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Baa?21244 Posts
On March 29 2010 05:25 Funchucks wrote:
I am never going to get over the fact that a column of charging ultralisks has to stop to attack one single tiny marine standing in its way. Or, for that matter, that zerglings can't climb over stationary tanks, or that zealots chopping away at units with laser swords have no effect on their ability to fire accurately at distant targets.
Unit trample was demonstrated all the way back in Dune 2, by tanks and spice harvesters. I don't know what Blizzard has against it.
Maybe in Starcraft 3 we'll get units grappling, shoving, climbing, and stomping on each other. Until then, however well balanced any oversized melee unit is, it's not going to provide the sense of terrible destructive momentum you'd expect.
Very true. I'd be very content if Ultralisks could just ignore, say, light units and just trample them or something :3
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Ultralisks are simply horrible right now.
People suggested to take a look at dimagas game against morrow? Are you kidding me?
5 (1 golden minerals) bases vs. 3 for the majority of the game. Of course in favor of Dimaga.
And yes, instead of finishing the game 10mins earlier with broodlords he finally ran the terrains marine/siege tanks (with only 2 armor upgrades on the marines, nothing for the tanks) with 3-3-3 utralisks. Wow! What a prove -.-
It has already been said why they suck so hard but once again I want to mention how incredible useless this unit is against a Protoss army containing few Immos -.-
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On March 29 2010 04:58 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2010 04:20 Funchucks wrote:On March 29 2010 03:57 TheYango wrote:On March 28 2010 19:59 Sfydjklm wrote:
the main problem with ultras is that lings are garbage. This, really. Requiring the speed and armor upgrades really isn't that different from SC1. The real difference is that by hive tech, you would have been pumping the ranged upgrade all the way, rather than the melee one in SC2. This kind of thing is why I am still not a fan of splitting upgrades between melee/ranged, infantry/mech, air/ground. There's enough tech inertia with specialized production facilities, tech buildings, and special ability research without having your general upgrades apply to only certain classes of units. that "inertia" is only applicable early/midgame. late-game those things are almost negligible. imagine in TvZ if you could instantly switch from SK Terran to 3/3 Tanks as soon as zegs started pumping ultras. I like the fact that you actually have to invest something to do tech switches, especially in the case of zerg, who need all of 1 building to switch all their production
If you want to switch to air and be equal in upgrades, it's "only" 1200/1200, almost half what a gas geyser has, which would be enough for 5 carriers.
I wouldn't call it negligible, but just a slight cost decrease would improve things significantly(and more than slight on the toss shield upgrade).
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Ultras really bad. In any situation with ultras you would be better served just making other units.
SC2 = Very favored towards mass ranged unit game
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On March 29 2010 05:25 Funchucks wrote:
I am never going to get over the fact that a column of charging ultralisks has to stop to attack one single tiny marine standing in its way. Or, for that matter, that zerglings can't climb over stationary tanks, or that zealots chopping away at units with laser swords have no effect on their ability to fire accurately at distant targets.
Unit trample was demonstrated all the way back in Dune 2, by tanks and spice harvesters. I don't know what Blizzard has against it.
Maybe in Starcraft 3 we'll get units grappling, shoving, climbing, and stomping on each other. Until then, however well balanced any oversized melee unit is, it's not going to provide the sense of terrible destructive momentum you'd expect.
That's a great idea. Nukes should also have 10 times the radius and deal 5k damage at the center and graded damage outward. Then we'll have the sense of terrible destructive momentum we expect.
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I just used them to win my last two games. I think it is possible that the reason they seem to suck is that everyone waits until extreme late game to get them. It would be like if you got unupgraded collosus 15 minutes into the game and then complaining that they die to tank fire really quickly. Well that's true, but that doesn't mean collosus aren't powerful.
The two games in question I rushed to hive in a zvz for roach regen, which worked gangbusters, then started pulling out the ultras, since it was only another 150 for the cavern.
The last one, I teased roach until I could see what the opponent was going for, mass stalkers. The roaches held their ground against the stalkers pretty well, and left more than enough time for ultras to come out. From then on it was ultra ling with a smattering of zerglings. His immortals were tough but the zerglings really make them waste shots.
