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PulseSUI
Switzerland305 Posts
go play 1v1 on some of the large 6 or 8 player maps.. sure, Zerg will be 3 or even 4 base after 15 minutes, but all they can do is mutas because of the creep mechanic. realy, all it takes is 1 detector and 2 combat units a-moving around the map and the zerg is basicly locked in to his base. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
I know for fact almost everybody is playing terran in Hungary who's any good, about 70%. Patch 1.1 wont really solve things as it itroduces minor changes on units, and no game mechanics are touched (such as PF's role, repair abuse, pathfindings, AOEs, improved/nerfed spells), and the maps remain the same Things, that look patchy: 1. True 2. reapers make no sense, they should be removed altogether instead of pathcing them, they are useless in mid or lategame, unlike any other unit 3. true 4. true 5. first part true, but archons are good, underused currently but very good 6. yeah, dont engage with ground forces, that makes perfect sense.... too bad nothing like that exist anywhere else, nor should | ||
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hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
however, i really dislike the slow effect. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
To say this does not need rebalancing of 'any kind' is laughable. What position or post would you make if say, zerglings had an ability to cliff jump? Combined with baneling ability to decimate smaller buildings as well - and hey, you have the 'zerg reaper'. Would you not be annoyed to fuck regarding the mobility and potential abuse of the unit? Welcome to the world of zerg. | ||
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Salvarias
Denmark231 Posts
But on a seriose note, it's blizzard's game, if they feel there is need for balance changes in order for the game to maintain the high player count, they will do whatever it takes, they risk losing to many players if they don't throw out balance patches. | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
On September 07 2010 19:38 sadyque wrote: I seriously doubt blizz reads this forum That sounds kinda naive tbh. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On September 07 2010 19:56 PulseSUI wrote: calling for biger maps to help zerg is insane! go play 1v1 on some of the large 6 or 8 player maps.. sure, Zerg will be 3 or even 4 base after 15 minutes, but all they can do is mutas because of the creep mechanic. realy, all it takes is 1 detector and 2 combat units a-moving around the map and the zerg is basicly locked in to his base. Ummm ... nope ... thats what the "dump creep" mechanic of the Overlord and the Nydus worm is for. If we go by your logic then Zerg can never fight on any map, because there is no creep ... especially in the beginning. Just get an extra queen and drop 4 tumors next to each other and cover the map in minutes. With a Nydus worm or an Overlord you can start anywhere on the map and if the opponent spends his time killing these tumors he will be wasting time. You simply need to make many more tumors than the opponent cares to kill and that is quite easy. You can also just gather your army in some Overlords and drop them into the enemies base while the Overlords start spreading creep. Since Overlords are quite resilient they are doing the same as the SCVs of Terrans do when they are pulled for an attack. P.S.: What would YOU do to fix the game? Nerf everyone else to uselessness? | ||
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JamieDukes
Russian Federation82 Posts
1) reapers are too easy to mass and an extra 5s is going to make it slightly easier for the zerg to deal with it 2) the zealot change. not too sure about this but 2 gating is very dangerous versus Zerg and proxy 2 gating is common 3) if you've ever seen a Morrowesque push out with Turrets + Siege Tanks you would know that its almost impossible to beat specialy on small maps. 4) battlecruisers are very hard to stop as Protoss if they are rushed especially if they are being repaired. Charged voidrays is about the only thing. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
If you're going to disagree with somebody, don't use facts about the person. Just tear apart their arguments. It's just soooo obnoxious to keep hearing: "Oh, that's what any Terran would say" "Of course you play Terran" "Oh you're just another Zerg that needs to L2P" Etc etc etc... CUT IT OUT. Just reply to the points people make, there is no need for this ad hominem bullshit. | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
