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Hikari
1914 Posts
When I first started playing sc2 I am not very satisfied with the armor-type system. Light armored units are rare and they more or less "counter" each other (hellions, reapers), while armored units usually have bonus damage against other armored targets. Un-typed targets (ie: archons/queens) you can count with 1 hand. I expect blizzard to breach this gap in future expansions where we might have armored anti-light and light-antiarmor units. | ||
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Bear4188
United States1797 Posts
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
No need imo. Keep it as is. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
On September 11 2010 05:47 Piy wrote: It does feel a little tough when Marauders can snipe a nexus so fast, but I'm not willing to call it imbalanced yet. It's not like two void rays can't snipe buildings pretty damned quick, too. Actually, faster than 4 marauders! Four marauders + medivac cost 500/200. They do ((10 + 10) - 1) * 4 damage per attack, add stim and the cooldown is 1, so 76 DPS. Two void rays cost 500/300. They do (25 - 1) * 2 damage per attack, with a cooldown of .6, so 80 DPS (fully charged) Yes, they take time to charge, but the medivac has to unload, so it evens out IMO. Food for thought: 8 zerglings with 0 upgdrades do (5 - 1) * 8 damage with a cooldown of .7, so ~46 DPS to buildings (!!!). That doesn't seem like much, but it only costs 300/0, and don't Zerg's have the biggest gas problems of all races?. Of course without the upgrade overlords are slow as hell though, but still food for thought. With +1, two overlords full of lings are dishing out 115 DPS, with the modest cost of 600/0. I'm starting to think a lot of the complaints are stemming from the popularity of marauder drops. Other races can do similar things for similar costs. | ||
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Pyre
United States1940 Posts
I did somes tests on a nexus with 1-0 upgrades and stim 4 Marauders killed a nexus in about 13 seconds 8 marines killed a nexus in about 12 seconds. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:02 Ballistixz wrote: marauders are the only unit that rly rapes buildings followed by the ultra. immortals dont rly kill buildings all that fast unless u have a mass of them. and even then they dont kill it as fast as stimmed marauders. Even low immortal counts rip through bunkers absurdly quickly, it's just that Terran can usually get a reasonable number of repairing SCVs. But an unprepared Terran will lose bunkers/depots in an extremely short time to the first few immortals. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
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ltortoise
633 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:02 Ballistixz wrote: marauders are the only unit that rly rapes buildings followed by the ultra. ... Marines kill buildings faster then Marauders. Do the math. | ||
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Kazang
578 Posts
On September 11 2010 05:55 Hikari wrote: Removing the armored attribute away from buildings might make it too difficult to break certain turtle configuration. Standard toss wall with double gateway or terran rack+factory wall off might be a lot stronger than it is today. I think a solution might be to slightly buff the health of buildings. A spire with 600 health gets sniped by 4 stimmed marauder doing 19dps in 8 seconds... When I first started playing sc2 I am not very satisfied with the armor-type system. Light armored units are rare and they more or less "counter" each other (hellions, reapers), while armored units usually have bonus damage against other armored targets. Un-typed targets (ie: archons/queens) you can count with 1 hand. I expect blizzard to breach this gap in future expansions where we might have armored anti-light and light-antiarmor units. I agree about the HP boost, 600 hp for a spire really is quite low. Considering how relatively easy drops and surprise attacks are from any race that is drop in a bucket. Taking extra damage from hard hitting units does nothing to help that. However I think it is unlikely you will see "counter" units like light armour unit with a bonus against armour becasue we aren't playing rock, paper, scissors. But you will see armoured units with some disadvantage against light units like Immortals are not very good against marines or zerlings, marauders are disadvantaged against zealots and zerglings, and so on. Armoured units with bonus damage to light units would be too much of a "hard counter" and starcraft isn't really about that. | ||
