reason to play differently than they might on the ladder, where the only thing that matters at all is the current game and the current win accentuated by a massive increase in payout for each win. Right now there is no reason not to cheese, there is no reason to be concerned about a team image etc. because in the current system, teams are basically meaningless outside of who you are practicing. Any game where that statement can be made has an easy area for massive improvement in my eyes. I like Tastosis, and I like the quality and production value that Gom.tv has managed to continue to bring to the table. I really do. But the content they have going is growing stale and rather than raising to the occasion and getting more maps going, or changing the format, they are resting on their Blizzard-enforced monopoly on the system. At any rate, I am not at all surprised at the overall decreasing interest in the GSL, but I do hope something is done to change that before the SC2 scene loses too much viewership to warrant a change being made. | ||
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Grebliv
Iceland800 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:48 TERRANLOL wrote: Blizzard made Starcraft 2 much more accessible to a Western audience. I can't count how many local tournaments there have been and how many people have gotten into Starcraft more seriously. I would think the reason that people aren't showing up for GOM lies elsewhere... partially to do with the fact that nothing really feels like it's too on the line right now. First there's the group matches and then the up and down matches and for what? Some "Code S" title I personally don't even care about. New players don't even get a chance to touch the Code S players. I think the tournament style of the previous seasons were a much more reliable method of making matches seem important. the bit that makes the code A stuff seem so silly is that it is in effect just next code S season's preliminaries*. Code A people get to touch the code S holders, but the thing is due to this being the first tourney with the system there were no Code A preliminaries for this season. The timing, having the season and the preliminaries for the next one at the same time seems to be for the same reason all these tourneys just fly by way to fast, they have such short seasons. This tourney is in some ways a lot more like the bw starleagues now, it's just the weird timings of things that are different. *afaik, dunno if they have some other, more mmediate, prizes for the code A stuff or something. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
reading this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182288 and seeing how people go "lololol so awesome SC2 dies, BW 4life!" and similar response from trolls in BW section saying "BW will die soon, kthxbai". I thought TL users as a community was way above behavior like that, but ever since beta/launch it's only gotten worse and worse  i can't be the only one who thinks that pretty sad and disapointing? | ||
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Empyrean
17038 Posts
On January 07 2011 17:02 SmoKim wrote: Am i the only one who is bothered that we as a community is split-up and almost working against eachother? reading this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182288 and seeing how people go "lololol so awesome SC2 dies, BW 4life!" and similar response from trolls in BW section saying "BW will die soon, kthxbai". I thought TL users as a community was way above behavior like that, but ever since beta/launch it's only gotten worse and worse i can't be the only one who thinks that pretty sad and disapointing? I'd be willing to posit that there's a separate SC2 community and BW community, with some members being a part of both. | ||
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Spectorials
558 Posts
I bought season pass for seasons 1 and 2. As the game has evolved I've found it has become more and more stale to watch. Am sick of watching 1 sided battles and 1 base all-ins. I don't think the problem is GOM's to fix... | ||
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OptimusYale
Korea (South)1005 Posts
BUT IMO they should clear the waters with MBC and have GOM handle the internet/international community, whilst MBC shows SC2 on Korean TV. BW is definitely in the decline. I've been here a year...and last year I had kids talking to me about the tournaments they watched on TV and their favourite players....now most of them just say 'Jaewho?' Admittedly, they still have no idea about SC2 players | ||
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