On September 07 2010 19:30 Acritter wrote: Let's try taking a different tack in terms of "balance", OP. To be precise, let's throw balance out the window and say that what's important is that the game is fun. Right now, the game isn't fun for many Zerg players. It isn't fun to have your base raped by Reapers and be forced to play perfectly to counter it. It isn't fun to have to prepare for a thousand and one harassment and early pressure strategies. It isn't fun to manage an excellent economy and have your army killed by much simpler compositions with much lower control. From my one-game experience as Terran, I can also say that it isn't fun to just mass Marauders and win, but I'm not experienced enough with them to make serious judgment calls. In order for Starcraft II to succeed, it needs to be played for a long time. In order for it to be played for a long time, it needs to be fun and interesting to watch. 5rax Reaper is anything but. The thing that made BW such a fucking INCREDIBLE game was that all races were fun and interesting to watch. You watch ZvT in BW, it's pressure with lings into counterpressure with MM ball into counterpressure with Mutas into counterpressure with Science Vessels into an endgame with Defilers, Cracklings, and Ultras. Every race has its period of aggression, and they can always be aggressive back with a little bit of Muta harass or an MM push into a third. That's pretty exciting. SC2 ZvT? 1rax Reaper aggression into 3rax Reaper aggression into 5rax Reaper aggression with an expo into 5rax Marauder aggression possibly into counterpressure with Mutas, and over half the time the games don't get past that point. That's BORING. Having all the core decisions and initiative lie with one player is a recipe for dull, solitaire-esque games. That needs to be fixed. This post should have his own thread. Can't believe everyone rambles about hard to grasp stuff like "balance" and misses the essential point summed up in a gem like this post. Respect to you sir, for putting it thus nicely. | ||
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BadBinky
Finland649 Posts
It seems you don't understand the TvZ reaper build. Forcing zerg to do all the stuff they do to prevent this puts terran ahead even if he doesn't kill anything but a bunch of zerglings. By the time the zerg can move out terran has an expansion running and he's already got his production facilities up with having more scv's than zerg has drones. Forcing tumors, lings and tech while delaying expansion is basically the same thing as killing drones. Not to mention that while the sole presence of reapers accomplish that you can actually still kill drones, lings and queens. This might sound elitist but from what I've seen terrans below 1200 can't really pull off the reaper build properly. As you're a random low diamond player the chances for you to face a proper reaper TvZ are nonexistent. | ||
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Grantler
United States228 Posts
On September 07 2010 14:55 StupidFatHobbit wrote: This is just screaming "Terran player, don't nerf my op race I don't want to lose games." User was temp banned for this post. This is also what I got from it. Regardless, changes need to be made to allow the game to evolve. | ||
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PimpMobeel
120 Posts
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PimpMobeel
120 Posts
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nimbim
Germany983 Posts
Except for the part about maps, I don't understand how one would write this post. You completely ignored Blizzard's reasoning for the incoming changes and just wrote down what you like/dislike. Also, you don't seem to realize that siege tank balls will still roflstomp anything on the ground. Did you ever actually build a carrier? They are insane. | ||
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JamieDukes
Russian Federation82 Posts
On September 07 2010 21:57 PimpMobeel wrote: I agree with the pawn analogy. Battlecruisers especially i would think needed a small buff, they are already so badly countered if spotted. Likewise I would think carriers and mothership need small buffs too, especially the carrier - the only thing going for the carrier is that it beats vikings. Zerg t3 on the other hand is quite the force. battlecruiser buff? what exactly counters battlecruisers so easily? seeing a starport with a techlab, protoss have to get a robo incase of cloaked banshees. no units from the robo help at all against battlecruisers protoss simply dont have the gas to get a starport and robotics early so unless you scout the fusion core early its difficult to defend. terran can also use the spare minerals to mass a bio army which would beat pure stalker. | ||
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PimpMobeel
120 Posts
On September 07 2010 22:03 JamieDukes wrote: battlecruiser buff? what exactly counters battlecruisers so easily? seeing a starport with a techlab, protoss have to get a robo incase of cloaked banshees. no units from the robo help at all against battlecruisers protoss simply dont have the gas to get a starport and robotics early so unless you scout the fusion core early its difficult to defend. terran can also use the spare minerals to mass a bio army which would beat pure stalker. I was thinking more in the late game. Of course battlecruiser rushes are deadly early game if spotted late. | ||
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Konsume
Canada466 Posts
