EPTUltras are effective vs light units but it just sucks that low level units like marauder and sentry are hard counters for something that takes you a ton of time / resources to get.
wra.
Ultralisks waste of money? - Page 3
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MMMig
United States80 Posts
Ultras are effective vs light units but it just sucks that low level units like marauder and sentry are hard counters for something that takes you a ton of time / resources to get. wra. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On March 28 2010 22:30 Zoler wrote: Have you even played the beta? Utralisks are massive units, they cannot be slowed by marauders. Play the game, until then stay out of the SC2 strategy forums. This goes to everyone. As a member of TL.net who HAS contributed to the Starcraft 2 beta discussion (e.g. here or here or here or here) without playing the beta, I'm well aware that not having played the game places important limitations on the kind of stuff you can talk about without making a fool out of yourself. However, if you understand the unit stats and have watched replays/videos, and are aware of the limitations your understanding of the game has, then you can add to the discussion. So, I respectfully ask you to take your head out of your ass. Asking people to stop making useless posts is cool. Asking people to go away because they haven't been lucky enough to get into the beta is not. | ||
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Innovation
United States284 Posts
On March 28 2010 22:30 Zoler wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Show nested quote + On March 28 2010 20:11 Asta wrote: I guess vs T it's just marauders that are really the problem because they are a hard counter (especially with slow, you could theoretically take ultras out of the game completely with good micro) and they are almost always around. And vs P the main problem is that the lings melt away in seconds and the ultras are alone (where they aren't that bad, but not good enough). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have you even played the beta? Utralisks are massive units, they cannot be slowed by marauders. Play the game, until then stay out of the SC2 strategy forums. This goes to everyone. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As a member of TL.net who HAS contributed to the Starcraft 2 beta discussion (e.g. here or here or here or here) without playing the beta, I'm well aware that not having played the game places important limitations on the kind of stuff you can talk about without making a fool out of yourself. However, if you understand the unit stats and have watched replays/videos, and are aware of the limitations your understanding of the game has, then you can add to the discussion. So, I respectfully ask you to take your head out of your ass. Asking people to stop making useless posts is cool. Asking people to go away because they haven't been lucky enough to get into the beta is not. Agreed... fine to dissagree but lets be nice about it, thanks  | ||
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SevenAteNine
126 Posts
they arnt that endgame unit that pwns everything that you MUST get | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
Did they record that shit with a pair of scissors or something? | ||
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StayFrosty
Canada743 Posts
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muzzy
United States640 Posts
They are a situational unit, but I'm OK with that. I don't think we need to see every unit in every game. It should be a "Oh wow" moment when you see Ultras. | ||
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Meepman
Canada610 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
1.Ultras cost 200 gas, same as in BW. But SC2 is a different game resource-wise. Gas is much more scarce in SC2 than it was in BW. For example, in BW, the general rule was to start pumping ultras once you got 4 bases worth of gas. Well in SC2, 4 bases worth of gas is 8 geysers, which requires twenty-four drones dedicated to gas. In addition, mined out geysers stop working completely, unlike in BW where they simply return less per trip. 2. Hydras & roaches are both very strong all-purpose units, so ranged upgrades are very good in SC2. Also, due to gas scarcity, going for 3 evo chamber upgrades is not really viable. 3. Ultras are hard-countered more easily in SC2 than they were in BW, especially in ZvT. Marauders, Thors, & Immortals all counter ultras, and I don't think I've ever seen an ultralisk in a ZvZ match. 4. Ultras are really only good once they get all of their upgrades. However due to reason #2, most people don't bother getting melee upgrades, instead getting ranged upgrades. 5. The broodlord is available at Hive, and doesn't require upgrades to be great, unlike the ultralisk. 6. No dark swarm in SC2 means that zerg's late-game melee isn't as strong as it was in BW. | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
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Gedrah
465 Posts
On March 28 2010 19:48 Voyager wrote: Starcraft 2 will never get you a job, it will never make the girl of your dreams love you, it will never bring you a refreshing beverage if you are thirsty, or make your kids stop crying in the middle of the night. If you think the ultralisk looks cool, and are fun to play and run around with, build one....build a couple. because at the end of the day, it's a game, and games are about having fun. User was warned for this post. Funny that you say so, because SC2 has gotten quite a large number of people jobs and girlfriends (even if only for 1 night girlfriend) but yeah SC2 never gets me a drink, FUCK. It's more prone to launch a match while I'm up getting one. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
In SC2, there is an interesting new concept with air units. Many of them can only attack air. The Devourer in BW does this as well, but it's not quite as prevalent, since you have to turn mutalisks into them (and it's only after Hive+1 tech). This is a very subtle change that makes a massive difference in battles. Think about a Terran army vs. a Protoss army. Terran has Marines and Marauders, maybe a Ghost or two, and some Vikings. Protoss has Zealots, some Stalkers/Sentries, and a Colossus or two. What happens when these armies a-move into each other? The Vikings devastate the Colossus. It's because they can only attack air. When you a-move them, the only units that they see are the Colossus. This is a big deal in ZvT as well. If you have Corruptors, the only units they see are Medivacs, Ravens, and Vikings. Corruptors also can be transitioned very nicely on-the-fly into BLs which just own ground armies hard. Thinking about ZvT from this perspective, the Ultralisk just seems like the Terran Battlecruiser in BW. | ||
