Ultralisks waste of money? - Page 4

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

March 28 2010 18:46 GMT

#61

They aren't the same unit as in BW... I totally feel for the loss of the ultra-ling combo in SC2... but really... there is other stuff you can do...

If you can distract your opponent with an attack, I'd imagine 2 of these in a an SCV or Probe line would just, like blink them all out in a few swings. That splash damage is going to really hurt.

More of a tactical unit now I think, mixed in with a large army for a good shield vs melee. Broodlords are really better for heavy assault I think... and Ultras wont be a unit to mass in endgame unless you're already WAY ahead.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

March 28 2010 18:57 GMT

#62

On March 28 2010 19:59 Sfydjklm wrote:
the main problem with ultras is that lings are garbage.

This, really.

Requiring the speed and armor upgrades really isn't that different from SC1. The real difference is that by hive tech, you would have been pumping the ranged upgrade all the way, rather than the melee one in SC2.

G3nXsiS

United States656 Posts

March 28 2010 19:00 GMT

#63

The ultralisk is one of the best units in the game dude. I don't know what you are talking about when you say they are weak. Maybe it is from the lack of experience with them?

In any case while yes they are not gonna be a key unit for you to win the game they are definitely a finnishing unit used to finnish off your opponent after crippling him. 200 gas does not seem like alot to me to be honest if you can get 3 bases running ultras should be no problem for you. Depending on the situation of course I prefer going broodlords as they can attack from both air and ground.

My suggestion is to go roaches, hydras and banelings with infestor and then stop producing hydras and make more banelings. With that you have fungal growth and the banelings softening up his bio army and static defenses, the roaches as meat shield and support units and the ultras as the killing blow.

Savio

United States1850 Posts

March 28 2010 19:12 GMT

#64

I used ultras against P recently and it worked out pretty well. Part of that is that I had saved up a butt-ton of minerals and gas, had 4 bases with saturated workers on minerals and gas while he had only 2.

But still, he had a large army and mine was small but right as he started moving out, my ultras popped out and changed it all. I will say though that immortals >>> Ultras unless you way outpower him.

The only other time I got an ultra, it was right before I died and I made 1 un-upgraded ultra who proceeded to single handedly slaughter 32 lings and almost 2 hydras (1 hit away).

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

See the kill count above

+ Show Spoiler +

Ultras absolutely dominate small massable units due to huge AOE damage. It took like 5 swipes to kill 32 lings.

BeMannerDuPenner

Germany5638 Posts

March 28 2010 19:13 GMT

#65

On March 29 2010 04:00 G3nXsiS wrote:
The ultralisk is one of the best units in the game dude. I don't know what you are talking about when you say they are weak. Maybe it is from the lack of experience with them?

In any case while yes they are not gonna be a key unit for you to win the game they are definitely a finnishing unit used to finnish off your opponent after crippling him. 200 gas does not seem like alot to me to be honest if you can get 3 bases running ultras should be no problem for you. Depending on the situation of course I prefer going broodlords as they can attack from both air and ground.

My suggestion is to go roaches, hydras and banelings with infestor and then stop producing hydras and make more banelings. With that you have fungal growth and the banelings softening up his bio army and static defenses, the roaches as meat shield and support units and the ultras as the killing blow.

200 gas is ALOT esp since your recommended roaches,hydras and infestors all cost gas too.

have fun having 2k minerals and 0 gas.

also why the hell would anyone spend the tech and the 2 upgrades just too have a mediocre finishing unit when he could have mass mass more core units or the almighty "ur fucked" broodlord way faster and be more effective in battle?

there is no reason to get ultras at all. thats the prob. cause evry other choice is better. and they are easily countered. but u cant counter broodlords so easy. and u def cant counter 20 more hydras/roaches knocking at ur door.

i have never seen or playd a game where ultralisks made any difference. but i have seen many many games where a z with 4 vs 2 bases almost lost cause he used ultras instead of pumping useful units.

and even if they were decently buff they are still super situational cause the lings(which u have to build on mass if u dont want to end up on 3k+ minerals) are crap compared to sc1 and tultras are countered super easy

Funchucks

Canada2113 Posts

March 28 2010 19:20 GMT

#66

On March 29 2010 03:57 TheYango wrote:

Show nested quote +

This kind of thing is why I am still not a fan of splitting upgrades between melee/ranged, infantry/mech, air/ground.

There's enough tech inertia with specialized production facilities, tech buildings, and special ability research without having your general upgrades apply to only certain classes of units.

zealing

Canada806 Posts

March 28 2010 19:23 GMT

#67

ultras have splash and can burrow which >>> BW ultras. You say "omg teching and upgrades" wtf did you do in BW? get your ultras and start upgrades? no you had builds like 3 hatch muta into lurker contain getting your +1 cara for your ultras at the end of the game. ultralisks just haven't been figured out a good strat yet, like MOST of the units in SC2 cause its the beta and these things will take time.

