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On September 09 2010 13:30 SuperGnu wrote:Show nested quote +
[*]Ultralisk damage lowering and removal of the ram:
I completely agree on the removal. I don't think that the damage lowering will have a large impact. It's ok.
It will destroy their ability to be used as fortification breakers. Yea who the F cares if they do splash on buildings when there is like 2 buildings affected, supplies and pylons... Rest of the time they will feel like VERY big zerglings on a building.
I would just like to clarify that I think the splash is for hitting a Planetary Fortress while also killing SCVs.
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I've been playing for some time now and the only unit I have huge trouble with is marauder. Stim+slow seems like too much don't you think. Can I have zealots with blink and charge please?
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On September 09 2010 13:30 SuperGnu wrote:Show nested quote +
[*]Ultralisk damage lowering and removal of the ram:
I completely agree on the removal. I don't think that the damage lowering will have a large impact. It's ok.
It will destroy their ability to be used as fortification breakers. Yea who the F cares if they do splash on buildings when there is like 2 buildings affected, supplies and pylons... Rest of the time they will feel like VERY big zerglings on a building.
A fully attack upgraded ultra does more damage to armored with its normal attack than when using ram. That is going to be a buff actually, not a nerf. Splashing area around building = good for us
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Reapers contains the Zerg entirely, giving the Terran a free expo, and also delaying the Zergs expo. With the mules, this only makes it worse.
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On September 09 2010 13:30 SuperGnu wrote:Show nested quote +
[*]Ultralisk damage lowering and removal of the ram:
I completely agree on the removal. I don't think that the damage lowering will have a large impact. It's ok.
It will destroy their ability to be used as fortification breakers. Yea who the F cares if they do splash on buildings when there is like 2 buildings affected, supplies and pylons... Rest of the time they will feel like VERY big zerglings on a building.
1. ram was very slow
2. normal slicing attack is faster
it's not all about the damage, you have to take attack speed into account.
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On September 09 2010 13:15 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 12:55 Drowsy wrote:On September 08 2010 20:06 heishe wrote:On September 08 2010 16:54 Velr wrote:
I have zero clue about Protoss and can just randomly beat Mid-Diamond-Zergs witheout too big problems, something has gone horribly wrong. actually, that sentence describes perfectly why terran and protoss are overpowered vs zerg (or why zerg is so much harder to play than the other two races). if you have a rough clue of how to execute a 4gate zeal/sentry or m&m push, you will easily crush 600-800 diamond zerg players with a very very good win rate (75%+ against 600-800 easily doable). i'm 100% sure that if dimaga or idra off-raced against other high-ranked zerg players, they would get a good amount of wins too, even though basically totally sucking with the race. with zerg, something like that would just absolutely never be possible. you won't see a SINGLE terran or protoss who "roughly knows how to execute a certain zerg bo" and crush 600-800 diamond terran or protoss players or some terran or toss pro who offraces as zerg and beats terrans and toss if he doesn't have a large amount of playtime with zerg beforehand. I'm would be fine with zerg being so much harder than the other races, if there actually was some kind of reward for it. but there isn't. on top of it you'll still lose to one of the two million possible cheeses even though being a lot better than your opponent. This post articulates it perfectly, especially regarding terran/protoss to zerg carryover vs zerg carryover to terran/protoss. I think a fundamental problem with sc2 right now is that there are too many "build order Russian roulette" situations, especially in vs z matchups. Zerg can take the bullet to the head by picking the wrong build order and lose before the scouting drone is out, but if they "win", they just get to stay alive and play the game. There are too many ways for mechanically terrible players to completely circumvent ever being put in mechanically challenging situations. In scbw you couldn't get very far with bad mechanics. You could win some cheese games, but scouting and countering cheesy builds, which are cheesy because they don't require any substantial mechanical skills to execute, was a far more straightforward process and didn't demand as humongous of a sacrifice to do so. Playing "safe" is punished too severely in sc2; it's impossible to force your opponent to play a straightforward game. In scbw this wasn't as true, and "safe" builds used to direct the flow of the game toward a more straightforward mechanical game wouldn't put you hopelessly far behind. After 2 weeks of not playing any Terran at all (switched to Zerg - YES, I actually did...), I played a BO3 in a Tournament Quarterfinals against a 800+ Diamond Zerg. It was soooo freaking ridiculous: I made soo many mistakes, had no clue what I was doing but totally pwn him just with a straight-up attack. Here are some of my hilarous mistakes I made: - Accidentally scanned my base when I wanted to make a supply-calldown - Accidentally researched Concussive Shells and not Nitro packs - Because the opponent chose Steppes of war, I thought he was gonna 7pool me or sth, so I built a Barracks at about 10, then just built a rafinery when I thought was right - I just had a total mess of a build-order that didn't make sense at all. --> And this all in one game! I just won with a simple Stimmed Marauder+Hellion timing attack about 10 mins into the game and there was nothing the Zerg could've done to stop me. I mean c'mon - It seems I can't lose as Terran in TvZ even if I wanted to! After the games I was ashamed of myself btw, but I just didn't want to play a ZvZ in a tournament with a big prize-pool, just cuz ZvZ is so random...
