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some ppl still think that blizzard don't play the game or listen to player feedback.
seriously, HSM is heavily nerfed right now - but there was a point where it was completely imbalanced and internal testing alone showed that it needed a drastic change. didn't 'mr. terrible terrible damage' say that terran players were just massing ravens and being unbeatable?
when something is gamebreakingly overpowered then you nerf it hard and then gradually implement changes (like the removal of the fusion core pre-requisite) to see when it feels right.
this takes time. people whining about game balance less than 2 months after release are pretty naive and probably noobs to the online multiplayer gaming scene.
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The reaper nerf is fine, people will still be able to mass reapers, it's not the build time that's important it's the cost of them. The patch is just nerfing 7 rax or 10 rax reaper bunker rushes. There has been plenty of shifts in the races, Protoss are starting to do really good vs terran recently. The only patch difference that will really have an effect vs P is tanks vs zealots, which isn't really a huge deal because tanks aren't supposed to beat zealots anyways, you need support units to deal with them. Blizzard has done a LOT of homework and they are working really really hard to balance the game, they have 999999999999999x more info than your personal statistics, sorry man but you don't know any better than blizzard. The Patch is directed towards helping zerg vs terran, which I believe it will do a good job of doing, without messing up TvP too badly, which at the moment is quite balanced. Also the 5 second zealot nerf will be good for T because noobass P cheese is really strong. I don't know what this stupid pawn analogy is but blizzard has buffed and nerfed many units in the past, the easiest way to balance is to nerf things that are overpowered though and you are crazy to think otherwise. Your list of "things that look patchy" makes no sense, you basically just complain about some units ( units that are actually really good, corruptors are really good in certain situations, and PF's are borderline overpowered and I wouldn't care at all if they got nerfed ) without providing any reasons or change suggestions. Marauders cannot lose stim, it would completely break TvP that is a horrible idea. Carriers / archons / motherships are also rarely used because they are tier 3 units and the game doesn't go late that often at the mid diamond level because every single player just allin cheeses. Lots of P's are starting to use carriers vs T, they are really good agaisn't terran as are motherships, and blizzard said themselves that archons aren't supposed to be amazing, they are just something for HT's with no energy to make.
This seems like a big whine thread without any really good ideas... sorry
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I hate how people say things like it has only been x months from release. SC1 didn't have cash tournaments 1 month after its release, not even years after release.
When money is on the line you cannot wait months.
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Reapers are just too much because of the seamless transition to muraders.
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On September 07 2010 23:34 ltortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 23:21 TLOBrian wrote:On September 07 2010 23:06 ltortoise wrote:On September 07 2010 23:01 TLOBrian wrote:
The marauder might need to lose stim. Absurd. If the marauder lost stim, it would COMPLETELY BREAK TvP. Completely. Protoss would simply win the game once they got Colossi or Templar. End. It's already a close, balanced matchup. If you gave a huge nerf like that to the marauder, there would be nothing you could do to stop the onslaught of second tier Protoss. And the problem people have with the Reaper, Brian, is that it's only useful in one specific build in one specific matchup, or for scouting. THAT'S IT. It's a broken unit. Just "nerfing it" isn't really good enough. It needs to be REVAMPED. A straight nerf and it will just end up as a unit that never gets used, ever. People don't seem to be using their brains very much in this thread. 1) Maybe make some tier 2 units? Ghost which have OP emp, Tanks which have OP siege mode, helions which have OP blue flame for zealots. 2) Marauders shrug off storm like no tomorrow. 3) The fact that you can LOL STIM and take down 4 collossi with a couple volleys and then kite the rest of the army with concussive shells guaranteeing your retreat is bullshit. 4) The matchup is not close to balance in any way with marauders having stim AND concussive shells. One of them needs to go, or have a huge drawback to making it balanced. 