Wretched

Australia121 Posts

March 28 2010 19:24 GMT

#68

agree. ultras don't fit in with the tech viable patterns at all.

synapse

China13814 Posts

March 28 2010 19:25 GMT

#69

I find adding a few ultras to the normal midgame army as a transition to lategame to be very helpful... the Ultras get targeted first by your opponent, which allows the rest of your units to move in (hydra/baneling/infestor).

Makes Fungal Growth + Baneling on lategame army much easier IMO.

oaax

Norway38 Posts

March 28 2010 19:25 GMT

#70

They have their own little niche. Like vs mass ravens as damage soakers. But in my opinion they are just too big atm. And easily countered by Thors. They are only viable in open terrain because of their size the enemy can just hide behind buildings or mineral lines and pick them off easy with ranged with minimal losses. The splash damage is fine and all but whats the use if you rarely can get them all attacking at the same time? I cry for BUFF.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

March 28 2010 19:27 GMT

#71

On March 29 2010 04:20 Funchucks wrote:
This kind of thing is why I am still not a fan of splitting upgrades between melee/ranged, infantry/mech, air/ground.

There's enough tech inertia with specialized production facilities, tech buildings, and special ability research without having your general upgrades apply to only certain classes of units.

From a balance standpoint though, it's much easier to work with these kinds of upgrades. Having split upgrades allows you to fine-tune the strength of specific units/unit groups at specific points in the game, without having as much concern for how it would adversely affect other units.

Plus it's hard to rationalize from a flavor perspective how a generalized "armor" upgrade happens to all at once boost infantry, vehicle, and air armor all at once. And single, sweeping upgrades just wouldn't feel like Starcraft.

Chen

United States6344 Posts

March 28 2010 19:58 GMT

#72

On March 29 2010 04:20 Funchucks wrote:

Show nested quote +

that "inertia" is only applicable early/midgame. late-game those things are almost negligible. imagine in TvZ if you could instantly switch from SK Terran to 3/3 Tanks as soon as zegs started pumping ultras. I like the fact that you actually have to invest something to do tech switches, especially in the case of zerg, who need all of 1 building to switch all their production

USn

United States376 Posts

March 28 2010 20:00 GMT

#73

I don't get people saying you should mix a few in as support. considering how much you have to spend to get them going that doesn't make sense. If you're going to burn a gazillion minerals on the required tech you want to maximize the return on your investment. The more you make the easier it is to justify. Only get a few... and it's very hard to do so...

Karas

United States230 Posts

March 28 2010 20:00 GMT

#74

[B]

edit: another quick thought. Perhaps let them just fucking stomp over forcefields? "Oh you made a little kinetic barrier? That's cool, I'm 20 stories tall and weigh 40 tonnes. I'm going to walk through it now."

Might be a little gimmiky, but you could give teh ultra an ability called "unstoppable". The ultra can not be slowed or immobilized by any spell, effect. This would include forcefields.

Probably the first thing to do would be to work with their core stats. More health, more armor, more speed, more damage, lower cost, lots of things you can do to work with it.

Squallcloud

France466 Posts

March 28 2010 20:20 GMT

#75

Aren't ultra needed for tanking? I think in BW progamers only upgrade carapace so melee upgrade isn't really necessary. At least in BW ultra aren't damage dealers, they're here to take the hits with their 5 armor.
Why the same not possible in Sc2?

Senix

Germany149 Posts

March 28 2010 20:24 GMT

#76

On March 29 2010 05:20 Squallcloud wrote:
Aren't ultra needed for tanking? I think in BW progamers only upgrade carapace so melee upgrade isn't really necessary. At least in BW ultra aren't damage dealers, they're here to take the hits with their 5 armor.
Why the same not possible in Sc2?

Stimmed Marauders and Immortals thats why. The problem I see is that the new counter system does not work with the original BW units.

ArvickHero

10387 Posts

March 28 2010 20:24 GMT

#77

Looks to me they just need to find a way to make a melee-based army for zerg viable. Ultra/Ling/Infestor sounds like it'd be fun to watch

Funchucks

Canada2113 Posts

March 28 2010 20:25 GMT

#78

I am never going to get over the fact that a column of charging ultralisks has to stop to attack one single tiny marine standing in its way. Or, for that matter, that zerglings can't climb over stationary tanks, or that zealots chopping away at units with laser swords have no effect on their ability to fire accurately at distant targets.

Unit trample was demonstrated all the way back in Dune 2, by tanks and spice harvesters. I don't know what Blizzard has against it.

Maybe in Starcraft 3 we'll get units grappling, shoving, climbing, and stomping on each other. Until then, however well balanced any oversized melee unit is, it's not going to provide the sense of terrible destructive momentum you'd expect.

cartoon]x

United States606 Posts

March 28 2010 20:29 GMT

#79

ultras should be a good meat shield for infestors. if you can get off some mind controls on thors / immortals, that should help keep the ultras alive.

Cheerio

Ukraine3178 Posts

March 28 2010 20:47 GMT

#80

vs T ultra is countered by maradeurs very badly, and maradeur is like the most used unit in terran army.
vs P they are ok unless P has many immortas, but broodlords are better.

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