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Cade)Flayer
United Kingdom279 Posts
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Karas
United States230 Posts
1) Tier 1.5-2 provides some nice hard counters to them (Roach, Immortal, Sentry, Marauder). 2) Roaches do the tanking job as well and much sooner. Also you can expect roaches to be more heavily upgraded (since most zerg go ranged upgrades now a days). And of course, you can get organic carapace at hive to make them even better. While I won't say the ultra is useless in the current gameplay we are seeing I don't think they will find heavy use. But SC has had major shifts in gameplay before, and that could cause new unit combinations that then favor teh ultra. | ||
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bendez
Canada283 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
First: They evolved to counter everything that gave them trouble in SC:BW, that is: splash damage for smaller units like lots/rines/goons (kinda) and siege damage to take down building walls which used to give them trouble, the higher min cost just accounts for more DPS/Health. However; T/P evolved as well: -Hard counter units marauders and immortals which are by design only to fight armoured units yet they are so powerful that they are used in pretty much any standard army. Some armies are pure marauder and no marines even when they are fighting light units. (Albeit because of banelings) So Ultras get crushed by armies that have their natural counter. -Gas is much more rare in SC2. That is, you need double drones to get gas so it usually takes players longer to get both of them. SC:BW was often fought with pure gas units like lurker defiler and muta and ultra fit well into that. -In sc:bw (adrenal glands) zerglings had amazing damage but they were too low hp and vulnerable to splash to really get in melee range for long enough, Ultras were the perfect shields and solid units too, zerglings are much less effective in comparison. -Because units like stalkers and marines are pretty weak in general, anti air is not often present in armies. This makes the broodlord a super attractive (corruptors can deal with other air units) choice compared to ultralisk. Guardians were really low health and thus weak to spells such as irridiate and storm, and wraiths took them down fast. Broodlords have lots of health. Also; compare a colossus, the same cost, with an ultra. A colossus can completely turn a battle around if ignored, 1 ultra can just get eaten up by a standard army easily. Colossus' are also faster to tech to. Broodlords also easily change the flow of a game, suddenly you need anti air units which are weak vs ground units in SC2. (Exception: Hydralisks). This 'problem' will only remain so long as marauders and immortals are so powerful and stalkers and marines are so weak. (Relatively.) . | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
So... how do you all propose we change them? What are the real issues causing them to be useless currently? Personally I think they could benefit from two minor changes. Firstly, give them a minor speed boost. Not a huge one, but just enough to let them be a little less sluggish. Secondly, allow them to use their headbutt attack on massive units. An ultralisk is almost as tall as a colossus, and probably has three times the mass. It really shouldn't just swipe at it with those big claws that do surprisingly little damage. Charge head first into it and smack it! Ultras in BW were fantastic tanks. Like stated above, their high armor really defended them against marines and zealots, and their massive HP helped soak up storms. They allow the little angry rabbits known as cracklings to get close and murder everything in sight. One base armor is pretty meh, and fully upgraded an ultralisk has 6 armor. That's fantastic against marines and zealots, but more or less worthless against marauders and immortals. I've seen marauders eat ultras alive these days. Since late game PvZ and TvZ armies rely less on mass marines or zealots, and more on marauders/tanks/colossi, ultras are less effective at soaking up damage. While their splash damage slaughters small units, small units seem to be less present in late game battles where you might actually have access to ultras. The fact that broodlords outshine them in every way is troubling, but imho not the heart of the problem. They should perform different roles. Right now the broodlings spawned from the flying mustaches of doom act as mini tanks, do a little extra damage, and seriously screw up AI. Ever had broodlings land on your marines when you have tanks in your army? It ends poorly for basically everyone involved. Well, those are my thoughts. So, instead of bitching about how OP broodlords are, (and I agree, they're pretty fucking strong), or how shitty and worthless ultras are, let's come up with some ideas/suggestions on what might fix them! edit: another quick thought. Perhaps let them just fucking stomp over forcefields? "Oh you made a little kinetic barrier? That's cool, I'm 20 stories tall and weigh 40 tonnes. I'm going to walk through it now." | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On March 28 2010 19:48 Voyager wrote: Starcraft 2 will never ... make your kids stop crying in the middle of the night. Depends on how old they are. Anyway, I don't think that balancing the endgame units is or should be a priority right now, especially fixing them being underpowered and not worth buliding. You can't balance the midgame tech until you've balanced the early game tech, and you can't balance the endgame tech until you've balanced the midgame tech. The early game units have to balanced to each other, the midgame units have to be balanced with each other and the early game units, the endgame units have to be balanced with everything in the game. Every time you tweak the earlier units to fix balance issues between them, it screws up the balance with the later units, so lategame tech balance is naturally going to be one of the things that gets sorted out last. I'm not seeing a lot of ultralisks, thors, battlecruisers, or carriers, and that's fine by me when units like stalkers and roaches and basic production facilities like reactors are getting tweaked all the time. | ||
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