Why it is too early to make severe balance changes - Page 2

On September 07 2010 17:04 lololol wrote:
I don't like the reaper change at all. Reapers are used only early game for one build in one matchup(and the odd scout) and what they are doing is even further restricting the reapers to that specific build and nothing else. They just need to be available later, but with better stats.

On September 07 2010 15:05 AJMcSpiffy wrote:
In one fell swoop, Thors went from staple anti muta units to being almost worthless against them.

On September 07 2010 16:24 hdkhang wrote:
RE: 5 rax reaper
The problem isn't that it can't be beat, the problem is that the economic harrassment is too punishing and all the while the Terran opponent has time to expand. For a strategy with the devastating effectiveness of an all-in to also have a viable follow up strategy is one of the main issues, the other being the multitude of openings possible.

Reapers already have superior mobility, yet they get a cheap upgrade to get superior move speed as well. If that weren't enough, they have the ability to destroy buildings quite easily rendering static defense impotent. Instead of a 5 second increase to build time, they should have nitro packs cost 100/100 like ling speed and remove their building damage.

On September 07 2010 16:24 hdkhang wrote:
@Rabiator
Maps are a problem, but large maps won't solve all the problems either. A good surround would make things a little easier, but without units able to effectively destroy a bio ball at reasonable cost the followup is pretty much nonexistent.

Recall the Dimaga v Tarson match at IEM on Metalopolis. Day9 and Apollo were constantly amazed at how Tarson always came out ahead of Dimaga in food count whenever they clashed... I just sat there with a big fat "DUH" expression on my face. Banelings are a 1 time use unit. So of course if Dimaga has to blow up a bunch of banelings he is going to wind up with less food. The fact that the number of units needed to destroy that army was greater in food count shows how ineffective the Zerg units are even on a map like metalopolis where you can usually get multiple flanking positions. With the improved unit pathing it becomes even easier to use marauders as shields.

On September 07 2010 17:10 Ghad wrote:


Worthless, as in 'no longer completely hilarious, but still good value'?

10 muta is 1000 gas and 1000 minerals, 3 thors plus 10 marines is 600 gas, 1400 mineral. Even when taking muta mobility into consideration, calling that 'almost worthless' is a huge joke.

On September 07 2010 15:38 kickinhead wrote:
It's not too early...

It's too late for my taste, Blizzard can't be that ignorant and not see that:

- Reapers and Marauders are heavily overpowered.

- Almost any kind of early timing-push (or 4-gateway-timing-push) is extremely hard for Zerg to hold (they have to sacrifice their economy basically).

- Structural defense is underpowered (cuz stuff like Marauders and Reapers deal ridiculous DMG).

- Zerg has too less options early on and their basic Unit (Zergling) is by far the weakest compared to Zealot/Marine.

- Terran Upgrades like Nitro Packs, Blue-Flames for Hellions and Stim Packs are too cheap and good, while Zergs Upgrades are too expensive and bad (Adrenalin-Upgrade for Zerglings)

- Tech Lab is too cheap, builds too fast and opens up too many Options for Terran.

- The Creep-Mechanic is totally f'd up...

- Several Skills like Neural parasite, 250mm Cannon and HSM have been nerfed to death with no apparent reason.

- THEIR MAPS FKN SUCK!

None of the changes Blizzard mentioned so far won't do anything to make the game more balanced. I mean: 5 sec's more on the reapers? With 5-rax-reapers, you can't build Reapers out of all raxes at any time anyways until the expansion is fully up- and running, so absolutely no harm done there. zealot -5 sec? Who cares if all the other Warpgate-Units still have a much too short cooldown for Zerg to hold without saccing their economy (while Protoss can pump Probes and even expand...). BC-change is ridiculous and the Siege-Tank-nerf will only make Tanks less viable in TvP, but everyone uses Bio in TvP anyways, so who cares?... rly, it's like Blizzard randomly throws dart at the wall with different Units and Stat-buff's/nerf and then implements them into the game - how can they be so oblivious?

On September 07 2010 17:20 Ghad wrote:
If reapers were only that good against light units so that it fell into a harassment niche I would dislike it much less. The speed of which they can take out a hatch is completely disgusting.

On September 07 2010 17:28 Kelekkis wrote:

This guy pretty much summed my thoughts too. Just wanna add few things:

Zergling's AI should be improved or changed completely. It would wise to change it to so they attack their closest target. This would make countering thor pushes with repairing scvs a bit easier. There is probably some kind trick to this too (like letting zerglings run around thor and hitting hold position), but making this AI change would make them a lot better harassing units when killing enemy workers.

Creep should be a bonus, not a thing that you are forced to spread or you lose. (atleast in early game against T)

Currently 2-Proxy-Gateways feels way too strong against zerg, if zerg is going standard (13-14 pool etc.).

Also I don't really accept that protoss can just warp in more units reinforcing their attacks immediately. Where is defender's advantage?

And about reapers... I don't really know are they THAT good. I pretty much always go 14 pool 15 hatch against T and I can hold reapers just fine. Could be that I haven't played against good T with reapers yet. Ofc they do damage even though they don't kill anything, which is kinda stupid.