30 HP every stim for marauders maybe, or every other hit slowing, or even the marauder cannot move after firing a volley with concussive shells. Something along those lines to make it so you cannot mow down half a protoss army if they make the wise decision and try to retreat. You simply CANNOT retreat against a bio terran now, It's like here, heres two upgrades for less than 200/200 that BREAKS the game. The combination of stim AND concussive shells on the marauder makes them BROKEN. END OF STORY. IN EVERY MATCHUP. When you can drop 4 of any unit thats not tier 3, well a unit more effective at killing bases than a tier 3, and have to worry about your entire base being wiped out, that makes me a sad sad panda. 5) God forbid the terran has to actually position his army or get vikings against collossi, which come two at a time from a building that is easily produced and cheapily doubles its production capacity with a simple addon that doesn't take that much time to build. What the hell? You can't possibly watch or play much TvP. Marauders do not "shrug off" storm. Storm RAPES all forms of bio. It's a giant AoE attack that takes massive chunks of HP out of large quantities of units. Also, nothing is so simple as "vikings counter colossi." Are we even playing the same game? The game is about composition, not "UNIT X COUNTERS UNIT Y." When people make colossi, they typically PROTECT their colossi with blink stalkers. I can't just go up and kill the colossi with my vikings unless their micro sucks. And now I'm supposed to mass tanks and hellions, as well as vikings, in addition to my bio ball with medivacs? I can't make everything. Day9 talks about people who make these kinds of comments and laughs. It's like you think I can just have all the units all at once. Gas limits my compositions greatly. The more marauders I have, the less tanks, medivacs, and vikings I can have. And how is EMP "overpowered." A ghost costs 150 gas. That's A LOT. EMP uses a lot of energy. I don't even MAKE ghosts vs protoss generally, because the good tosses use their storms ASAP, and never ball their templar up. It takes all of 5 clicks to make your templars cost one EMP each, and that's assuming you can even get close enough to EMP them. It's not like people put their templar right at the front of their army and say "emp me please!" Being cutesy and trying to get a cloaked ghost up close is also a joke. Furthermore, once the Protoss has the amulet, a templar has a storm immediately upon being warped in. Good luck EMP'ing it in the 5 second window before they cast a storm. Do you watch tournaments? Terran does not have a huge win rate vs Protoss. There are perhaps more Terrans in the top 5 or so of tournaments because of the simple number advantage (TvZ is imbalanced and PvZ is not, so more tosses get knocked out by zergs than terrans). TvP is not a one-sided affair. It's the most balanced matchup in the game IMO. There are LOADS of viable Protoss openings and Terran openings, lots of interesting ways to build your armies, and everything has an accessible counter. But sure, a Terran who has massed up ghosts, medivacs, vikings, siege tanks, and marauders might not have a counter. INFINITE GAS TERRAN! WOOOO
Never said you needed to have all the units at once.
Never said you'd have infinite gas.
Woo I'm going to assume so I can make a post which I think is right so I can be right because I'm right and the only thing that matters is being right, right?
If you make collossi, I make vikings, or more marauders with stim. What's easier to make? Vikings or Collossi?
If you make Templar, I make ghost. Whats easier to use and make? Templar or ghosts?
If you just have a heavy Zealot/stalker army, I'm going to be making Hellions, marines, and marauders. Whats easier to use and make? Zealots or Hellions? Stalkers or marauders?
All I'm saying is, that the Terran units that can be used to nullify advantages from the protoss units are cheaper, easier to use, and generally are more useful in the matchup early game to late game. Collossi and high templar are expensive to tech up to and to get. Terran upgrades and spells do way more and are cheaper than ANY OTHER RACES SPELLS AND UPGRADES IN THE GAME.
I'm not right, It's my opinion. I'm not going to 'argue' anymore.
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On September 07 2010 23:21 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 21:39 okrane wrote:On September 07 2010 19:30 Acritter wrote:
Let's try taking a different tack in terms of "balance", OP. To be precise, let's throw balance out the window and say that what's important is that the game is fun. Right now, the game isn't fun for many Zerg players. It isn't fun to have your base raped by Reapers and be forced to play perfectly to counter it. It isn't fun to have to prepare for a thousand and one harassment and early pressure strategies. It isn't fun to manage an excellent economy and have your army killed by much simpler compositions with much lower control. From my one-game experience as Terran, I can also say that it isn't fun to just mass Marauders and win, but I'm not experienced enough with them to make serious judgment calls.