people need to pay this post some attention.
this player admits his HUGE HORRIBLE blunders in a tournement and still walks over a zerg player. now if he had played zerg and made those kind of mistakes he would have lost instantly.
something about that is slightly off haha
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On September 09 2010 15:43 TyrantPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 13:15 kickinhead wrote:On September 09 2010 12:55 Drowsy wrote:On September 08 2010 20:06 heishe wrote:On September 08 2010 16:54 Velr wrote:
I have zero clue about Protoss and can just randomly beat Mid-Diamond-Zergs witheout too big problems, something has gone horribly wrong. actually, that sentence describes perfectly why terran and protoss are overpowered vs zerg (or why zerg is so much harder to play than the other two races). if you have a rough clue of how to execute a 4gate zeal/sentry or m&m push, you will easily crush 600-800 diamond zerg players with a very very good win rate (75%+ against 600-800 easily doable). i'm 100% sure that if dimaga or idra off-raced against other high-ranked zerg players, they would get a good amount of wins too, even though basically totally sucking with the race. with zerg, something like that would just absolutely never be possible. you won't see a SINGLE terran or protoss who "roughly knows how to execute a certain zerg bo" and crush 600-800 diamond terran or protoss players or some terran or toss pro who offraces as zerg and beats terrans and toss if he doesn't have a large amount of playtime with zerg beforehand. I'm would be fine with zerg being so much harder than the other races, if there actually was some kind of reward for it. but there isn't. on top of it you'll still lose to one of the two million possible cheeses even though being a lot better than your opponent. This post articulates it perfectly, especially regarding terran/protoss to zerg carryover vs zerg carryover to terran/protoss. I think a fundamental problem with sc2 right now is that there are too many "build order Russian roulette" situations, especially in vs z matchups. Zerg can take the bullet to the head by picking the wrong build order and lose before the scouting drone is out, but if they "win", they just get to stay alive and play the game. There are too many ways for mechanically terrible players to completely circumvent ever being put in mechanically challenging situations. In scbw you couldn't get very far with bad mechanics. You could win some cheese games, but scouting and countering cheesy builds, which are cheesy because they don't require any substantial mechanical skills to execute, was a far more straightforward process and didn't demand as humongous of a sacrifice to do so. Playing "safe" is punished too severely in sc2; it's impossible to force your opponent to play a straightforward game. In scbw this wasn't as true, and "safe" builds used to direct the flow of the game toward a more straightforward mechanical game wouldn't put you hopelessly far behind. After 2 weeks of not playing any Terran at all (switched to Zerg - YES, I actually did...), I played a BO3 in a Tournament Quarterfinals against a 800+ Diamond Zerg. It was soooo freaking ridiculous: I made soo many mistakes, had no clue what I was doing but totally pwn him just with a straight-up attack. Here are some of my hilarous mistakes I made: - Accidentally scanned my base when I wanted to make a supply-calldown - Accidentally researched Concussive Shells and not Nitro packs - Because the opponent chose Steppes of war, I thought he was gonna 7pool me or sth, so I built a Barracks at about 10, then just built a rafinery when I thought was right - I just had a total mess of a build-order that didn't make sense at all. --> And this all in one game! I just won with a simple Stimmed Marauder+Hellion timing attack about 10 mins into the game and there was nothing the Zerg could've done to stop me. I mean c'mon - It seems I can't lose as Terran in TvZ even if I wanted to! After the games I was ashamed of myself btw, but I just didn't want to play a ZvZ in a tournament with a big prize-pool, just cuz ZvZ is so random... people need to pay this post some attention. this player admits his HUGE HORRIBLE blunders in a tournement and still walks over a zerg player. now if he had played zerg and made those kind of mistakes he would have lost instantly. something about that is slightly off haha
Wooow, are you like a... Commentator or sth? ^^'
It really is shocking how little understanding of how to macro, when to expand, what to do in certain situations etc. you need to win with Terran or as Protoss.
