On June 20 2010 00:10 Melt wrote: ritalin only works if you have ADHD, otherwise it has a quite contrary effect and is used often if you have to stay awake for a long time.
Sounds like it's having the same effect on ADHD and those without...it makes them concentrate more easlily....I have an ADHD diagnosis and have been on all of these drugs, they made me hyperfocused and energetic, I definitely couldn't sleep for a while after taking them. Isn't this the same thing people taking them for studying or SC are going for?
That assumes that you (and others) are correctly diagnosed. ADHD is believed to be the most over-diagnosed affliction in the world and doesn't even meet a number of the standards for the DSM, but managed to get in anyway. There's quite a bit of controversy involved with ADD/ADHD.
Sure, but whats not controversial is that these drugs work, and that they are safe for the people being prescribed them.
On June 20 2010 02:30 BillClinton wrote: To those people arguing about negative long time effects, do you have any case studies proving these "assumptions"? It sounds like a bromide "drugs are bad", isn't it a question of classification? what about caffeine et cetera..
neuroscience is pretty young. i guess you just need to wait and see.
I would never take drugs to help me with gaming. Simply because i find it unnatural, and because of the fact that i do not, and will not, take gaming that seriously. Ever.
If i ever feel like I'm getting sloppy or something, i take a break. Before every gaming session, i go for a 30+ minute run, and that gives me great concentration and focus.
As for tournaments, i think any kind of pharmaceutical stimulant should be banned. From what i read in this thread, it clearly gives you an advantage over an opponent who's not on the shit.
On June 19 2010 23:39 Rekrul wrote: ive played SC on it too and it wasn't good, i kept becoming too focused on micro or something to remember to macro lol
Yeah, I don't see how Adderall could really be beneficial for a game that requires multi-tasking.
For FPSes it probably helps, although I recall at most CPLs CS players were more likely to be baked out of their mind or hungover, than to be ultra focused. Plus energy drinks are huge there, and I can't imagine that it plays well with a bottle or 12 of Bawls.
On June 20 2010 02:36 sob3k wrote: Sure, but whats not controversial is that these drugs work, and that they are safe for the people being prescribed them.
The drug companies said that about the amphetamines and anti-depressants that were prescribed to huge of the female population during the 1950s.
I took them from about age 8 until this year (senior year of high school. ADHD, lol). I have noticed since I stopped taking them (I started to hate the way they made me feel and found i no longer needed them to concentrate) that I actually seem to be better at any games I play. I took them before I played SC so I can't comment on how it affects that, but when I played WoW when using them I tunnel visioned a lot and my teammates always died because I couldn't focus on healing them and keeping track of enemy movement/casting etc. Stopped taking them and improved a good bit.
Anyway, yeah, risks of taking them are quite high so I'd avoid it (unless you like cardiac issues 20-30 years too early).
Its just a placebo effect. Lots of people will feel like they should be doing better, so they do. I actually do need it to go about my schooling, and I've played with and without it. Does not make a real difference. I felt weird playing without it at first, then once it stopped feeling weird, I was doing just as well as I always do. People just trick themselves into thinking it makes a difference. Or they hear about other people using it and do too.
Just look at how some people will spend hundreds of dollars on a keyboard or mouse and think that they are in a better position to win than they were before the purchase. Us as a competitive gamers are always looking for something to help give us a en edge. Don't get me wrong there. I think an average nice mouse and an average nice keyboard will make a difference over total garbage, but you all get what I mean. All that spending tons of money or taking ADD medication does *really* does, is give us the confidence that we are better.
EDIT: Just to add, I think it is also worth noting that people who recently started taking ADD medication will usually have a hard time being as spontaneous or creative or "naturally flowing" as they were before the medication. ADD medication makes people a bit robotic and inexpressive, and it certainly hurts someone's play in a game like Starcraft. The most important skill to have in RTS games is your own cunning, strategic creativity, and overall tactics and strategy sorta stuff. You can't just mindlessly macro and win games.
Overall, as someone who has taken this medication for the past 8 years, I think the argument that aderall can make someone a better gamer is really stupid. I do not doubt that the confidence and placebo effect will make people perform better, but its not like taking steroids and being able to hit a ball farther in baseball. Even as someone who needs ADD medication to do well in school, my play in BW/SC2 is unchanged. Whether I was taking it or not, once I am used to which ever circumstance it is, I do just as well as the other circumstance. I was a 1700 platinum player before this whole Diamond nonsense and the matchmaking going screwy, so its not like I am just bad to where any big change makes no difference.
I also believe that we as a community have an obligation to be more "clean" and not encourage this sort of thought. "What kind of prescription medications can I take to make myself do better at Starcraft?" is a really scary mindset. Its no surprise that the Halo 3 community would get caught up in this sort of thing, but just look at those kids. The TeamLiquid community should be way above that sort of thing.
On June 20 2010 02:30 BillClinton wrote: To those people arguing about negative long time effects, do you have any case studies proving these "assumptions"? It sounds like a bromide "drugs are bad", isn't it a question of classification? what about caffeine et cetera..