In order for Starcraft II to succeed, it needs to be played for a long time. In order for it to be played for a long time, it needs to be fun and interesting to watch. 5rax Reaper is anything but. The thing that made BW such a fucking INCREDIBLE game was that all races were fun and interesting to watch. You watch ZvT in BW, it's pressure with lings into counterpressure with MM ball into counterpressure with Mutas into counterpressure with Science Vessels into an endgame with Defilers, Cracklings, and Ultras. Every race has its period of aggression, and they can always be aggressive back with a little bit of Muta harass or an MM push into a third. That's pretty exciting. SC2 ZvT? 1rax Reaper aggression into 3rax Reaper aggression into 5rax Reaper aggression with an expo into 5rax Marauder aggression possibly into counterpressure with Mutas, and over half the time the games don't get past that point. That's BORING. Having all the core decisions and initiative lie with one player is a recipe for dull, solitaire-esque games. That needs to be fixed. This post should have his own thread. Can't believe everyone rambles about hard to grasp stuff like "balance" and misses the essential point summed up in a gem like this post. Respect to you sir, for putting it thus nicely. indeed a good post. the game is very one sided in most matchups atm. not necessarily from pure balance point of you but from whos in control/aggressive. while this ofc is still related to balance,maps etc i think blizzard just fucked up with some of the dynamics between the races. for example ZvP. in broodwar gateway units were very limited in power early on. the P had to fear the Zs tech. goons were horrible against mutas, no robo bay no lurker detection, no storm/speed and you cant take on hydras. now the 3 basic gateway units do perfectly fine against pretty much all Z can do. stalker+sentry has no prob with mutas in a straight fight,lurkers are gone and their substitute banelings are a non issue, evrything Z has till hive except the hydra is "ok" at best vs the most basic gateway spam. P can stay aggressive the whole game. P doesnt have to fear anything (hydras get HARDcountered by collosus aclick, mutas get HARDcountered by phoenix rightclick spam) and its just a survival test for the Z till he gets ultras out which then stomp pretty much evrything the P has(if the P doesnt have tons immortals+storm. ) similar thing in TvP where T doesnt really fear anything P has and just spams units into the enemys base cause their most basic units just stomp/do very well against most of P units. add vikings to hardcounter collosus and we have a similar situation like in ZvP . again P has to survive till he got storm+energy upgrade. then he can stomp like evrything T has (if the T doesnt have tons of emp and gets most/all templars) add the lack of real challenging/unique micro,the ability to mass a ton of units from 1-2 bases,the small unbalanced map and you have the boring one sided games we have now. sure its possible to balance the game around such gameplay(and the actual race powers arent that much different). but it just isnt fun when the matchups lack dynamics and one race is just in survival mode for 90% of the game.
I believe this is a more important point to the whole 'balance' discussion. Most people focus on 'balance' in the sense of whether two sides are evenly matched, where both have almost equal opportunity to attain victory. Let's call this 'naive balance'.
However, these posters are highlighting something else: 'Power balance'. 'Power' in this case is the ability of a side to dictate the pace of the game and the strategic choices of the enemy.
It is possible to achieve 'naive balance' without having 'power balance'.
The OP is completely right in the sense that, it is possible for a Z in SC2 ZvT to hold off reapers, hold off helions, hold off cloaked banshees and transition into the mid game. Continue to hold off the bio/mech push and eventually win the game with mass mutas/broodlords/ultras. The win rate could be a perfect 50% and we have achieved our 'naive balance'.
But the balance of power is heavily skewed towards the T. T almost always has the initiative.
Cast your eye back to SCBW ZvT.
On September 07 2010 19:30 Acritter wrote:
It's pressure with lings into counterpressure with MM ball into counterpressure with Mutas into counterpressure with Science Vessels into an endgame with Defilers, Cracklings, and Ultras. Every race has its period of aggression, and they can always be aggressive back with a little bit of Muta harass or an MM push into a third. That's pretty exciting.
He's right. It is pretty exciting. Because the 'power balance' continually shifts throughout the game.
Maybe the OP is right. ZvT is completely balanced now, in the 'naive balance' sense. But it definitely does not have the interesting changes in power dynamics that characterize all the SCBW matchups. THIS is what Blizzard needs to fix.