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I once had 10+ ultralisks in a game I had already won, but even with ling support, then got absolutely STOMPED vs a MMM army. I'm talking about a typical ball you see (no siege tank support or shit). All the guy did was stim + focus fire + run a bit back because marauder slowdown stopped them. I'm talking about ~15 mauraders ~20 marines and a few medivacs vs 10 ultras and around 20 lings. Yes the ultras eventually won but I only had like 2 left. There's no way to possibly flank because of how the goddamn maps are right now... the entire maps are all choked up. There is no open field... this was on Desert Oasis btw.
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no they are not. so many people freak out when they see them.
get the armor upgrade and put them in the front of your army they will be targeted leaving your ranged units to pwn others
-Zabestrial
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saying ultras suck because "marauders can easily focusfire them down" is soo retarded my head almost explodes.... its kind off what they are supposed to be doing, take dmg...duerp
edit: they are fine, no change needed.
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marauder doesnt slow them down.
Either way, ultras just suck for the cash and effort youve to put into them. If lings were even somewhat better, and ultras wouldnt bug so big time (allow them to walk over units with size of a rine/lings for example, but not stalker/infestor/hydra) they wouldve been a lot better.
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On April 07 2010 05:17 arnold(soTa) wrote:
saying ultras suck because "marauders can easily focusfire them down" is soo retarded my head almost explodes.... its kind off what they are supposed to be doing, take dmg...duerp
edit: they are fine, no change needed.
Too bad that they die in 2 volleys of like 15 marauders.
Marauders are the root problem of everything!
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Ultralisks are sort of what archons were in SC1. They aren't meant to be spammed but are good aoe and tanker.
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The reason why ultralisks is because they lack dark swarm versus terran and the existence of immortals in PvZ.
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I've seen ultralisks tear through armies, but if cost is any consideration at all (that is, you have fewer than 5 bases and/or < 100 drones), I'd much prefer Broodlords.
Ultralisks only demolish things when you have a ton of money (so you can get a huge number of them), and a ton of time (so you can get all of those upgrades out before you are forced to fight). But if you're that far ahead that you can get such a huge econ advantage and have the time, it's probably easier to just go Broodlords and win a lot earlier.
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On March 28 2010 19:48 Voyager wrote:
Starcraft 2 will never get you a job, it will never make the girl of your dreams love you, it will never bring you a refreshing beverage if you are thirsty, or make your kids stop crying in the middle of the night.
If you think the ultralisk looks cool, and are fun to play and run around with, build one....build a couple.
because at the end of the day, it's a game, and games are about having fun.
User was warned for this post.
if only starcraft 2 would do those things, i would marry it.
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i think they should come with amour or speed upgrade w/o research
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I think the real issue is that ultras are great....
Once they are 3/3 and have speed and plating upgraded.
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Morrow put it well you have to have creep to get the ultras about the map.
They won't win you the game the second they come out as they are a very late game unit that need upgrades & creep to get into position. They are great mixed in for drops/nydus sneaky attacks to tank for dps units and take the odd undefended expansion.
I think used with a small dps force to snipe expansions early in the upgrades as they are very good too siege buildings even without upgrades.
You definately seem to need to transition into them as just like in SC1 if you spam Ultra asap with no sense you run yourself dry when you could have held and been solid playing for a longer game. I think Chill did some videos explaining his transitioning and style from lurker/ling to ultra etc.
They will definately find a way into SC2 games every now and then but broodlords are so much better then Guardians where they they are viable as you already get Corruptors vs Collosus and any terran air shenanigans.
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On March 28 2010 19:48 Voyager wrote:
Starcraft 2 will never get you a job, it will never make the girl of your dreams love you, it will never bring you a refreshing beverage if you are thirsty, or make your kids stop crying in the middle of the night.
If you think the ultralisk looks cool, and are fun to play and run around with, build one....build a couple.
because at the end of the day, it's a game, and games are about having fun.
User was warned for this post.
Thanks for sharing I guess...
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On March 29 2010 06:31 FabledIntegral wrote:
I once had 10+ ultralisks in a game I had already won, but even with ling support, then got absolutely STOMPED vs a MMM army. I'm talking about a typical ball you see (no siege tank support or shit). All the guy did was stim + focus fire + run a bit back because marauder slowdown stopped them. I'm talking about ~15 mauraders ~20 marines and a few medivacs vs 10 ultras and around 20 lings. Yes the ultras eventually won but I only had like 2 left. There's no way to possibly flank because of how the goddamn maps are right now... the entire maps are all choked up. There is no open field... this was on Desert Oasis btw.
Try flanking.
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EPT