* Zealot build time and warpgate cooldown +5 seconds each: I'd leave them alone. Altho I agree that the gateway time isn't pretty hard to deal with, the warpgate time is totaly needed. Hell a good protoss can litteraly dump his minerals wayyyyyy too easily and for some reason the Zealot has just got better. In BW you could kill a zealot with 2 lings (maybe 3) now it takes about 6 lings. Zealots are really effective in SC2 and being able to mass them super early to pressure the fast expand is kinda urhh! * Reapers and bunkers build time +5 seconds: I'd leave them also alone. There were no issues with the bunker at all. Reapers are fraeking overpowered dude. Yes it's some gaz investment but hell... you make sure that there is no early pressure and you can freely expand where the zerg fails to do it most of the time. Hell even Morrow said it was overpowered and most "top zergs" including Dimaga, IdrA, Slush, Machine.... name it fails to defend properly against it. * Siege tank nerf vs. light and unarmored: My essay implies of course that this is unnecessary. It also doesn't make sense. These units should be blasted by the siege tanks all the more. I agree with you on this one, but on another hand I would nerf thors. Cause as it is right now it's not rare to see 1 thor get over 50+ kills without any real micros or tricks. this is disgusting. * Battlecruisers damage lowering: Only necessary because of the lack of spells like plague. I can't comment on this one cause zerg has corruptors which obliterate cruizers * Ultralisk damage lowering and removal of the ram: I completely agree on the removal. I don't think that the damage lowering will have a large impact. It's ok. I totaly agree on removing head butting but... seriously lowering damage? As it is right now ultralisks is a fail unit. Hell it's melee and with the current map pool they just get stucked everywhere. I RARELY make more than 3 of those at the same time cause it's useless to have more. * Neural parasite is broken. It adds a factor of uncertainty because the player doesn't know in which favor the situation will tip. It is also barely viable against big late game armies. Some change to its mechanics would be adorable. Agree... NP is just retarded * Reapers pathfinding AI. They are sometimes stuck. Giving more pathing to a unit that is already too good early game?? no thx * The marauder might need to lose stim. Maybe the slow-effect should in turn be improved. yes! please yes! or just remove bonus damage from buildings at least. Since all buildings are "armored" marauders are doing 100% damage on it. Stim and it's 52983752352 dps * Psi storm is worse than in scbw. Not necessarily to be patched. no need, it was too good and already nerfed it. * Other units which might need some tweaks: corruptor with corruption. It lacks complexity when compared to the devourer. Mothership, carriers, archons are seldom used. Agreed * Planetary fortresses are often mentioned, but are immobile, lack air-defence and don't have mules and scans. They are probably ok, as long as the player doesn't engage them with a ground force. They are wayyyyyyy too resilient... hell it almost takes a 200/200 army just to take one down! but they're the least of my concerns. This week-end I went from 1100 to 750 and now back at around 900 simple cause of 3things. Note: I know that I'm far from playing at pro level. I know I still have some trouble with my unit control and I'm not perfect but I'm playing at my level vs other players of my level. 1. Reapers harass are pretty hard to stop. I was getting murdered even with roaches and the counter push with marauders were just finishing me off. 2. 4 gates toss that were dissimating me even with 5 sunkens. 3. Super harass terran with cloacked banshees, drop hellions, clocked banshee, drop hellions, cloacked banshee, mass marine push, drop hellions, vicking OV hunter, tank push = gg! I watched the replay in EACH games I lost and I would say that 90% of the time I was at like 150apm (and good ones I'm not spaming) and most of my lost were to 50apm dudes that were just a+moving. | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
On September 07 2010 22:08 Konsume wrote: This week-end I went from 1100 to 750 and now back at around 900 simple cause of 3things. Note: I know that I'm far from playing at pro level. I know I still have some trouble with my unit control and I'm not perfect but I'm playing at my level vs other players of my level. 1. Reapers harass are pretty hard to stop. I was getting murdered even with roaches and the counter push with marauders were just finishing me off. 2. 4 gates toss that were dissimating me even with 5 sunkens. 3. Super harass terran with cloacked banshees, drop hellions, clocked banshee, drop hellions, cloacked banshee, mass marine push, drop hellions, vicking OV hunter, tank push = gg! I watched the replay in EACH games I lost and I would say that 90% of the time I was at like 150apm (and good ones I'm not spaming) and most of my lost were to 50apm dudes that were just a+moving. perhaps you should try a nydus worm? sarcasim. i feel your pain, its always annoying to lose. but losing to people who spend a third of the effort into the game as you do and still get completely demolished in a 1 sided fight is lame. unfortunatly the curse of the swarm, until your an idralsik or a dimagaoch your gonna get rolled on ha ha | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
It will devolve(I think it did already) into balance whine,flame wars,not bringing anything precious to the situation of the game.You don't have the patch yet and You started to whine about it already,seriously? Situation report did not say: WELL WE WILL DO THAT AND THAT AND NOTHING ELSE. | ||
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