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On September 07 2010 23:58 TLOBrian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 23:34 ltortoise wrote:On September 07 2010 23:21 TLOBrian wrote:On September 07 2010 23:06 ltortoise wrote:On September 07 2010 23:01 TLOBrian wrote:
The marauder might need to lose stim. Absurd. If the marauder lost stim, it would COMPLETELY BREAK TvP. Completely. Protoss would simply win the game once they got Colossi or Templar. End. It's already a close, balanced matchup. If you gave a huge nerf like that to the marauder, there would be nothing you could do to stop the onslaught of second tier Protoss. And the problem people have with the Reaper, Brian, is that it's only useful in one specific build in one specific matchup, or for scouting. THAT'S IT. It's a broken unit. Just "nerfing it" isn't really good enough. It needs to be REVAMPED. A straight nerf and it will just end up as a unit that never gets used, ever. People don't seem to be using their brains very much in this thread. 1) Maybe make some tier 2 units? Ghost which have OP emp, Tanks which have OP siege mode, helions which have OP blue flame for zealots. 2) Marauders shrug off storm like no tomorrow. 3) The fact that you can LOL STIM and take down 4 collossi with a couple volleys and then kite the rest of the army with concussive shells guaranteeing your retreat is bullshit. 4) The matchup is not close to balance in any way with marauders having stim AND concussive shells. One of them needs to go, or have a huge drawback to making it balanced. 30 HP every stim for marauders maybe, or every other hit slowing, or even the marauder cannot move after firing a volley with concussive shells. Something along those lines to make it so you cannot mow down half a protoss army if they make the wise decision and try to retreat. You simply CANNOT retreat against a bio terran now, It's like here, heres two upgrades for less than 200/200 that BREAKS the game. The combination of stim AND concussive shells on the marauder makes them BROKEN. END OF STORY. IN EVERY MATCHUP. When you can drop 4 of any unit thats not tier 3, well a unit more effective at killing bases than a tier 3, and have to worry about your entire base being wiped out, that makes me a sad sad panda. 5) God forbid the terran has to actually position his army or get vikings against collossi, which come two at a time from a building that is easily produced and cheapily doubles its production capacity with a simple addon that doesn't take that much time to build. What the hell? You can't possibly watch or play much TvP. Marauders do not "shrug off" storm. Storm RAPES all forms of bio. It's a giant AoE attack that takes massive chunks of HP out of large quantities of units. Also, nothing is so simple as "vikings counter colossi." Are we even playing the same game? The game is about composition, not "UNIT X COUNTERS UNIT Y." When people make colossi, they typically PROTECT their colossi with blink stalkers. I can't just go up and kill the colossi with my vikings unless their micro sucks. And now I'm supposed to mass tanks and hellions, as well as vikings, in addition to my bio ball with medivacs? I can't make everything. Day9 talks about people who make these kinds of comments and laughs. It's like you think I can just have all the units all at once. Gas limits my compositions greatly. The more marauders I have, the less tanks, medivacs, and vikings I can have. And how is EMP "overpowered." A ghost costs 150 gas. That's A LOT. EMP uses a lot of energy. I don't even MAKE ghosts vs protoss generally, because the good tosses use their storms ASAP, and never ball their templar up. It takes all of 5 clicks to make your templars cost one EMP each, and that's assuming you can even get close enough to EMP them. It's not like people put their templar right at the front of their army and say "emp me please!" Being cutesy and trying to get a cloaked ghost up close is also a joke. Furthermore, once the Protoss has the amulet, a templar has a storm immediately upon being warped in. Good luck EMP'ing it in the 5 second window before they cast a storm. Do you watch tournaments? Terran does not have a huge win rate vs Protoss. There are perhaps more Terrans in the top 5 or so of tournaments because of the simple number advantage (TvZ is imbalanced and PvZ is not, so more tosses get knocked out by zergs than terrans). TvP is not a one-sided affair. It's the most balanced matchup in the game IMO. There are LOADS of viable Protoss openings and Terran openings, lots of interesting ways to build your armies, and everything has an accessible counter. But sure, a Terran who has massed up ghosts, medivacs, vikings, siege tanks, and marauders might not have a counter. INFINITE GAS TERRAN! WOOOO Never said you needed to have all the units at once. Never said you'd have infinite gas. Woo I'm going to assume so I can make a post which I think is right so I can be right because I'm right and the only thing that matters is being right, right? If you make collossi, I make vikings, or more marauders with stim. What's easier to make? Vikings or Collossi? If you make Templar, I make ghost. Whats easier to use and make? Templar or ghosts? If you just have a heavy Zealot/stalker army, I'm going to be making Hellions, marines, and marauders. Whats easier to use and make? Zealots or Hellions? Stalkers or marauders? All I'm saying is, that the Terran units that can be used to nullify advantages from the protoss units are cheaper, easier to use, and generally are more useful in the matchup early game to late game. Collossi and high templar are expensive to tech up to and to get. Terran upgrades and spells do way more and are cheaper than ANY OTHER RACES SPELLS AND UPGRADES IN THE GAME. I'm not right, It's my opinion. I'm not going to 'argue' anymore.
This post just shows that you are completely ignorant of the matchup and perhaps the large portions of the game. People like you shouldn't even be allowed to post their opinions on TL about these kinds of topics.
I already explained that ghosts don't even counter templars unless the Protoss player puts their templar in a tight little ball, moves them to the front of their army, and then politely asks in chat for the Terran to please EMP their templar. I wish this would happen more, but frankly it doesn't so I don't make a lot of ghosts even if templars are on the field. Please read posts before replying.