I recently played 10 games on the Ladder (1100+ Diamond Zerg) and did the 5-Roach-Rush against every toss and terran and won 8 totally easy. Really, the Opponents just did their normal build they always do. Some even scouted me, but they obviously didn't know what I was up to nor how to stop me from winning with this, pretty easy to hold off, rush. It literally is the only strategy for punishin Protoss that go 4-warpgate or Terran that do mass-reapers and yet they can't even scout it out and react appropriately - I CALL HUGE NOOBS!
As a Zerg, you need to scout so well and adapt so fast, you'll shit brix when you play Terran or Protoss against Zerg and see that they basically can play the same build with minimal adaptations and scouting and win nonetheless.
Really, try it out and shit brixx my fellow Zergs! You can basically play down ur strat without ever seeing what your opponent is doing:
Wall-in so it's baneling-proof, harrass a bit with Reaper/Hellion, build your standard Marauder/Marine-Army, build 1-2 Turrets in the base to totally negate everything burrowed or Mutas, attack and maybe leave 1 marine in the base that could shoot down Nydus Worms. There is next to nothing Zerg could do to surprise the opponent or force him into building a certain Unit-combination. I only know one strategy that forces the Zerg into doing what you want and that is burrowed banelings (contain him, make him waste scans and/or build ravens), but because they can't move underground, you just have to be lucky enough that the opponent just walks right over them or doesn't kill you before burrow is finished (which is, ridiculously enough, a T2-Upgrade... -.-°)
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On September 09 2010 15:55 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 15:43 TyrantPotato wrote:On September 09 2010 13:15 kickinhead wrote:On September 09 2010 12:55 Drowsy wrote:On September 08 2010 20:06 heishe wrote:On September 08 2010 16:54 Velr wrote:
I have zero clue about Protoss and can just randomly beat Mid-Diamond-Zergs witheout too big problems, something has gone horribly wrong. actually, that sentence describes perfectly why terran and protoss are overpowered vs zerg (or why zerg is so much harder to play than the other two races). if you have a rough clue of how to execute a 4gate zeal/sentry or m&m push, you will easily crush 600-800 diamond zerg players with a very very good win rate (75%+ against 600-800 easily doable). i'm 100% sure that if dimaga or idra off-raced against other high-ranked zerg players, they would get a good amount of wins too, even though basically totally sucking with the race. with zerg, something like that would just absolutely never be possible. you won't see a SINGLE terran or protoss who "roughly knows how to execute a certain zerg bo" and crush 600-800 diamond terran or protoss players or some terran or toss pro who offraces as zerg and beats terrans and toss if he doesn't have a large amount of playtime with zerg beforehand. I'm would be fine with zerg being so much harder than the other races, if there actually was some kind of reward for it. but there isn't. on top of it you'll still lose to one of the two million possible cheeses even though being a lot better than your opponent. This post articulates it perfectly, especially regarding terran/protoss to zerg carryover vs zerg carryover to terran/protoss. I think a fundamental problem with sc2 right now is that there are too many "build order Russian roulette" situations, especially in vs z matchups. Zerg can take the bullet to the head by picking the wrong build order and lose before the scouting drone is out, but if they "win", they just get to stay alive and play the game. There are too many ways for mechanically terrible players to completely circumvent ever being put in mechanically challenging situations. In scbw you couldn't get very far with bad mechanics. You could win some cheese games, but scouting and countering cheesy builds, which are cheesy because they don't require any substantial mechanical skills to execute, was a far more straightforward process and didn't demand as humongous of a sacrifice to do so. Playing "safe" is punished too severely in sc2; it's impossible to force your opponent to play a straightforward game. In scbw this wasn't as true, and "safe" builds used to direct the flow of the game toward a more straightforward mechanical game wouldn't put you hopelessly far behind. After 2 weeks of not playing