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:05 ltortoise wrote: It's not like two void rays can't snipe buildings pretty damned quick, too. Actually, faster than 4 marauders! Four marauders + medivac cost 500/200. They do ((10 + 10) - 1) * 4 damage per attack, add stim and the cooldown is 1, so 76 DPS. Two void rays cost 500/300. They do (25 - 1) * 2 damage per attack, with a cooldown of .6, so 80 DPS (fully charged) Yes, they take time to charge, but the medivac has to unload, so it evens out IMO. Food for thought: 8 zerglings with 0 upgdrades do (5 - 1) * 8 damage with a cooldown of .7, so ~46 DPS to buildings (!!!). That doesn't seem like much, but it only costs 300/0, and don't Zerg's have the biggest gas problems of all races?. Of course without the upgrade overlords are slow as hell though, but still food for thought. With +1, two overlords full of lings are dishing out 115 DPS, with the modest cost of 600/0. I'm starting to think a lot of the complaints are stemming from the popularity of marauder drops. Other races can do similar things for similar costs. the big difference is void rays are pretty much useless except for voidray rushes, while marauders are part of the standard terran army anyway... (yes this matters hugely) | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:06 Pyre wrote: I wouldn't matter if they changed it. Marine drops would just become more common place. I did somes tests on a nexus with 1-0 upgrades and stim 4 Marauders killed a nexus in about 13 seconds 8 marines killed a nexus in about 12 seconds. Yeah, but Marines are easier to kill by Warping in Zealots next to them, get rocked by a Photon Cannon or two, die to Psi Storm defense quickly and take longer to come out of the Medivac. You've got a much easier time of repelling a Marine drop than a Marauder drop. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:11 Jameser wrote: the big difference is void rays are pretty much useless except for voidray rushes, while marauders are part of the standard terran army anyway... (yes this matters hugely) I don't agree with this statement. Why can't a void ray be a part of the protoss army? Everybody jizzed their pants when Terrans started keeping their banshees as a part of their main army when the harassing phase was over, to fantastic effect. I see no reason why Protoss can't do that with void rays, especially if there are a lot of marauders on the field. Keep the void rays in back, firing down at the front line. They can do LOADS of damage... | ||
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:13 ltortoise wrote: I don't agree with this statement. Why can't a void ray be a part of the protoss army? Everybody jizzed their pants when Terrans started keeping their banshees as a part of their main army when the harassing phase was over, to fantastic effect. I see no reason why Protoss can't do that with void rays, especially if there are a lot of marauders on the field. Keep the void rays in back, firing down at the front line. They can do LOADS of damage... because starports can be used for many other units that benefit the terran army (medivac, raven, reactionary vikings etc) stargates can only build phoenix and void rays and as such are a much bigger investment. (not counting BCs and carriers, although here too BCs are clearly superior to carriers) | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:16 Jameser wrote: because starports can be used for many other units that benefit the terran army (medivac, raven, reactionary vikings etc) stargates can only build phoenix and void rays and as such are a much bigger investment. (not counting BCs and carriers, although here too BCs are clearly superior to carriers) ...? Stargate is also easier to get to, and phoenix have many uses, such as countering ALL Terran air if massed (due to their incredibly high hp and fantastic speed). I don't understand your points. | ||
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:18 ltortoise wrote: ...? Stargate is also easier to get to, and phoenix have many uses, such as countering ALL Terran air if massed (due to their incredibly high hp and fantastic speed). I don't understand your points. I don't even know why I expect more than low silver leaguers on TL anymore... sigh... anyway marauders feel too much like wc3 units (very strong and focused on a certain damage type) | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:20 Jameser wrote: I don't even know why I expect more than low silver leaguers on TL anymore... sigh... anyway marauders feel too much like wc3 units (very strong and focused on a certain damage type) What kind of post is this? Now you are insulting my skill? Well, I'm not silver league. Want to play some time? PM me. | ||
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Nizaris
Belgium2230 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:13 AyJay wrote: If buildings were not armored it would make no sense. I mean Command center having less armor than siege tank? :o gameplay > making sense Buildings go down too quick from maras, and i'm a terran player ;p | ||
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LundiZ
Sweden39 Posts
-> Marauder nerf please. | ||
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