Again, just because I make some vikings doesn't mean the colossi are magically "countered." Blink stalkers are a natural fit with colossus, and they can very easily snipe vikings. When I get into these situations usually it comes down to: "THE BEST PLAYER WINS."
There is no secret magical abusive strategy in TvP that I can do to get consistent wins against people of greater skill than myself. Typically speaking if I'm consistently raping a protoss, it means they are just a worse player than me. Usually they have less APM, worse micro, worse multitasking, and bad macro. Maybe not all of that, but some combination for sure.
Nobody of any notoriety has claimed that TvP is imbalanced. Nobody. Why? Because it's a balanced matchup. Watch more tournaments. Watch more showmatches. Players of similiar skill have close win rates against each other.
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Day 9 Daily 172 really shows that a reaper opening against Zerg is not imbalanced.
EDIT: But then again, I don't believe in inbalance.
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The problem with ANY balance changes is that player balance, that is when the community balances the game by evolving the metagame, devising new strategies, finding new timings etc etc, is such a complex process.
Some timings are very very hard to find, and it could take a long time before they are discovered but when you change the game balance you erase all the work that has already been done because all timings change. If the balance of the game is constantly changing through blizzard meddling that will actually result in an inability for players to balance the game out since you can never get the really deep timings that you got in broodwar that were the result of a long long time of metagame evolution.
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this takes time. people whining about game balance less than 2 months after release are pretty naive and probably noobs to the online multiplayer gaming scene.
Alright, seriously, how many months is it going to take? Balance issues were obvious the first week of release, and now we have tons of (Terran) players spouting "It's too early to tell! It's only been 1 week/month/2 months/a year!/wait until I'm in Diamond!"
Get over it. Terran is imba. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll become a better player and stop being carried by your race.
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I really think that "the game is still evolving" argument is pretty defeasible as the game might still be pretty young but there assumably never has been a more active scene in a rts. There are about 2 money tournaments a day, top players are quickly switching to pro-status and thus train 6 and more hours per day and there is also a widespread rts-knowledge as many peope have been following bw and wc3 for countless years. So because of that a set of standard strategies now have mostly settled and we are likely to see small refinemts in the matchups but surely no more magical counters to 4Gate All-in or MMM.
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On September 08 2010 00:32 Grimjim wrote:Get over it. Terran is imba. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll become a better player and stop being carried by your race.
Ugh. I don't even like this statement. To be ACCURATE and PRECISE we would say that TvZ is imbalanced. Specifically, Terran has an advantage over Zerg during the early game. Blanket statements like "Terran is imba" is just incorrect. It would be correct if TvP was also in favor of T... But it isn't...
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The problem with reaper harass and 2 gate openings are that they are extremely easy to do yet really hard to defend. It shouldn't be like that. Whether that is a problem due to the maps or actual balance is still up in the air.
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- Reapers are meant to be a harass unit. I can understand Blizzard's intent, but the siege damage they do is absolute overkill to an already very useful unit. Why should 4 or 5 reapers absolutely destroy a spinecrawler? For a unit that does so much for the cost, zerg should at least be able to build some static defense to counter it.
- I absolutely agree with the zealot build time nerf. This isn't a zealot is OP problem, its a zergling is UP problem.
- Maps are a little imbalance, but lets be realistic... Blizzard isn't going to restructure the way the maps are.
- I can somewhat agree with the Ultralisk nerf. On the other hand, they take very long to get (way longer than any other massive unit.) I don't see why they can't have a little bit over the top damage.
- Absolutely agree with the siege tank nerf. I think it needs to be nerfed more to be honest.
- In beta and maybe the first couple weeks of release I thought Psi storm was a little UP, but I've seen some devestating play since then, and would absolutely not touch the spell right now.
- Neural Parasite is awful. Maybe castable while burrowed and a 20 second increase would help
- Corrupter could attack a little faster I think.
- Marauders are just all around too good. They already attack pretty slow, so an overall damage nerf would suffice.
- Planetary fortress is already seeing some offense play in higher level games. The splash damage should just be removed entirely.
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Korea (South)824 Posts
On September 07 2010 15:16 Wolfpox wrote:
Perscienter, I think you're the one overreacting, not Blizzard.