To answer this: In canada several years ago, there were several cases of premature (as in, teenagers) heart attacks/cardiac issues linked to Adderal use. I'm sure some googling will find you further info on this.
edit:
On June 20 2010 05:19 Mohdoo wrote: EDIT: Just to add, I think it is also worth noting that people who recently started taking ADD medication will usually have a hard time being as spontaneous or creative or "naturally flowing" as they were before the medication. ADD medication makes people a bit robotic and inexpressive, and it certainly hurts someone's play in a game like Starcraft. The most important skill to have in RTS games is your own cunning, strategic creativity, and overall tactics and strategy sorta stuff. You can't just mindlessly macro and win games.
Overall, as someone who has taken this medication for the past 8 years, I think the argument that aderall can make someone a better gamer is really stupid. I do not doubt that the confidence and placebo effect will make people perform better, but its not like taking steroids and being able to hit a ball farther in baseball. Even as someone who needs ADD medication to do well in school, my play in BW/SC2 is unchanged. Whether I was taking it or not, once I am used to which ever circumstance it is, I do just as well as the other circumstance. I was a 1700 platinum player before this whole Diamond nonsense and the matchmaking going screwy, so its not like I am just bad to where any big change makes no difference.
I also believe that we as a community have an obligation to be more "clean" and not encourage this sort of thought. "What kind of prescription medications can I take to make myself do better at Starcraft?" is a really scary mindset. Its no surprise that the Halo 3 community would get caught up in this sort of thing, but just look at those kids. The TeamLiquid community should be way above that sort of thing.
This precisely mirrors my thoughts. The way ADHD medications make you feel is NOT good - It gets to the point where you have to force yourself to be expressive or excited about anything. It's a completely dreadful feeling to experience and really quite not worth going through.
I also have to express agreement with the rest of what's quoted - especially the last paragraph.
I hope you find you don't need it soon - the shit's terrible.
On June 20 2010 02:30 BillClinton wrote: To those people arguing about negative long time effects, do you have any case studies proving these "assumptions"? It sounds like a bromide "drugs are bad", isn't it a question of classification? what about caffeine et cetera..
To answer this: In canada several years ago, there were several cases of premature (as in, teenagers) heart attacks/cardiac issues linked to Adderal use. I'm sure some googling will find you further info on this.
This is all true. When you go in to be perscribed, your doctor will tell you about all of this. The way that some medications work is that they just get your blood pumping. This can be bad for your heart. Higher doseages means bigger impact. And the worst part is that people who take ADD pills for the sake of feeling faster or more aware or any of those sorts of things, tend to also be the kind of person who starts taking more and more at a time. Its similar to Cocaine in a way. It is easily addictive and can have really negative consequences if used with the wrong mindset. Some people start out thinking "This stuff can make me better and faster" then develop a mindset of "The more I take, the better I am. I myself know someone who fell into that sort of thing, and it was a tough journey for him to beat his addiction. This of course is not the case for everyone. But you guys gotta be careful.
On June 20 2010 02:30 BillClinton wrote: To those people arguing about negative long time effects, do you have any case studies proving these "assumptions"? It sounds like a bromide "drugs are bad", isn't it a question of classification? what about caffeine et cetera..
To answer this: In canada several years ago, there were several cases of premature (as in, teenagers) heart attacks/cardiac issues linked to Adderal use. I'm sure some googling will find you further info on this.
This is all true. When you go in to be perscribed, your doctor will tell you about all of this. The way that some medications work is that they just get your blood pumping. This can be bad for your heart. Higher doseages means bigger impact. And the worst part is that people who take ADD pills for the sake of feeling faster or more aware or any of those sorts of things, tend to also be the kind of person who starts taking more and more at a time. Its similar to Cocaine in a way. It is easily addictive and can have really negative consequences if used with the wrong mindset. Some people start out thinking "This stuff can make me better and faster" then develop a mindset of "The more I take, the better I am. I myself know someone who fell into that sort of thing, and it was a tough journey for him to beat his addiction. This of course is not the case for everyone. But you guys gotta be careful.
Yep. Probably the biggest reason that I stopped taking it is that I became aware of the fact that I could feel my heartbeat constantly. I can't really explain it, but it was very unsettling and, coupled with the fact that it made me fucking robot, made me decide to stop medicating.
On June 20 2010 00:10 Melt wrote: ritalin only works if you have ADHD, otherwise it has a quite contrary effect and is used often if you have to stay awake for a long time.
Sounds like it's having the same effect on ADHD and those without...it makes them concentrate more easlily....I have an ADHD diagnosis and have been on all of these drugs, they made me hyperfocused and energetic, I definitely couldn't sleep for a while after taking them. Isn't this the same thing people taking them for studying or SC are going for?
That assumes that you (and others) are correctly diagnosed. ADHD is believed to be the most over-diagnosed affliction in the world and doesn't even meet a number of the standards for the DSM, but managed to get in anyway. There's quite a bit of controversy involved with ADD/ADHD.
Sure, but whats not controversial is that these drugs work, and that they are safe for the people being prescribed them.
His argument is that the drug had the effect on him that people without ADHD get, therefore there's no difference between the two. However, given the expected level of over-diagnosis, it's completely possible he doesn't actually have ADHD or has a very mild form. That the drugs do something I have no argument against. Whether or not people taking them actually should be is another story.
EPT