any Terran at all (switched to Zerg - YES, I actually did...), I played a BO3 in a Tournament Quarterfinals against a 800+ Diamond Zerg. It was soooo freaking ridiculous: I made soo many mistakes, had no clue what I was doing but totally pwn him just with a straight-up attack. Here are some of my hilarous mistakes I made: - Accidentally scanned my base when I wanted to make a supply-calldown - Accidentally researched Concussive Shells and not Nitro packs - Because the opponent chose Steppes of war, I thought he was gonna 7pool me or sth, so I built a Barracks at about 10, then just built a rafinery when I thought was right - I just had a total mess of a build-order that didn't make sense at all. --> And this all in one game! I just won with a simple Stimmed Marauder+Hellion timing attack about 10 mins into the game and there was nothing the Zerg could've done to stop me. I mean c'mon - It seems I can't lose as Terran in TvZ even if I wanted to! After the games I was ashamed of myself btw, but I just didn't want to play a ZvZ in a tournament with a big prize-pool, just cuz ZvZ is so random... people need to pay this post some attention. this player admits his HUGE HORRIBLE blunders in a tournement and still walks over a zerg player. now if he had played zerg and made those kind of mistakes he would have lost instantly. something about that is slightly off haha Wooow, are you like a... Commentator or sth? ^^' It really is shocking how little understanding of how to macro, when to expand, what to do in certain situations etc. you need to win with Terran or as Protoss. I recently played 10 games on the Ladder (1100+ Diamond Zerg) and did the 5-Roach-Rush against every toss and terran and won 8 totally easy. Really, the Opponents just did their normal build they always do. Some even scouted me, but they obviously didn't know what I was up to nor how to stop me from winning with this, pretty easy to hold off rush. As a Zerg, you need to scout so well and adapt so fast, you'll shit brix when you play Terran or Protoss against Zerg and see that they basically can play the same build with minimal adaptations and scouting and win nonetheless. Really, try it out and shit brixx my fellow Zergs! You can basically play down ur strat without ever seeing what your opponent is doing: Wall-in so it's baneling-proof, harrass a bit with Reaper/Hellion, build your standard Marauder/Marine-Army, build 1-2 Turrets in the base to totally negate everything burrowed or Mutas, attack and maybe leave 1 marine in the base that could shoot down Nydus Worms. There is nothing Zerg could do to surprise the opponent or force him into building a certain Unit-combination. I only know one strategy that forces the Zerg into doing what you want and that is burrowed banelings (contain him, make him waste scans and/or build ravens), but because they can't move underground, you just have to be lucky enough that the opponent just walks right over them or doesn't kill you before burrow is finished (which is, ridiculously enough, a T2-Upgrade... -.-°)
if i was going for a commentator feel i would say terrible terrible mistakes ha ha ha
yes the 5 roach rush strat works wonders on greedy ignorant T and P players. it punishes all T and P players who think they are bullet proof till they decide to push out.
but your right about playing T and P. when ever i off race with them i feel as if im playing SC2 on normal speed. and there is nothing better then winning a TvT and having the other player say "you'll never get good newb," then messaging them that your offracing ha ha.
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OP has a well written post, but not a very well thought out one. I am not going to elaborate on exactly why his argument was flawed, and I am not going to waste other people's time with listing everything that is wrong with the balances because they are well documented in many other threads on TL.
What I will bring up is the fact that everyone agrees SOMETHING must change. The game is far from balanced, and the general consensus among higher level players is that Zerg has the largest handicap out of the three races. Whether or not patch 1.1 will help these imbalances is something we can not predict.
Another thing I want to bring up is the fact that everyone has different interpretations of what "imbalanced" really means.
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United States11637 Posts
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EPT