Quickly spreading creep and being masterful with a Queen is your solution to fast Reapers? All you have to do with Reapers is run and gun. Creating a creep tumor means that you lose 4 extra larva! Having to ruin your macro in order to spread creep early, in order to effectively hold off an extremely easy to execute rush strategy -- how is that fair? It's easy for Terran to block their ramp on almost every ramp, and most players do it by default.
This is the point ruining completely your post, you obviously never tried it yourself. It looks easy buti t's hard to pull off without backfiring you hard at the first minimal mistake you can do ; losing even 2 , 3 reapers or so early on can shift the way the game is going dramatically.
About those changes really, even if the increased build time for reapers is ok, the tank nerf has nothing to do here, you were hardly seeing them in TvP, in TvT well, marines die anyway, and in TvZ zerg got so much mobility they're not really a problem since zergs realise mutas are good (which I've always screamed) and that their mobility has to be used against this
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Countering reapers isn't as hard as many people think.
Then why do the worlds #1 Zergs keep losing to it?
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On September 07 2010 14:51 Perscienter wrote:
Siege tank nerf vs. light and unarmored:
My essay implies of course that this is unnecessary. It also doesn't make sense. These units should be blasted by the siege tanks all the more.
OP wants to buff siege tanks. Who's in favour of this?
*silence*
*burst of laughter*
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On September 08 2010 00:59 sob3k wrote:Then why do the worlds #1 Zergs keep losing to it?
Reapers hard counter Zerglings.
Reapers out-range and outrun Roaches and Queens.
They're too strong early game since Zerg has no counter to it.
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Hi i'm Unkk and i am a semi terrible player. Up until i played sleep deprived yesterday and lost 7 or 8 games in a row, i was a 950ish protoss player i diamond. Why i open up with the fact that i am not that great of a player is because, well, im not. I am way higher up in the ladder then i myself think i should be, and probably the biggest reason for this is because of one matchup, which is PvZ.
Before i say anything, i have the two maps that i'd guess zerg performs the best on thumbed down(scrap station and that desert map that takes 8 hours to walk around to the other guys base) simply because im an aggressive player. Now, my best matchup is without a doubt PvZ, and i only have one build for this MU which is 4 warpgate timing push with +1 weapons, with this i win about half my PvZ games straight up during the push, the other half i cripple the zerg so badly that i can just double expand and macro him to death 5 - 10min later. It's pretty much 4 warpgate A-move and win. I have no stats but i very rarely lose to a zerg, even 1200 1300 zergs have a very very hard time handling this push.
Why is this? Well, i didnt play tons of BW, but i did play a little. And as of now it feels that A) The maps are quite small, early pressure is very easy B) Can't really explain it but it feels like the zerg has less units early on but you have more, compared to BW.
These two things just makes early pressure on zerg the easiest thing in the world, 3-4 zealots from a 2 gate does such incredible amounts of damage its silly, even if i kill 0 drones and his expo goes up unharmed, i still made him produce 10+ zerglings, so thats 5 drones he wont have. And if they overcomit to zerglings its pretty much a free win right then and there since 2 zealots and one sentry can hold a ramp vs lings for just about forever.
Will the CD increase on warpgates help zerg? No it won't, 4 warpgate will just become 5 warpgate without sacrificing much, the + zealot build time will help against the very early pressure of 3-4 zealots, and this i think might be the biggest change. Since those early zealots does so much damage and forces the zerg to build so much stuff he doesnt want to build.
ALso on the terran issue, only thing i'd change really is marauders, make conc shell cost more or remove it alltogether. Stim i think is too vital to remove or they won't have a place later on in the game.
Maybe some inconsisten nonsense ramblings here by a bad player, but it's how i feel after a 8 hour reading bender, college ftw!
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On September 07 2010 23:42 hoovehand wrote:
some ppl still think that blizzard don't play the game or listen to player feedback.
seriously, HSM is heavily nerfed right now - but there was a point where it was completely imbalanced and internal testing alone showed that it needed a drastic change. didn't 'mr. terrible terrible damage' say that terran players were just massing ravens and being unbeatable?
when something is gamebreakingly overpowered then you nerf it hard and then gradually implement changes (like the removal of the fusion core pre-requisite) to see when it feels right.
this takes time. people whining about game balance less than 2 months after release are pretty naive and probably noobs to the online multiplayer gaming scene.
What you don't to understand is the concept of alot of top gamers playing sc2. It wont take as long as BW or wc3 to develope the best strategys.
There are the best players of bw, wc3, c&c and other games playing sc2 right now.
It wont take such a long time to discover for the best strats and builds for each race.
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EPT
